My number came up on the waiting list... but ADM

[Rated R]

The plan for the Boss 302 was always a two year production run. Everybody knew that as the B302 was previously made in '69 and '70 only. They should not be compared to a Terminator or a 2K Mach 1. Imo they will make more GT350's over a longer time period than the B302's.

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[Cruzinaround]

Not stamping my feet at all but when people make statements such as "sticker" about 15,000 to 20,000 GT350 units to be built over the next few years along with your additional comments suggesting that he is correct then provide all of us with some feedback as to how one or both of you came up with these numbers?

I only say what the claims are happen to be plausible. Based on what we've experienced in the past. GT500's went on far longer than expected. And the Production numbers for the Boss302 were higher than initially quoted. That said...there is precedence to base projections on.

As expected now you are discounting the 2015 model year due to homologation requirements!! :lol:.....

Based on your reasoning they stopped production of the 2015's in the middle of the year just so they could go racing?

Yup that's what they did. Got it in under the gun to officially go racing. As it is still a proof of concept it needs some proving among the various other manufacturer offerings. The car is a reality so it needs some real stats to back up the Ford Performance Division's objective. Before it hits the ground. Building 150 units was for nostalgic reference. Again making a statement for the enthusiasts among us.

Remember it was not me who made these statements based on pure speculation and without any facts to back them up with.

That is how speculation works. More often the correct guesses can be made from what we know of past actions. In this case it's a pretty recent past.

BTW, I can tell you that I am not a spoiled child by any means and am probably close enough in age to be your father. I just happen to have a great passion for the Ford automobile and in particular the Mustang model. It all started back in the 60's when I bought my first Ford vehicle which was a '67 Cougar and then moved over to the Mustang.

:ford:

Okay well then your approach in your writings matches your proclaimed age. You're being stubborn and set in your ways. A very close parallel and a descriptor to spoiled.

Open up a little. If the reception is strong enough then FORD will likely build more. Or Maybe they might build less if they truly learned from their past....They built all those Boss 302's and there are still many sitting on lots waiting for a title...because after all the games dealers played....people found alternatives for a better price, the same goes for the GT500's, I know my dealer is sitting on one for MSRP and it ain't going anywhere...No one is biting. The same will happen here with the GT350's.... Even if they stop making them and cap at 5000 each year then we still might just keep seeing them standing on lots for a year or two afterwards.

Still a reflection of the recent past.

 

[cjgt350]

If Ford had intentions of selling as many GT350's as they could produce then why have they not given more allocations to the dealers? My dealer where I have ordered received only ONE allocation. The general mgr met me the other day and said " oh you are the one everyone is mad at"...me puzzled look..."I have turned at least 12 people away wanting to order a GT350."

Bottom line Ford knows to deliver excitement in a brand or model line set the bar high with a somewhat exclusive offering with a price point that is not easily attainable. Again look at recent history...while productions numbers remain unclear history will repeat itself.

 

[PP0001]

I only say what the claims are happen to be plausible. Based on what we've experienced in the past. GT500's went on far longer than expected. And the Production numbers for the Boss302 were higher than initially quoted. That said...there is precedence to base projections on.



Yup that's what they did. Got it in under the gun to officially go racing. As it is still a proof of concept it needs some proving among the various other manufacturer offerings. The car is a reality so it needs some real stats to back up the Ford Performance Division's objective. Before it hits the ground. Building 150 units was for nostalgic reference. Again making a statement for the enthusiasts among us.



That is how speculation works. More often the correct guesses can be made from what we know of past actions. In this case it's a pretty recent past.



Okay well then your approach in your writings matches your proclaimed age. You're being stubborn and set in your ways. A very close parallel and a descriptor to spoiled.

Open up a little. If the reception is strong enough then FORD will likely build more. Or Maybe they might build less if they truly learned from their past....They built all those Boss 302's and there are still many sitting on lots waiting for a title...because after all the games dealers played....people found alternatives for a better price, the same goes for the GT500's, I know my dealer is sitting on one for MSRP and it ain't going anywhere...No one is biting. The same will happen here with the GT350's.... Even if they stop making them and cap at 5000 each year then we still might just keep seeing them standing on lots for a year or two afterwards.

Still a reflection of the recent past.

Obviously you have your view point and I have mine so time will tell if either one of us was correct or this all ends up somewhere in the middle?

What I do suggest is that for the 2017 model year Ford will have 2 new high performance models coming out namely the Ford GT and in all reality a 50th Anniversary Shelby GT500.

If Ford produces high volume numbers for the 2017 GT350 as you have suggested and then drop those numbers in the mix for the 2017 Ford GT and the 2017 Shelby GT500 50th Anniversary model I just don't see Ford having enough enthusiasts out there with the kind of money that would allow high volume production for the GT350?

