GT350 vs. Z/28

[Sabre]

thePill: I'm glad it worked out but it was not the plan. Too many "what if's" and "maybe's". It only worked because the skill of the driver and car he was driving allowed it.

The plan was to take tires late in the race....even if they had to do it under green...and they would have under green flag conditions, but the yellow fell perfectly (by happenstance) and they were ready to take full advantage of it. They were NOT planning on a yellow to save them...they were fully prepared to pit under green if necessary.

Not sure why you can't read Billy's remarks and understand that.

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[thePill]

So Billy planned to pit under green? That wouldn't have worked out the way it did...

Because that caution is the only reason it turned out the way it did. I think you guys are missing the brass here. He made the best out of it, and chased a useless z28 down.



Not sure why a fistful of you have such hurt feelings. Could it be because none of your arguments hold water?

thePill: I'm glad it worked out but it was not the plan. Too many "what if's" and "maybe's". It only worked because the skill of the driver and car he was driving allowed it.

The plan was to take tires late in the race....even if they had to do it under green...and they would have under green flag conditions, but the yellow fell perfectly (by happenstance) and they were ready to take full advantage of it. They were NOT planning on a yellow to save them...they were fully prepared to pit under green if necessary.

Not sure why you can't read Billy's remarks and understand that.

I'm sorry, if it wasn't for the caution, I doubt the results would have been the same. The caution was the only thing going for Billy and it worked out. It was a long shot that required him to be faster than the fastest car for 30 minutes. I don't need anyone to tell me how great it was. Lucky but not in the cards at the least.

 

[thePill]

The z28 NEEDS the extra liters, it NEEDS the output advantage. It NEEDS a better power to weight ratio and it NEEDS major 3rd Party intervention.

It was based on a sedan... Enjoy your championship. They sure the hell didn't earn it.


I wish you put in the same effort to uncover Chevy's BS. Not one of you have ever disputed Chevy's stopwatch methods at the Ring. I find it odd you feel the need to be precise, then sorta agree with me, then disappear for a week, then come back in with an even less meaningful debate.

Should the z28 be running CTSC when it still has a clear output and PtW ratio advantage? Do you think a 1LE would had done better? Doubt it... Chevy needed power and that's all the z28 is about in CTSC.

Understand pit stratgy? I'm just using the stratgy of the team that won vs. The team that didn't. Unless your saying it was more than pits that led to the z28's narrow victory.

Because that is the major talking point here. All this to avoid the "padded rules" conversation.

I can't take any of this seriously. From a guy that thinks testing in race conditions is a bad thing. Or groups of people that thought the z28 was a race car... I think it's funny the z28 needs a huge power advantage, it shows what the z28 IS NOT.

 

[Sabre]

Its not that complicated, but you seem to have difficulty.

If the Mustang was on the Camaros strategy, they were a 5-7th place car (due to wearing out their tires more than the Camaro) like how they finished the first 2 races of the year. The #15 planned on pitting in the last 30 minutes. *The key fact that you're missing is with just under an hour left in the race, the #6 Camaro had a huge lead (+20 seconds over the #15 Mustang who was running in 6th). On even tires, the Camaro was dominant and pulled away from the #15 and a lot of the field.

The leaders pit and the #15 inherited 2nd. If there was no yellow, the #15 would have pit under green and fell back to 6th, which is where they were running prior to the leaders pitting. The Camaro never really passed the #15 since they were in front of them prior to pitting and still would have been after the #15 pitting. Its an elementary concept of racing and pit stops.

-If there was no yellow for the rest of the race, the #15 (Johnson/Maxwell) would have still been >20 seconds behind the leader and likely would not have finished on the podium, maybe a 4-5th place finish but no one would be talking about this race like no one did about Daytona or Sebring. And the Mustang wouldn't have looked stellar.

-If there was a yellow after the #15 pitted, the camaro's 20 second lead over them would have been erased, and the #15 had the advantage of newer tires and could pass more cars easier.

-Since the yellow came out when it did, it was a perfect situation which gave the #15 the most time to work through the field. That stop under yellow only lost them a couple positions which were regained in the matter of a lap or two.

At the end of the day, there was a very little risk and all reward to do what they did. ThePill further demonstrates his lack of understanding and continues to argue facts, and figures with conjecture. I'm just glad he's an occasional race fan and not working for race teams making calls.

 

[Gudz2015]

it is really fun reading your guys comments but can we bring the topic to the everyday Joe who takes these cars To tracks. you guys are definitely stuck in the race car realm of things and these cars are for most everyday or track enthusiast cars not race cars first off.

 

[traxiii]

Its not that complicated, but you seem to have difficulty.

