Prices are on the rise......

[Wildcardfox]

Just bring your camera. You never know what you’ll see.

But until then you can read this piece I wrote on it.

https://autologicmagazine.com/2020/02/06/the-thermal-club-is-the-result-of-a-wild-dream/


I used to go up there a lot before covid.

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[Wildcardfox]

Outstanding Brett and looking forward to that experience!!

last person I brought in was a good friend of mine who is a reporter for NBC Palm Springs, Daytona Everett. I brought her in with me or we met up there and she came along. So I can bring in another person. It’s usually best when they’re actually doing something like an event but I have pretty much a standing invitation if I want to come hang out and visit the staff and ownership.

 

[PP0001]

Just bring your camera. You never know what you’ll see.

But until then you can read this piece I wrote on it.

https://autologicmagazine.com/2020/02/06/the-thermal-club-is-the-result-of-a-wild-dream/


I used to go up there a lot before covid.

Terrific article and after reading and seeing some of the details of the Thermal Club I am patiently waiting with camera in hand!

 

[Wildcardfox]

And, then, there’s the new Z06. The hype is out there, but this thing keeps getting pushed back like a Biden speech.

If this car does in fact make it to production with the FPC they’re touting it will be interesting to see what will happen to the GT350 for 2 reasons:
1) the GT350 will be a cheaper buy-in to obtain an FPC,

2) the GT350 will be the ONLY manual FPC American-made auto.

With GM doing all they can to get to electrics, it’s going to consume a lot of their funds. Metals and graphite aren’t cheap for batteries and the infrastructure is improving due to Tesla, but GM will have to contribute to that infrastructure as well as I don’t believe Biden will last beyond 2024 and if a more conservative admin comes in those Green Deal funds will be gone.

I would imagine that but for Ford using the flat plane crank in the GT350/GT350R, Chevy would not be using it in the new Z06.

When the flat plane crank debuted in 2015, that term “flat plane” crank became the new buzz word. Thousands of mentions and hundreds of articles and videos were made. Although Italy had been using it for decades, it was now the new and innovative thing for an American car. Almost everyone in the car world knows what a “flat plane crank is” and you see other manufacturers get in on the trend like Mercedes new AMG SLS Black Series that also uses a flat plane crank with twin turbos.

But for Ford paving that path and having the rave success with it, I doubt the Z06 would be getting one. We don’t know, but I’m positive that GM talked about the GT350/GT350R and it’s flatplane crank when making their consideration of the engines layout.

 

[DrumReaper]

I would imagine that but for Ford using the flat plane crank in the GT350/GT350R, Chevy would not be using it in the new Z06.

When the flat plane crank debuted in 2015, that term “flat plane” crank became the new buzz word. Thousands of mentions and hundreds of articles and videos were made. Although Italy had been using it for decades, it was now the new and innovative thing for an American car. Almost everyone in the car world knows what a “flat plane crank is” and you see other manufacturers get in on the trend like Mercedes new AMG SLS Black Series that also uses a flat plane crank with twin turbos.

But for Ford paving that path and having the rave success with it, I doubt the Z06 would be getting one. We don’t know, but I’m positive that GM talked about the GT350/GT350R and it’s flatplane crank when making their consideration of the engines layout.

I think you’re spot on. I’ve said before that Ford’s intrepidation led to an awesome vehicle which will intimidate or inspire other manufacturers to go that route for performance. When you compare the shift points of a Z28 with the 350, the sweet and feral nature of the 350’s exhaust and the character of the 350’s driving experience with anything GM or Dodge produces, there’s no comparo. GM had no choice but to adventure into the FPC arena to essentially soul-lift their Z06 and take it to the next level.

Now, we shall see if the chassis and character of the car live up to the nature of that engine. It’s one thing to have a FPC, another to have the total package.

 

[lunatect]

[long response, but with pictures]




I would add, two points: the first to have a large displacement flat-plane crank; and the first vehicle to have carbon fiber wheels on a mass-produced car.

I would also add that the GT350 has survived the rollout of the GT500. About a year ago, there was the question by many, owners, enthusiasts, and in the media, who were wondering how would the GT350/GT350R be viewed once the GT500 was unveiled. Would it be thought of as old technology or last year's car or would it still have its niche and still be viewed as desirable as it was when it was the only Shelby in the stable? I think the answer is clear now, a year later, the GT350/GT350R is still as desirable to enthusiasts as it was before we ever saw the official release photos of the GT500.

I also find it interesting that I know of no less than four people who traded up from a GT350R to a GT500 carbon and then ended up selling the Carbon Package and most went back to a GT350R.

The GT350R is still viewed as unique as a Porsche GT3/GT3RS. The Porsche GT3 has a more powerful and faster sibling, the GT2RS, but as Matt Farah once said in a video on a Roush Mustang he related it to the GT350R, he used that comparison: that Porsche fans clamor for the high revving GT3 more than they do for the big power GT2RS. So top speed or faster lap times is not the only thing that people care about, they care about the experience and as you mentioned: the soul that the car has over its power adder big brother.

