UPR Vs. Mishimoto Catch Can? Any other options?

[khaosryder]

At some point ALL DI MOTORS WILL HAVE TO BE BLASTED.

Might have already seen but here is an interesting video from an ex-Ford tech about the very reason we are talking about catch-cans and the problem with ecoboosts and the fact that there is really no approved way to clean the valves :shrug:

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]0irwbwpuEbQ[/MEDIA]"]

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[Irate Swami]

Thanks for resorting to personal insults. Im just trying to pose honest questions in hopes that it results in discussion that helps owners of these cars. As you stated yourself all DI cars will need valves serviced at some point so me trying to stir up conversation on if the UPR can is necessary. Especially if Mishimotos R&D data is accurate. Sure, in theory, the UPR can offers the most protection. But if the amount of fluid you are accumulating by going with the UPR is negligible... Wouldnt the smart money be to put that money towards other parts?

Unless of course you are using an offroad downpipe and are using the UPR can to kill two birds with one stone and drill it out to take care of the smoke problem.

 

[Irate Swami]

I'm inclined to agree on your point about the mishimoto testing. The only thing I'd be curios to know is under what condition they've conducted their tests. If they've spent quite a bit of time under a lot of boost/wot, then I wouldn't worry about using their product since it's almost half the price over here and seems much more simple to install.

If on the other hand they've been driving around like nuns during the test then that's another story I suppose...

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I took the time to read all of mishimotos R&D posts on the catch can and their findings make sense to me.

 

[dragonacc]

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I took the time to read all of mishimotos R&D posts on the catch can and their findings make sense to me.

I don't care what people buy honestly, but if someone asks which one is better the UPR wins. Is it worth the extra cost? That's up to the individual.

Also, that smoke is happening whether you have an off road pipe or not (and some people have had it with the stock dp). I personally don't like the idea of burning oil up in the turbo, so I think it's worth addressing regardless of it being visible or not.

 

[tsunami]

My EB Premium Convertible had a UPR dual valve catch can installed as soon as it came home from the dealership. It now has about 500 miles on it...there was about a teaspoon of clear oil in the can.

 

[Mishimoto]

After a lot of thought I actually decided to go with the Mishimoto Catch Can. I didn't want to have to worry about fitment issues when I upgrade the turbo down the road and it was the cheaper & easier to install of the two options.

Not to mention my car is being delivered in 1-2 weeks so I didn't want to risk the UPR not being here in time to install after reading peoples posts in this thread about issues receiving their product.

Either way, the catch can I am installing now will eventually be replaced by the MAP reservoir/catch can combo once they release it anyways so I figured the Mishi can will be adequate for now.

Thanks for going with our catch can setup! I think you will be very pleased with the results once installed. Looking forward to your feedback!

help me understand how any currently offered catch cans addresse the valve cover vent on the rear passenger side of the engine that feeds into the turbo inlet

the best option I've seen so far is an ecoboost engine dropped into an old SVO where they had the valve cover vented with a small filter rather than pulling the oily vapor into the intake tube/turbo inlet

Great question! We addressed this particular port/line within our initial design process. After testing both this line and the PCV line, we found that no accumulation was generated within the breather line during a variety of driving conditions. This is why we selected to offer our kit with a single catch can in-line with the PCV side of the system. The fluid captured during our testing was quite substantial and featured a large percentage of fuel byproduct.

I went with the UPR dual valve primarily because of the 'boost mode protection' but also the UPR hoses looked more 'professional'. They came with FORD OEM type hose end connectors, the hose ends were 'swagged' to the connectors and the hoses are double covered. Mishimoto hoses look like they were pulled from an auto parts shop and then hose clamped.

I'm inclined to agree on your point about the mishimoto testing. The only thing I'd be curios to know is under what condition they've conducted their tests. If they've spent quite a bit of time under a lot of boost/wot, then I wouldn't worry about using their product since it's almost half the price over here and seems much more simple to install.

If on the other hand they've been driving around like nuns during the test then that's another story I suppose...

Thanks Tsunami! Our testing included a combination of road driving and dozens of dyno pulls. Road driving consisted of pulls in boost as well as normal driving. We don’t exactly take it easy on our shop vehicle, especially when testing our products. The results from our collection tests indicated no actual accumulation from the breather line, even with plenty of time spent in boost.


The lines we include are molded silicone units. These are pre-assembled with clamps onto a factory-style quick disconnect fitting. We wanted to make these as direct-fit as possible with no additional assembly required by our end consumers.

What, you mean there are other colors

Anyways as far as I'm concerned I'll probably be getting a Mishimoto catch can, all the junk it can catch is that much less going through the engine, and it definitely can't be worst than none!

Great! Looking forward to your feedback and results.

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I took the time to read all of mishimotos R&D posts on the catch can and their findings make sense to me.

Thanks for reading through our development progress!
-John

 

[Irate Swami]

I don't care what people buy honestly, but if someone asks which one is better the UPR wins. Is it worth the extra cost? That's up to the individual.

Also, that smoke is happening whether you have an off road pipe or not (and some people have had it with the stock dp). I personally don't like the idea of burning oil up in the turbo, so I think it's worth addressing regardless of it being visible or not.

Way less people have had smoke issues with stock dp than those who are running offroad pipes.

And whether or not a product is worth extra money over another is the exact reason for this thread and for this message board as a whole. There is no reason to take offense when people question things like this because ultimately discussion leads to better products for us, the owners.

 

[dragonacc]

Way less people have had smoke issues with stock dp than those who are running offroad pipes.

And whether or not a product is worth extra money over another is the exact reason for this thread and for this message board as a whole. There is no reason to take offense when people question things like this because ultimately discussion leads to better products for us, the owners.