If the Mustang was on the Camaros strategy, they were a 5-7th place car (due to wearing out their tires more than the Camaro) like how they finished the first 2 races of the year. The #15 planned on pitting in the last 30 minutes. *The key fact that you're missing is with just under an hour left in the race, the #6 Camaro had a huge lead (+20 seconds over the #15 Mustang who was running in 6th). On even tires, the Camaro was dominant and pulled away from the #15 and a lot of the field.

The leaders pit and the #15 inherited 2nd. If there was no yellow, the #15 would have pit under green and fell back to 6th, which is where they were running prior to the leaders pitting. The Camaro never really passed the #15 since they were in front of them prior to pitting and still would have been after the #15 pitting. Its an elementary concept of racing and pit stops.

-If there was no yellow for the rest of the race, the #15 (Johnson/Maxwell) would have still been >20 seconds behind the leader and likely would not have finished on the podium, maybe a 4-5th place finish but no one would be talking about this race like no one did about Daytona or Sebring. And the Mustang wouldn't have looked stellar.

-If there was a yellow after the #15 pitted, the camaro's 20 second lead over them would have been erased, and the #15 had the advantage of newer tires and could pass more cars easier.

-Since the yellow came out when it did, it was a perfect situation which gave the #15 the most time to work through the field. That stop under yellow only lost them a couple positions which were regained in the matter of a lap or two.

At the end of the day, there was a very little risk and all reward to do what they did. ThePill further demonstrates his lack of understanding and continues to argue facts, and figures with conjecture. I'm just glad he's an occasional race fan and not working for race teams making calls.

You guys need to remember that Maxwell qualified the car, and because of that, he must start the race. They do that to get Johnson in the car at the end of the race, because in my opinion he is the fastest driver in the series on race laps, hands down. The theory being that if Maxwell can keep in the hunt (top 3 or 4) in his stint, that Billy will have a good chance to take the win. The Mustang doesn't use tires as fast as the Camaro, no way it does, but they are way faster on fresh rubber, then fall back as they wear with all that weight.

The problem they are having is the only way the Mustangs can keep up with the Chevys is a much superior driver, of which there is only one, Billy Johnson. Maxwell gets caught up in traffic or bumped out of line and falls back too far for Billy to catch up. Without the fortuitous yellow flag and a chance to put on an equalizing set of new rubber, and the field getting closed up behind the pace car. No yellow even with new tires the best #15 could come is 4th or 5th.

Instead if he could have gotten around that Nissan a few laps quicker and he had a chance to win. That Z sure got wide for a couple laps there, didn't it. You could also see how slow the other Camaro got on old (but the same as some other cars) tire at the end. They wear them out pretty quick and might need extra stops on races that go green all the way.

IMHO, If Multimatic had 2 Billy Johnsons they might have a chance straight up. But now Maxwell has to be more careful and stay out of trouble or it's going to be a long winless season. Just say'in

 

[Stuntman]

Maxwell has a CTSCC Championship (as a closing driver) and a 24Hr LeMans P2 win. Johnson doesn't.

Look at the fastest race laps. The Camaro was 1 second faster and on equal (new) tires, 0.3 faster in qualifying, and during the race, the Camaro and Porsche were better than the Mustangs on old tires (also stated in the post race quotes). As stated, the new tires was their only chance at a better than 5th place chance. IIRC, Johnson started the Sebring race, Multimatic has 2 pros just like Stevenson & RumBum, a lot comes down to the rules, and the Mustang has a small fuel tank, is slower in a straight line, worse on fuel, and could use some rule concessions to be in a better position to challenge for wins.

 

[thePill]

What does any of this have to do with the z28?

The z28's need help... Period, end of discussion...

 

[traxiii]

What does any of this have to do with the z28?

The z28's need help... Period, end of discussion...

Unfortunately Mustangs need help from the Camaro advantages right now, whatever they are.

 

[thePill]

Unfortunately Mustangs need help from the Camaro advantages right now, whatever they are.

Believe it or not, the Boss 302 is the only vehicle in Grand Am/CTSC that was homologated to that extent in the series. Ford builds them and sends them to the teams. Most of its initial appeal was the fact that it saved private teams a sh!t ton of money. I would need to check but, I think the Boss 302R is the only car in the field that doesn't cost teams over $200,000 dollars. It sits pretty at $125,000.

Slowly but surely the entire field started meeting the homologation requirements. It was shaping up to be a killer series... but then the slows were allowed to race. Not because they wanted to compete and win, just as long as they show up (doesn't have to be on time in the z28's case) and put some effort into it, you will win a championship in due time.

So, whatever... Just don't be crying about a GT350 running circles around this class. Nobody else felt the need to comply...