I cannot see Ford competing amongst themselves for market share in 2017 with all these 3 high performance models being built in the same model year?

From my standpoint the projected volume production is a dead issue and let's see what history has in store for us regarding this great new car?

PS: I have a buddy looking for a low mileage Boss 302 and if you know of some brand new Boss 302's still sitting on Ford lots with no titles please PM some information so that I can send that information along to him?

:ford:

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

You really need to understand that Ford can build more $60,000 Mustangs than the public would ever consume. It is not how many will be available. It is how many will be purchased. The consumer is driving the bus. Let go of the "limited production" crap as it only pertains to how many they can sell. Ford will build them as long as they sell and as many as they can sell. Some of you appear to believe that Ford is in the business of building this offering in small #s to provide enthusiasts with a collectable item, NOT!

Agreed. Ford is a business, and they're out to make as much as they can. What a Business does. If demand is so hot for a vehicle, they'd be fools not to produce them. Ford is not an exotic car manufacturer.

 

[cjgt350]

What I do suggest is that for the 2017 model year Ford will have 2 new high performance models coming out namely the Ford GT and in all reality a 50th Anniversary Shelby GT500.

If Ford produces high volume numbers for the 2017 GT350 as you have suggested and then drop those numbers in the mix for the 2017 Ford GT and the 2017 Shelby GT500 50th Anniversary model I just don't see Ford having enough enthusiasts out there with the kind of money that would allow high volume production for the GT350?

I cannot see Ford competing amongst themselves for market share in 2017 with all these 3 high performance models being built in the same model year?

:ford:

I agree. If it plays out that way will they produce the GT500's in the same manner as the GT350's with only a finite number 2017 models produced where 2018 is the real production availability. But who knows the Boss 302 was being produced along with the GT500 and it just didn't seem to dilute the demand.

 

[Cruzinaround]

If Ford had intentions of selling as many GT350's as they could produce then why have they not given more allocations to the dealers? My dealer where I have ordered received only ONE allocation. The general mgr met me the other day and said " oh you are the one everyone is mad at"...me puzzled look..."I have turned at least 12 people away wanting to order a GT350."

Bottom line Ford knows to deliver excitement in a brand or model line set the bar high with a somewhat exclusive offering with a price point that is not easily attainable. Again look at recent history...while productions numbers remain unclear history will repeat itself.

Its a projections issue. They can't make any educated guesses until they see what the initial 2016 run will result in. With that behind them they can make better projections on how many more and for how much longer.

It's really a simple concept.

 

[Cruzinaround]

You really need to understand that Ford can build more $60,000 Mustangs than the public would ever consume. It is not how many will be available. It is how many will be purchased. The consumer is driving the bus. Let go of the "limited production" crap as it only pertains to how many they can sell. Ford will build them as long as they sell and as many as they can sell. Some of you appear to believe that Ford is in the business of building this offering in small #s to provide enthusiasts with a collectable item, NOT!

Maybe? But for a hand built in the USA motor it won't be something we will see happen with the GT350 in those numbers...not unless our motors are suddenly being assembled by hand in a China Sweat shop by 9 year old factory workers paid pennies a day.

However once it has proven its point we might see these motors mass produced assembly line fashion for the following 2018 GT's in greater numbers. Specialty Vehicles are usually a proof of concept to introduce things that will be adopted into the consumer based model lineup. The current 2015's Coyote is taking a bit from what was learned from the Boss 302. for example.

 

[cjgt350]

Its a projections issue. They can't make any educated guesses until they see what the initial 2016 run will result in. With that behind them they can make better projections on how many more and for how much longer.

It's really a simple concept.

Trust me the Ford reps know of the demand and they are not giving in. I had that conversation. We are way past the educated guesses. They are receiving direct order demand requests from the dealers beyond their allocations. A sold order is a lock for Ford and more demand of the same from dealers is an easy business decision if your strategy is to sell as many units as possible. So no it is not that simple. If you are talking a F150 then yeah it is simple.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Trust me the Ford reps know of the demand and they are not giving in. I had that conversation. We are way past the educated guesses. They are receiving direct order demand requests from the dealers beyond their allocations. A sold order is a lock for Ford and more demand of the same from dealers is an easy business decision if your strategy is to sell as many units as possible. So no it is not that simple. If you are talking a F150 then yeah it is simple.

That really depends on who's demanding those cars.

Dealerships asking or requesting more allocations based on all the inquiries they're receiving is a high risk for any bean counter to rely on. Simply put if this was how it worked for the GT500 and the Boss 302...then they failed simply because many cars were and are still left sitting on lots.