I'm not offended at all. I stated a fact about the UPR vs Mishimoto catch can. And just because way less people have "visible" problems with the stock DP doesn't mean there isn't still a system not functioning optimally behind the scenes. I guess I'll throw in another reason why "I" feel the UPR can is better, it includes a turn valve to make emptying it easier.

BTW - the Dual valve can alone won't solve the smoke problem, and you can solve it with the Mishimoto can too most likely. You just don't have to buy any additional parts with the UPR setup.

EDIT: And just so people don't think I'm a Mishimoto basher - I'm running their oil cooler and it's a great solution! I just like the UPR product better when it comes to catch cans.

 

[Irate Swami]

I'm not offended at all. I stated a fact about the UPR vs Mishimoto catch can. And just because way less people have "visible" problems with the stock DP doesn't mean there isn't still a system not functioning optimally behind the scenes. I guess I'll throw in another reason why "I" feel the UPR can is better, it includes a turn valve to make emptying it easier.

BTW - the Dual valve can alone won't solve the smoke problem, and you can solve it with the Mishimoto can too most likely. You just don't have to buy any additional parts with the UPR setup.

EDIT: And just so people don't think I'm a Mishimoto basher - I'm running their oil cooler and it's a great solution! I just like the UPR product better when it comes to catch cans.

I completely agree the smoke is still an issue, but i don't think it is nearly as big a problem as people are making it out to be. As we all know it was an issue with the Mazda Speed cars and I still see plenty of those on the road(likely with high miles) doing just fine.

But as far as the valve thing, mishimoto also has a valve for their can you can purchase separately. But I agree its nice that UPR includes them with their can.

 

[bigspoondude]

Way less people have had smoke issues with stock dp than those who are running offroad pipes.

And whether or not a product is worth extra money over another is the exact reason for this thread and for this message board as a whole. There is no reason to take offense when people question things like this because ultimately discussion leads to better products for us, the owners.

People aren't having (as much) smoke issues with factory DP because the cat restricts flow and while it does, it cooks the exhaust. The oil blow-by can be as big as a drop and you will see smoke forever because it takes forever to burn off.

 

[Mishimoto]

Way less people have had smoke issues with stock dp than those who are running offroad pipes.

And whether or not a product is worth extra money over another is the exact reason for this thread and for this message board as a whole. There is no reason to take offense when people question things like this because ultimately discussion leads to better products for us, the owners.

Agreed! We've developed a proven product and presented our results from testing. It is entirely up to you guys to decide which catch can system is best for your needs. So far, we have numerous customers reporting very good results in terms of byproduct accumulation.

:cheers:

I'm not offended at all. I stated a fact about the UPR vs Mishimoto catch can. And just because way less people have "visible" problems with the stock DP doesn't mean there isn't still a system not functioning optimally behind the scenes. I guess I'll throw in another reason why "I" feel the UPR can is better, it includes a turn valve to make emptying it easier.

BTW - the Dual valve can alone won't solve the smoke problem, and you can solve it with the Mishimoto can too most likely. You just don't have to buy any additional parts with the UPR setup.

EDIT: And just so people don't think I'm a Mishimoto basher - I'm running their oil cooler and it's a great solution! I just like the UPR product better when it comes to catch cans.

Thanks Dragon! Nice to hear you are enjoying the oil cooler setup!

 

[jc1804]

both seem like there great in there own rights. I'm also looking to install one & the question I have. Is there "anything" else I need to order for installation? the other comment I would have is both come in north of 200, so why not spend the extra 30 for "overkill"

 

[Mishimoto]

both seem like there great in there own rights. I'm also looking to install one & the question I have. Is there "anything" else I need to order for installation? the other comment I would have is both come in north of 200, so why not spend the extra 30 for "overkill"

I think you may be looking at the MSRP pricing on our website. Keep in mind, our vendors will always have the best pricing on our products. For this particular kit, our vendors should be able to offer pricing at less than $160.

Our kit is a complete bolt-on unit and does not require any additional components for install.

Let me know if I can answer any additional questions!

Thanks
-John

 

[jc1804]

I think you may be looking at the MSRP pricing on our website. Keep in mind, our vendors will always have the best pricing on our products. For this particular kit, our vendors should be able to offer pricing at less than $160.

Our kit is a complete bolt-on unit and does not require any additional components for install.

Let me know if I can answer any additional questions!

Thanks
-John

Thanks John,

ordered from RPM outlet. free shipping 139.50.

will be here 6-3

 

[wmsky33]

OK, I've read through this entire thread and if I understand the EB's PCV system, the Mishimoto CC, and the UPR CC correctly, I believe that there might be some misconceptions on how they work. This is the way I understand it;

The EB's PCV system has 2 vacuum sources; a stronger one (1) that operates only when not under boost that goes from the PCV valve to the intake manifold, and a weaker one (2) that is really only active under boost that goes from the valve cover to the air intake tube.

Mishimoto tested catch cans on both sources and found that the can on (2) collected virtually nothing from the crankcase. So they decided, rightly I believe, to save EB owners money by offering a single CC option for (1) which did catch a lot of crankcase crap.

UPR's dual valve CC kit adds a 3rd vacuum source (3) that is active under boost and is, quite probably, stronger than (2) because its vacuum source is right at the turbo inlet where the air velocity is at its fastest. It's quite possible that (3) will collect more crankcase nastiness than (2), but no testing that I know of has been done to determine this. It's also possible that, even if collects more, the amount could still be negligible.

There, did I get it right.

BTW, I bought the UPR CC because I'm anal, because based on the design of both cans, it has to be at least as good as the Mishimoto, and is possibly, but not provably better.

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