I think in Ford’s attempting to copy the Porsche 911 model lineup of multiple versions of the same car that don’t diminish another vehicle as obsolete but instead have their very own character. You see this in the Ford lineup.

The now-discontinued PP2 and GT350, GT350R all drive completely differently from each other. The GT500 also drivers and feels different, and even a Ford GT. I’ve been behind them all, and even after getting out from behind the wheel of a 2018 Ford GT, it was a different experience, but it did not diminish the feel or experience of my GT350R. And I got to have that experience because I literally jumped out of the Ford GT and jumped back into my car to drive back to LA for a photoshoot in the afternoon.

I wondered if I would get back into my Shelby and think, “what is this shit” like my trial in an “amazing car” was over, but I didn’t feel that way.

It was different, both amazing in their areas of what they do, but very different experiences that could not be compared and do not diminish the other.

I would also say that like its predecessor and namesake, the second generation of the GT350/GT350R redefined how the world views Mustangs. Like how the 1965 model gave the Mustang teeth, and racing pedigree, the new car refined Ford’s now global car. IRS replacing a rear axle and Panhard bar, and the GT350R as the halo of what Ford can really do. Remember, we only have the GT350/GT350R because the F150 Raptor was such a success. But for Ford allowing their team of designers and engineers to break the rules and build a Baja-ready truck that redefined pickup trucks, they would not have been allowed to build a race-ready Mustang that wasn’t handicapped by old technology or fake scoops everywhere.

They gave the GT350/GT350R magnetorheological shocks, carbon fiber wheels, amazing balance, incredible brakes, and a sound that will go down in history when we lose the sound of gasoline motors in 15 years. Road & Track was right in their 2016 Car of the Year where they said “people will tell stories of the sound.” More so, the GT350R gained the respect of other automotive manufacturers and enthusiasts.

BMW, Porsche, Audi, Aston Martin, Ferrari, and Lamborghini drivers all respect the Shelby GT350R as a serious and amazing car. Now read that again, since unfortunately there is still the stigma of “it’s a Mustang” as if that is a bad thing—the Mustang has always been one of the greatest cars in the history of the automobile—1965 GT350R, 1967 GT500, Eleanor, and the list goes on and on—but with the GT350R, it was a world car that could compete with the world and which has gained their respect.

I was blessed to be very close with the owners of The Thermal Club, the uber-rich driving resort in Coachella Valley, CA. Every SRO GT race, the drivers would walk from the track and walk through the parking lot to get to the trophy stand.

Whenever the crowd would pass by my car, which was parked directly on the route, many would stop and look. Now, these are the actual racers, and they would look and examine the car. They know from seeing the GT4 Mustang that it is a monster. The car is a constant star when I bring it to Thermal.

During a private track day at Chuckwalla with a lot of high-end car owners—Enzos, etc.; The three GT350s in attendance (two GT350R and one base), were a huge hit. We all either had Ferrari or Lamborghini owner either want to drive or want a ride-along in the Mustang. Interestingly depending on which Italian car they owned, it was either “The Mustang with a Ferrari engine in it” or “The Mustang with the Lamborghini engine in it.”

When I was at the IMSA 50th celebration event in 2019, an event to honor the famous drivers who first made IMSA a household name, an event that was sponsored by Porsche Motorsport. I was sitting next to this famous driver and during small talk over the dinner break, he said that he had brought an old race car that he brought. I said, “Yeah, I saw that you’re parked next to me—it's by my Mustang.” He said, “No, that can’t be it—I’m parked next to a Porsche.” He thought my Shelby was a Porsche. He had never thought that a Mustang could look like that. On first blush, he was sure it was a product from Stuttgart.

I’ll leave you with what I believe is the highest praise from one of the most important drivers in the world—at least to me and millions of fans around the world. What the STIG thinks of the GT350R.

Ben Collins, or for most of us THE STIG—The true, one and only STIG.

He drove cars on Top Gear for over a decade, making the aura of the character, and driving every car imaginable from the cheap car that he instructed celebrities into multimillion dollar cars. and he drove them all in anger.

Collins has always been a Ford driver. He was the one behind the wheel piloting the red 2015 GT350R up the hill at Goodwood, introducing the European and car world to Ford’s new incredible car.

He had a GT500 as a loaner, when he was in LA driving around with my buddy Robert Nagle, movie stunt coordinator for Ford vs. Ferrari, Baby Driver, the Fast & Furious franchise, and many more movies to name (check his IMBD page if you’re interested). I asked which would you choose, the GT500 or the GT350R?, and the STIGs answer was: the GT350R.

He said it felt like it had more spice like Ford just sprinkled in a little more anger a little more rawness in the GT350R. He said the GT500 is amazing, but if he had to choose only one, his choice would be the R.

Road & Track had a great article about what makes a car more valuable over time and they used the 2005-06 Ford GT vs the 2006 Corvette Z06. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23677671/ford-gt-vs-corvette-zr1-value/

They said that it’s not speed that is a factor over time. After all, a Hyundai will destroy a Lamborghini Contach—it's how important the car was in history.

