Rear Speaker Deck Removal and Amp Install

[Heinoceros]

Hmmmm...you already got all the panels out...why not just run your own aftermarket speaker wires? Why bother messing with the factory wiring and looking up wiring diagrams?

because getting the wires through the door to car connection is a holy bitch. Its not like my older cars that just have rubber gromets on the door and a loom, this thing is a lot more serious. have a look at it where it enters the car from the door. i am sure there is a way to get that thing off, but it wasnt clear how to keep it looking good.

I could just drill a couple new holes, but the existing wires are stout, and so i am just using them through the door, otherwise its all new wiring.

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[Heinoceros]

Interesting and disappointing that the wiring diagrams dont distinguish between the 9 and 12 speaker setup. I hunted around Fordparts.com using vin numbers from a 400 and 401a cars and there are definitely different component diagrams for those two sound systems. The part numbers for the components that exist in both are the same but the prices are not the same! For example the rears in the 401A are $56 and in the 400 they're $28. Neither list a price for the audio chassis so tough to see if those are the same or not. In both cases the amp was listed as the same price $258. My suspicion now is that the sub in the 401 takes the signal from the rear speakers at the back and the enclosure has its own bypass and amp. This also would jive with the fact that both stereos have the same bass/treble control and fade control. In other words the 401a doesnt have some incremental base boost control.

Sorry if I've highjacked your thread a bit!

this thread is all about how to fixup the audio in these cars, so this is quite relevant.

it would be curious to see exactly what the wiring difference are between the 9 and the 12. The wiring diagrams dont have a separate page for the two, but there might be annotations on the diagrams indicating where the sub and extra two speakers come from. I didnt see them when i was looking, but i wasnt looking for that specifically.

 

[Heinoceros]

oh shit!

so here i am talking up how easy it is to take just the rear channels for the amp input, and sure enough i get a phone call over bluetooth, and the sync only routes the bluetooth phone output over the front channel! so i was only getting it through the front tweeters. So terrible.

If only someone had called before i put all the panels back on!

 

[CMC#5]

Oh man...I was afraid of that.

Hey...you're in Houston? lol small world, so am I

Can you look back into those wiring diagrams? I think we really need to know if anything else connects to the amp or only the "audio unit" does and what all connects to that audio unit. Phone integration, SYNC voice command prompts, warning chimes, hell even turn signal clicks are speaker generated and none are "music" so...

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Subbed, and thanks a ton for taking the time to type out these tutorials. I'll probably be going premium, and it's seeming more and more like I'll have to buy/research conversion equipment I never had to in my SN95. Are you having any problems with the noise cancellation? I imagine the stock system is calibrated about right, and once you change the speaker characteristics/volume/feedback characteristic it could get nasty.

 

[Heinoceros]

Oh man...I was afraid of that.

Hey...you're in Houston? lol small world, so am I

Can you look back into those wiring diagrams? I think we really need to know if anything else connects to the amp or only the "audio unit" does and what all connects to that audio unit. Phone integration, SYNC voice command prompts, warning chimes, hell even turn signal clicks are speaker generated and none are "music" so...

unfortunately the snippets i included are the only pages that show any wires going to the amp, so if its not covered there, it isnt in the electrical diagram. Which means those must be coming through the sync head unit, and likely on the front channels. tomorrow ill try all the sounds i can find to see which ones are generates through the front channels, and if any are generated through the rear ones. I would still really like to only have to use one set of inputs, since it will set me back 80 bucks or so to have to add two more. I am a cheap bastard.

 

[CMC#5]

LOL arent we all cheap bastards? Otherwise we'd simply hand the car over to a pro stereo shop with our credit card and say "fix it!"

its more complex that just two more inputs though. The OE am has a crossover for the front speakers; it has outputs for the mid bass down low in the door and a separate output for the tweeter and mid range up high and in the a pillar. This means to get a true "front" signal we need to collect these and add them together.

 

[Heinoceros]

LOL arent we all cheap bastards? Otherwise we'd simply hand the car over to a pro stereo shop with our credit card and say "fix it!"

its more complex that just two more inputs though. The OE am has a crossover for the front speakers; it has outputs for the mid bass down low in the door and a separate output for the tweeter and mid range up high and in the a pillar. This means to get a true "front" signal we need to collect these and add them together.

But why use the amp outputs if you have access to the amp inputs? the head unit only sends 4 line level outputs, LF RF LR RR. Couldnt you just intercept those for all of your amplification needs? I have the base model so i have to use the speaker outs, but you can use those direct inputs right? and all the sync and other noises have got to already be embedded in those input level signals, since there is nothing else coming into the amp.

on the base model, the 6.5 door speaker and the tweeter both use the same output (parallel), which is horrifying. The tweeter is getting all the bass that the door speaker gets. it makes me wonder whether the front and rear channel output on the base model is identical front and rear (as far as equalization goes anyway).

 

[CMC#5]

Right, DUH I keep forgetting you have a different setup without the amp and witout **** drum roll please for something announced first here **** active noise cancellation. Yes, thats right, the premium and shaker setups both include active noise cancellation, its not just an ecoboost sound generator. I've got that from a good source at Ford who has graciously volunteered to try to get some more details on these systems for us.

Anway yes, on your car there is no amp and only four signals out of the HU. Since the diagram doesnt depict a separate crossover, I would bet a lot of money that the front tweeter and driver contain filters to limit the range. It may very well be that the base system has the same equalization front to rear for music but you've already proven that the HU only sends phone integration sounds to the fronts so the HU is doing some EQ/mixing. So, upgrading a base stereo requires tapping into all four outputs of the HU IF you want to keep all the SYNC sounds.

Now...upgrading the premium (mine) or shaker is going to be a different story as it does have noise cancellation and we dont know how much of the eq, mixing, time delay, filtering, crossing is being done where. Yet.

