Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Jimmy Dean]

You had the choice - comply with the requirement or not, you chose no too and hence lost your job. Nobody held you down and vaccinated you!

I assume you lost your job because you refused to be vaccinated against COVID?

Not sure what your job was but that may have been relevent?

THAT is force. 'You and your children do not get to EAT FOOD or SLEEP IN A HOUSE if you do not take this' IS force.

And no, my job is not medical, or first responder, or even customer facing, or in fact in any way requiring personal contact.

This argument that an untried and untested vaccine was not forced onto people is completely asinine. This is you, and others, attempting to rewrite history to not look like the bad guy. This is gaslighting on a global scale.

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[Nightmonkey]

'You and your children do not get to EAT FOOD or SLEEP IN A HOUSE if you do not take this'

Must be a crazy country you live in—I'd be mad too.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Must be a crazy country you live in—I'd be mad too.

Unfortunately, a lot of countries went crazy back then.
Maybe Britain didn't, which explains Greg's position, but a big part of the EU did. Look no further than your neighbour, Austria, where the vaccine was compulsory for all adults, subject to hefty fines (up to 3000-something euros, if memory serves).
Sure, someone can argue that it wasn't actually forced, that one could always choose to pay the fine. But that's a silly argument. By this measure you can argue that a robber holding a gun against your head isn't forcing you to give him the money, he's giving you a choice, and if you choose not to comply, it's your own decision.

 

[Nightmonkey]

I hadn't realized that the Austrians had gone down that path—and so far.

 

[Gregs24]

THAT is force. 'You and your children do not get to EAT FOOD or SLEEP IN A HOUSE if you do not take this' IS force.

And no, my job is not medical, or first responder, or even customer facing, or in fact in any way requiring personal contact.

This argument that an untried and untested vaccine was not forced onto people is completely asinine. This is you, and others, attempting to rewrite history to not look like the bad guy. This is gaslighting on a global scale.

That does sound OTT regarding your job whatever it is /was.

In the UK other than jobs such as working in a care home or medical environment where contact with vulnerable people was a major risk factor vaccination for COVID was not mandated. As I mentioned above the UK government did consider it but decided that uptake was likely to be better if voluntary.

As regards 'untried' and 'untested' that really isn't correct at all.

The vaccine delivery methods were all tried and tested and the actual vaccines were tested on tens of thousands of people before widespread use. No testing phases were skipped, but they were prioritised to condense time frames at the expense of other vaccines and drugs being tested for non-COVID related conditions. Just one of those is described below. Much of this was carried out in the UK and then utilised by regulatory bodies globally. It is worth noting that mRNA vaccines are long established as a delivery method and well understood, hence my post above about them being used for treatment of cancer and other diseases, they are NOT 'experimental'.

The story behind the Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine success – UKRI

Freedom of Information request on the COVID-19 vaccines and lateral flow tests (FOI 22/649) - GOV.UK

COVID-19 Vaccine Basics | COVID-19 | CDC

Finally evidence from billions of doses of COVID vaccine given globally have confirmed extremely good efficacy and safety from many independent studies in many different countries.

An example below but there is a huge amount of information on this available - literally thousands of papers with evidence from millions of people.

Effectiveness and safety of COVID-19 vaccines on maternal and perinatal outcomes: a systematic review and meta-analysis | BMJ Global Health

The whole point of the UK COVID inquiry is that evidence is collected from all sources to avoid 'gaslighting' and false recollections, but using actual evidence and data to inform for better responses to similar incidents in the future. It is independent from government, drugs companies and includes all evidence of long term studies whether they be negative or positive in any particular way.

If you don't learn from the past you will never progress and this is a very good example of how 'science' learns and adapts. If you only visit one site in respect to this topic, this really is the one to go to.

UK Covid-19 Inquiry

 

[Gregs24]

Unfortunately, a lot of countries went crazy back then.
Maybe Britain didn't, which explains Greg's position, but a big part of the EU did. Look no further than your neighbour, Austria, where the vaccine was compulsory for all adults, subject to hefty fines (up to 3000-something euros, if memory serves).
Sure, someone can argue that it wasn't actually forced, that one could always choose to pay the fine. But that's a silly argument. By this measure you can argue that a robber holding a gun against your head isn't forcing you to give him the money, he's giving you a choice, and if you choose not to comply, it's your own decision.

See other post for details but I would agree other than in specific working environments mandated vaccination is likely to be unnecessary and also counterproductive. However I do support mandatory vaccination for certain diseases in certain roles.

As an example would you really want a surgeon operating on you that was not vaccinated for hepatitis, I certainly wouldn't!

 

[308 Cal. Bullitt]

Fauci

u bk at it again??

 

[Gregs24]

Fauci

u bk at it again??

Fauci has nothing to do with anything being discussed here, and certainly nothing to do with anything outside the US

 

[CrazyHippie]

Fauci has nothing to do with anything being discussed here, and certainly nothing to do with anything outside the US

Dead wrong. Fauci was using US government funds to support the gain-of-function research that generated this nightmare in Wuhan.

One other point - Corona viruses are one type of common cold pathogen. Due to the rapid rate at which they mutate, any vaccine can be expected to have limited efficacy for a short period of time. That's exactly what happened. The real benefit of the vaccines was suppressing the massive run on global healthcare to allow the virus to run its course. In the end, the only resolution was natural herd immunity and that's exactly what happened.

The system did it's best with this, but there was a lot of misinformation that was spread. There was limited study, for example, of how much of the population contracted the virus, had no symptoms, and recovered with naturally produced antibody immunity. These folks never reached out for medical help and were undetected. Where these studies were conducted (like in Los Angeles), the numbers were huge. That means that all of the statistics related to lethality were highly inflated.

I'm glad its over.

 

[Gregs24]

Dead wrong. Fauci was using US government funds to support the gain-of-function research that generated this nightmare in Wuhan.

One other point - Corona viruses are one type of common cold pathogen. Due to the rapid rate at which they mutate, any vaccine can be expected to have limited efficacy for a short period of time. That's exactly what happened. The real benefit of the vaccines was suppressing the massive run on global healthcare to allow the virus to run its course. In the end, the only resolution was natural herd immunity and that's exactly what happened.

The system did it's best with this, but there was a lot of misinformation that was spread. There was limited study, for example, of how much of the population contracted the virus, had no symptoms, and recovered with naturally produced antibody immunity. These folks never reached out for medical help and were undetected. Where these studies were conducted (like in Los Angeles), the numbers were huge. That means that all of the statistics related to lethality were highly inflated.

I'm glad its over.

You clearly have not read anything in the link I posted from the inquiry in the UK.

There was plenty of research on the natural immunity and how this combined with and augmented vaccinal immunity. It is all out there if you want to look for it from workers around the world. Actually we never did, and never will reach 'herd immunity' with COVID19 which is still circulating today and causing mild disease from mutations of the original. Again this information is easily available. As regards 'lethality' as you describe - again plenty of data out there (including the general population data), just because some people never reached out for help doesn't mean data isn't available from other countries that screened populations.

COVID-19 variants | WHO COVID-19 dashboard

The US government had nothing to do with the initiation of COVID19 and certainly Fauci had no impact outside of the US.

This is why the UK Inquiry is so important, to avoid misconceptions and half truths from clouding useful evidence for dealing with the same problem in the future.

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