In compiling this, look at how the car was viewed when it debuted—look at how important it was. You would be overwhelmed if you tried to read all of the raving articles on the Voodoo’s flat-plane crank, or its carbon fiber wheels, or its shocks—or its sound, etc. etc.. Was it the fastest? No, but is it important to history, I think so, and that is why I believe and places like Hagerty believe that it will be a future classic. Now that it is no longer available, prices will go up.

If you haven't I encourage you to read the Ford GT article from R&T.

The GT350R is unlike any Mustang that came before it—its a new level and it redefined what a modern Mustang could be. We can't look at previous modern Mustangs as a guide, Ford reimagined the Mustang with this car, and we will see a collector car market or values that will reflect that re-imagination.

I agree, but would include the GT350 along with the GT350R.

 

[Rubyred17]

I was driving up the interstate in Wisconsin. Look in my mirror and see a Maserati at high speed. They get beside me and match my speed and all I get is thumps up and huge Smiles. Totally not expecting that

do not be afraid of a Gran Turismo or Ghibli- trust me. The GT350 is faster

 

[Wildcardfox]

I agree, but would include the GT350 along with the GT350R.

I would agree but the version that set the world on fire is the model with the carbon fiber wheels, carbon wing, and the unit that all other automakers and enthusiasts were talking about. That was the apex that was driven in first car of the year tests, and paraded up the hill in Goodwood, and that appeared on tv shows like the first episode of the Grand Tour—the R made all the hype.

Is the base model important yes, but around 25,000 models versus 3500 units means it’s relatively easy to get your hands on one so supply and demand will harm that car accruing overtime.

Are non-R’s amazing cars, very much so, but for importance to history, exclusivity, and the essence of what made the car so beloved—you have to give that credit to the R.

 

[lunatect]

I would agree but the version that set the world on fire is the model with the carbon fiber wheels, carbon wing, and the unit that all other automakers and enthusiasts were talking about. That was the apex that was driven in first car of the year tests, and paraded up the hill in Goodwood, and that appeared on tv shows like the first episode of the Grand Tour—the R made all the hype.

Is the base model important yes, but around 25,000 models versus 3500 units means it’s relatively easy to get your hands on one so supply and demand will harm that car accruing overtime.

Are non-R’s amazing cars, very much so, but for importance to history, exclusivity, and the essence of what made the car so beloved—you have to give that credit to the R.

Agree. My comment strictly related to the way it drives.

 

[PP0001]

I agree with everyone's estimated Shelby GT350/R production numbers of ~25,000 over the last 6 model years but suggest that the total number of R models produced over that same time period may be closer to 3,650 cars which means that there may be more used R models out there for purchase than you may think.

 

[Hack]

Agree. My comment strictly related to the way it drives.

For those of us on a budget and those who want to drive the car a lot, the GT350 is a great choice in my opinion.

 

[Wildcardfox]

For those of us on a budget and those who want to drive the car a lot, the GT350 is a great choice in my opinion.

Any GT350 is amazing. Non-R cars are incredible machines.

 

[460Fred]

For those of us on a budget and those who want to drive the car a lot, the GT350 is a great choice in my opinion.

Even Jeff Bezos has a “budget”. Okay bad example but you get the point.
I can afford an R for sure but the low splitter, Recaros and no back seat was a definite deciding factor for our family. Wife said no to the Recaros from the get go.
One thing I did discover about the Recaros during Track Attack is they are very comfortable and I’m a pretty big guy. Knowing what I know now is I should have talked her into the Recaros. Definitely needed for the track if you’re so inclined.
That said I’m happy with my decision especially as a fun street car.

 

[Hack]

Even Jeff Bezos has a “budget”. Okay bad example but you get the point.
I can afford an R for sure but the low splitter, Recaros and no back seat was a definite deciding factor for our family. Wife said no to the Recaros from the get go.
One thing I did discover about the Recaros during Track Attack is they are very comfortable and I’m a pretty big guy. Knowing what I know now is I should have talked her into the Recaros. Definitely needed for the track if you’re so inclined.
That said I’m happy with my decision especially as a fun street car.

My knowledge from driving the GT350 on track with and without Recaros is that a good harness is what you need. Neither seat will hold me in place enough to relax without a harness, and either works fine with a harness.

I also never wanted an R. However, I have driven one and I was surprised that I didn't feel more of a difference with the carbon fiber wheels. Probably on track or with more seat time I could tell. I think I'm an observant person. However, when I drove the R I owned my Z06 at the time and had owned it for a few months, so I wasn't able to A-B compare them as closely as someone who is dailying one and then drives the other.

 

[dpAtlanta]

But until then you can read this piece I wrote on it.

https://autologicmagazine.com/2020/02/06/the-thermal-club-is-the-result-of-a-wild-dream/

Great article Brett...!!!
A tad bit of incorrect information however.
It states “11 minute read” just under the title.
Aside from it being a really well written article, the photography is excellent; this does not allow one to absorb, appreciate, and finish in 11 minutes.
May want to consider a correction notice for those who love good automotive journalism.

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