When Dodge couldn't make a Challenger compliant they got thrown the f@ck out. When Chevy can't make an SS compliant, they get to skip the 1LE because it wouldn't have done sh!t. Then, they get to arrive late, be 2 liters larger than everyone else, get a 60-100hp advantage via IMSA and of course, they let Pratt and Miller do the research and development for them.


...I forget... why don't I watch this class anymore?

 

[thePill]

The Camaro fan-base is giving its approval for an LT4 z28 to compete with the GT350R. That is a bad move... First of all, the LT4 is going to cause major issues in Motorsport. It may not matter to a bunch of lames but, it is very important. That race program brings technology and additional profit. The CTS-V was forced to remove the LSA and swapped it out for the LS5.5R (5.5 liter LS7). Of course, there are classes now that permit forced induction, GTS being one of them. If you couldn't handle the Mustang with a 60-100hp advantage why not just keep going until they tell you to stop. F@cking courageous!!!

Now, I don't really like to dig at the Corvette. The C7 is a great car as far as I can see... except for one little flaw so far. The z06... This is kind of proof that Chevy doesn't have a naturally aspirated V8 to handle the GT350. In fact, for a pushrod OEM engine, it's pretty much impossible for them now. Can they stretch the LT1 up to a 7 liter LT7 (Awww, LT7 looks good)? Gas guzzler tax for sure and emissions might be difficult...

Where was I???

Oh yes, the z06. It shakes me so much that I gave it thePill's official "Little z curse". Until the real Z06 returns, z06 will be used to segregate it from the real one. Didn't the z06 have some major issues with cooling and heat soak? Is that the engine we want to put in a 4000lbs z28 and see if the transmission holds out? The LS7/Z06 drivetrain in the 2014 z28 was just that... Never intended to be so... You see, the LS7 and the TR6060 MM6 were designed specifically for the Z06 and Z06 ONLY. The transmission was never really tested at the z28's curb weight or its GVWR. It was completely barrowed from a car it was designed specifically for almost 10 years ago. Yeah sure, output is output and if it has enough to move the weight then it's good to go. Not really... At least not when transmissions are involved. However, the LT4 is basically the LSA replacement and not an LS9 Jr. It's an engine built for mass produced vehicles, done is a similar fashion as the LS3 and LT1. The LS7 and LS9 was hand built specifically for the Corvette.


Now, the main reason an LT4 z28 is a bad idea... You see, you are starting the z28 down a path of painful misfortune. A supercharged V8 will only provoke the next big thing. You are setting up a 650hp Camaro to do battle with a Twin Turbo Coyote with DI. Ford can make 650+ horsepower with a 2.3 liter Coyote all day, everyday. Ford will likely do a V8 version of the FGT's TT3.5 and some of you won't like that. This next GT500 will put up the numbers and have IRS and MRC to help.

If you have an LT4 Camaro on deck, you need to talk about said car soon. Any delay will lay it at the 500's feet. If you have an LT7 or LT5.5R, you needed to announce that yesterday. An SSPP or SSTP won't cut it this time. Ford could be working on a Competition based GT similar to the 1LE was to the SS. I'm calling for the Mustang GTR... I probably made that clear a year ago here.

 

[JustACarGuy]

The Camaro fan-base is giving its approval for an LT4 z28 to compete with the GT350R. ...

Not true...The fan base wants a naturally aspirated V8 in a track car. Not a supercharger. I'm on the Camaro forums every day....again, almost nobody wants a forced induction Z/28 6th gen.

What people DO WANT is a forced induction 6th gen ZL1 model.

But we see that there is currently no high horsepower n/a V8 engine available, and the fact that Chevy used the LT4 in the Z06 makes us feel that if there is another Z/28, that it may also used FI, and that makes the fan base more unhappy rather than happy.

 

[Erik427]

It will be a very sad day for all of MotorSports if chevy is allowed to use a 6.2 liter supercharged motor against a 5.2 N/A Ford V-8! This had better not happen!

 

[JohnZiraldo]

It will be a very sad day for all of MotorSports if chevy is allowed to use a 6.2 liter supercharged motor against a 5.2 N/A Ford V-8! This had better not happen!

The SBC had to reach it's Zenith one day. This may be it. Chevy and Motorsport fans should cheer that GM will now have to move on to a smaller DOHC performance V8 and get back to fair competition again. Voodoo should have a good run until GM catches up.

 

[Erik427]

The SBC had to reach it's Zenith one day. This may be it. Chevy and Motorsport fans should cheer that GM will now have to move on to a smaller DOHC performance V8 and get back to fair competition again. Voodoo should have a good run until GM catches up.

The sbc reached it's zenith back in the mid 1990's. The ls and current "sbc" in nascar is proof of that......:ford:

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