And they would still need to get all those hand built motors... built in sufficient quantities. So that might require a mass production of the motor...in a way that it is no longer a hand built specialty motor but an assembly line product in which case the production costs would go down. The car should be cheaper as QC would also be a bigger factor.

If the projections were based on true commitments from the actual client base making an advanced deposit to order a car.... they might build fewer than the 5000 they are currently committing to.

Showing interest and inquiring about the car is very different from what happens in the real world. And The bean counters in the commercial strategy area for FORD aren't that naive. They are paid to limit any bleeding on costs. So that's a lot of cars that could be defaulted on if the tire kickers that drove up the demand from the dealers don't commit to buy.

Now if the dealerships are stupid and over commit based on ...let's face it... it would be greedy intentions. Then they would still owe FORD money for delivering on the cars requested and then likely left sitting on a few of them.... Just like we've all seen happen already. FORD has nothing to lose they will still get their money... The dealer is left holding the inventory. But, it will be a costly projection for them.

However, the patient peeps here would certainly benefit from that.

 

[DrumReaper]

Its a projections issue. They can't make any educated guesses until they see what the initial 2016 run will result in. With that behind them they can make better projections on how many more and for how much longer.

It's really a simple concept.

They can't make any educated guesses? Are you joking? They are Ford... they were building performance cars when you were not even a thought. They know what they're doing and it surely isn't as simple and dumb as you elude to. Lol... :lol:

Maybe? But for a hand built in the USA motor it won't be something we will see happen with the GT350 in those numbers...not unless our motors are suddenly being assembled by hand in a China Sweat shop by 9 year old factory workers paid pennies a day.

My '98 Cobra had a hand-assembled motor... It was produced in numbers higher than what's projected with the 350. I don't remember any Chinese labor on that engine... :doh:

However once it has proven its point we might see these motors mass produced assembly line fashion for the following 2018 GT's in greater numbers. Specialty Vehicles are usually a proof of concept to introduce things that will be adopted into the consumer based model lineup. The current 2015's Coyote is taking a bit from what was learned from the Boss 302. for example.

My Lord... you still perplex me with wisdom, or the lack thereof. Of course the current Coyote has grown to adopt parts from the B302 Coyote... that's cause the B302 was a development ground to show off Ford performance. Same with the GT in 2005/6 leading to the GT500 in 2007 and on.

However, one other reason people have failed to mention as to why this car will be limited is because you now pay a gaz-guzzler tax. Do you see that on every Coyote coming across the production line now? Did you see one on the 2012/13 B302's? Did you see one levied on any of the GT500 from 2007-2014? Wise up man... think before you type. This engine won't see daylight in a 2018 GT unless they find a way to make it more fuel efficient. Don't Ferrari's have gas-guzzler taxes and they are lighter than most Fords.

Here.. take a looksee at this...

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b13037.pdf

Do you see any Fords on there? I do see a pack of Ferraris and Masseratis. :frusty: The FPC Voodoo, it appears, is not as efficient as the Coyote... yet the Coyote isn't said to be pumping out 520+ HP either. My B302 get 25-26 MPG at 60mph. I doubt I will see that in my 350R.

 

[cjgt350]

That really depends on who's demanding those cars.

Dealerships asking or requesting more allocations based on all the inquiries they're receiving is a high risk for any bean counter to rely on.

I agree with you if simply these were inventory dealer requests but I didn't say that. I stated SOLD ORDERS which with any manufacturer place those in the highest priority. The SOLD order demand is currently outpacing the dealer allocations from every indication. True the engine being hand built will limit availability in itself and nor will it will be mass produced. My point is Ford is indeed controlling the production numbers following their plan or strategy NOT customer demand as some have suggested just like they have in the past. For anyone to think that is not the case they are just not paying attention.

 

[sticker]

I'm going to wait for the official word from Ford. Then I'll know what's going on...

You do that but here is a little historical enlightenment on the ultimate validity of Fords "official" word.

The late model Mach1s were according to Fords "official" word to be a highly limited run of 3K units. 16,000 units produced over two years.

The late model Shelby GT500s were to be according to Fords official word a limited 2 year run of 3-5K units. 48,000 GT500s over 8 model years.

You can wipe your posterior with Fords "official" word. Its very simple as others here who have observed this stuff over the years have stated. They will build as many vehicles as they can sell.

 

[Spa2k]

So nice chatting with you ... appreciate the attitude and the potential for you knowing what you're talking about someday.

 

[Strokerswild]

Did you see one levied on any of the GT500 from 2007-2014?

Actually yes, IIRC my '07 was slapped with the gas guzzler tax, have the sticker somewhere yet. I believe the '13-'14 cars did not because of the tall gearing Ford installed.

Carry on.

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