 

[SSLByron]

So, just spitballing here (another base audio GT).

Right now, I have an amp and sub in the shed from a previous job. I'm thinking I'll go ahead and install those now, and drive only the sub with the amplifier, then pick up replacement door and rear deck speakers down the road when I decide what I want.

It seems like tapping the signal from behind the kick panels (HU side of the connector) is the way to go, short-term.

Heinoceros, have you decided where to put your amp permanently? I had mine under the seat in my previous car (fan-cooled, relatively compact amp), but I don't think that's feasible here.

Also, apologies if I missed it, but where'd you pull your remote signal?

 

[ReeceTrey]

But why use the amp outputs if you have access to the amp inputs? the head unit only sends 4 line level outputs, LF RF LR RR. Couldnt you just intercept those for all of your amplification needs? I have the base model so i have to use the speaker outs, but you can use those direct inputs right? and all the sync and other noises have got to already be embedded in those input level signals, since there is nothing else coming into the amp.

on the base model, the 6.5 door speaker and the tweeter both use the same output (parallel), which is horrifying. The tweeter is getting all the bass that the door speaker gets. it makes me wonder whether the front and rear channel output on the base model is identical front and rear (as far as equalization goes anyway).

I do not know much about wiring, but I know a bit. If I just want to add a amp and a sub couldn't I just get a DLOC for my amp and splice it into one of the rears in the head unit which would provide a bass output. Then Just connect my sub directly to the amp and I would have bass?

 

[Heinoceros]

I do not know much about wiring, but I know a bit. If I just want to add a amp and a sub couldn't I just get a DLOC for my amp and splice it into one of the rears in the head unit which would provide a bass output. Then Just connect my sub directly to the amp and I would have bass?

there are some problems with doing this. This is what i originally set out to do, and i am still messing with it, but i am not at the point where i am happy with it yet.

So you can tie into the rears with a high line to to low line converter. I used the AudioLogic unit, but my guess is they are all similar. There is no strong reason to do this at the head unit, since there are no significant losses over the length of the car when you are using high level outputs. In fact, if you grab it at the head unit but your amp is in the trunk, you are actually in worse shape, since you now have to run your low level inputs along the length of the car. (the best solution is obviously to have low level inputs from the start, but thats just not an option in the base model cars)

But the main problem is that the head unit appears to be stomping pretty hard on the very low frequencies that need a good sub. (this is in the base model remember, if you have the 9 or 12, then you dont have this problem)

my audiologic unit has features to try and fix this, and they work reasonably well, but since there are differences between the exact frequencies the head unit is reducing, and the frequencies the audiologic unit is trying to restore, you get some very odd bass action happening in certain songs. The audiologic has settings on it that you can use to try and dial this in better, but it seems to be pretty song dependent in my usage so far. Hard rock sounds awesome, but if put on deadmaus the bass just goes nuts.

i am going to try sending a clean signal from a different source to the amp of the same songs to make sure this is what is happening, and i will report back.

 

[Heinoceros]

Subbed, and thanks a ton for taking the time to type out these tutorials. I'll probably be going premium, and it's seeming more and more like I'll have to buy/research conversion equipment I never had to in my SN95. Are you having any problems with the noise cancellation? I imagine the stock system is calibrated about right, and once you change the speaker characteristics/volume/feedback characteristic it could get nasty.

sorry, i didnt see this post when it came in.

i am still sorting out the bluetooth phone, due to my input screwup. I am still using the phone via the tweeters, and it actually works fine, but you are right, as soon as its all hooked up right i will have to check out the phone calls. My guess is the whole noise cancellation thing is overrated, especially considering the general quality of phone calls already, but its a good thing to keep in mind.

 

[Heinoceros]

So, just spitballing here (another base audio GT).

Right now, I have an amp and sub in the shed from a previous job. I'm thinking I'll go ahead and install those now, and drive only the sub with the amplifier, then pick up replacement door and rear deck speakers down the road when I decide what I want.

It seems like tapping the signal from behind the kick panels (HU side of the connector) is the way to go, short-term.

Heinoceros, have you decided where to put your amp permanently? I had mine under the seat in my previous car (fan-cooled, relatively compact amp), but I don't think that's feasible here.

Also, apologies if I missed it, but where'd you pull your remote signal?

yea, if you are going to put your amp under the seat, grabbing the signals from behind the kick panels is super easy. that should work fine. If you put the amp in the trunk, you can grab from the rear speakers. (keeping in mind if you grab from the rears, you will get no sub for the bluetooth phone. But unless you are talking to people with very low voices i dont think this will be a problem)

i just posted a rant about subs and these base model high level signals, but i think its a problem that can be worked around with a little effort.

The remote signal i am using is not going to make anyone happy. When i went to hook up the amps power line, i popped the lid on the big fuse and power routing block under the hood, and unbolted one of the posts and bolted it back down with the amp line attached via a ring terminal end. Seemed easy, i thought i was bolting it to the 12 volt always on terminal. But i wasnt, it was the power terminal that has power only when the car is on. So this is going through a big relay under there somewhere (its a monster terminal though, not like you could jump the car battery with it, but way bigger than i expected for a powered accessory terminal) , and any real car audio enthusiast would shake his head in disappointment. But the amp i am using isnt actually that high powered, and it is so easy not having to worry about screwing up the remote signal and draining the battery by accident.

what i will probably do to fix it is just run the remote signal to this powered accesory terminal, since i am already running the main power line through here. Attaching a tiny remote signal line seems like a no brainer. And then attach the amps power line to the correct terminal in the fuse block.

 

[gundam83]

How much space do you think is behind the front speakers? I want to replace mines with 6.5" components, but the drivers require 3.5" of space.

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