Covid Shots

[CJJon]

except it provably does NOT give you (sterilizing) immunity. NO WHERE in the documentation do they make that assertion. They ONLY assert that it *might* reduce the severity of the disease - ala symptoms. Except we already have multiple very tried and true therapeutics that reduce the severity of the disease, and even some that appear to wholesale prevent an infection from taking root at all.

Nonsense

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[shogun32]

So you have the same risk of clotting as you do just walking around.

that's an utterly baseless assertion. All of these experimental medical injections precipitate an (potentially severe) immune response by design and intent. Any person walking around is the furthest from that condition short of walking thru a cloud of Wuhan virii.

They have paused use until they investigate further, which is good. That is how it should work.

maybe they should have tested for it first before some people died of the adverse reaction? That's why it takes a LONG time to reasonably assert "safety" claims.

 

[Sivi70980]

I kinda do own the moral high ground here. There are the families of over half a million dead people that would agree with me. I don't give a whit about student loan debt. I care more about dead people that would otherwise be alive if people were not so damn stubborn and selfish. Look at Florida now with all the spring breakers.

I don't see how this can be said. Of those 1/2 million, a percentage would be dead by other means most likely.

Oh and show me the evidence that someone cannot catch the virus again or any of the many more virulent variants or that asymptomatic people do not spread active disease. There is none. Masking is still recommended when out in public even for those that have had it and those that have been vaccinated. For all sorts of logical reasons.

I did have some nurse friends tell me the reason to continue wearing a mask after vaccination is to protect those that didn't get protected yet. Particulates will hang out in the mouth and nose and while not infecting you, can still take a ride via sneeze or whatever to infect others.

I also take offence that those in the top of the medical community have screwed tings up in any way. I have no idea what you are talking about damaged trust. Makes no sense and makes me thing you have an agenda.

I think this might be a part of all the convoluted information out there. I don't watch any news and people I talk to (co workers and such) all say differing things about the medical community and hypocrisy.

 

[CJJon]

that's an utterly baseless assertion. All of these experimental medical injections precipitate an (potentially severe) immune response by design and intent. Any person walking around is the furthest from that condition short of walking thru a cloud of Wuhan virii.

maybe they should have tested for it first before some people died of the adverse reaction? That's why it takes a LONG time to reasonably assert "safety" claims.

It is not an assertion, but based on data. If your risk of heart attack is say, 1% just walking around and you immunize everyone and that same 1% drops dead. Do you blame the vaccine?

So the rate of idiopathic blood clotting is the same for the general, unvaccinated population as it is in the vaccinated group. You can actually expect that.

People will drop dead right after getting vaccinated. So do unvaccinated people. So do people who just ate a banana.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Civil War, Any World World, Great Depression etc. disagree.

Also don't forget the most recent event the 2008 recession, which only dramatically increased the wealth disparity. By far the biggest crippling of the economy and ruining the lives of healthy people. 100% man made disaster

 

[sk47]

Oh and show me the evidence that someone cannot catch the virus again or any of the many more virulent variants or that asymptomatic people do not spread active disease. There is none. Masking is still recommended when out in public even for those that have had it and those that have been vaccinated. For all sorts of logical reasons.

Hello; There you go asking the wrong question. There has been an understanding of viral infections for many decades. The understanding I have had for decades is the body develops a biological memory after an infection or after an effective vaccine. That once infected or vaccinated a body can and does use that memory to produce antibodies if it runs into a particular virus again. We become immune to a particular virus for a time. The immunity may weaken over a long time. The virus may mutate, such as the flu, and present protein spikes that our immune system no longer will recognize which is a different thing.

To me the question ought to be why does this new covid19 virus not follow the long understood patterns. Why should a recovered person still be able to infect with this virus when other known viral infections do not? Why will the current vaccines not allow us to go back to more normal life activities? Why is this virus so backward from other virus so well known? It seems to me you are among those making extraordinary claims.
Get infected and recover but you must still wear a mask, why? Get the vaccine and still have to avoid people, why?

 

[shogun32]

I care more about dead people that would otherwise be alive if people were not so damn stubborn and selfish. Look at Florida now with all the spring breakers.

you really are full of yourself. It is breathtaking. Ok, so several very large states "slavishly" complied with social distancing and mask mandates. And yet they have BY FAR the worst outcomes of any state while those selfish and stubborn peoples in other 'open' states are solidly in the bottom half of negative outcome metrics. Wanna explain how that works?

Do you really not pay attention to where the HUGE clusters of problems lie?

Half a million dead is YOUR MEDICAL PEOPLE'S fault from top to bottom.
1) you REFUSED to practice KNOWN infection control all the way back to Jan/Feb 2019 at hospitals and nursing home across the country

2) you REFUSED to practice quarantine of SICK people and EVERY MEDICAL facility personnel who came into contact with them - we had much better procedures when dealing with TB in the 18/19th centuries than today with Wuhan

3) you REFUSED to immediately treat people showing significant symptoms and said to come back when the patient was no longer able to breath - thus DELIBERATELY letting the disease progress to full-blown pathology and the body losing badly at containment.

4) you REFUSED to treat the self-evident auto-immune disfunction with anti-clotting, anti-inflamation drugs etc. as already pioneered by other doctors in the USA let alone overseas since Feb/March 2019 and instead kept using ventilators instead of treating the underlying condition - inflammation. Same as putting a bandaid on cancer.

 

[CJJon]

I don't see how this can be said. Of those 1/2 million, a percentage would be dead by other means most likely.



I did have some nurse friends tell me the reason to continue wearing a mask after vaccination is to protect those that didn't get protected yet. Particulates will hang out in the mouth and nose and while not infecting you, can still take a ride via sneeze or whatever to infect others.



I think this might be a part of all the convoluted information out there. I don't watch any news and people I talk to (co workers and such) all say differing things about the medical community and hypocrisy.

The number of dead is horrendous even of cut in half. There is no conspiracy to inflate the numbers.

The problem with the information out there is evident in this forum. People hold logic and reason in distain nowadays. Smart people are ridiculed and authority figures ignored. People would rather follow some crack pot flat Earth types than world class experts in their field...or some veterinarian with one youtube video.

 

[shogun32]

Nonsense

dude, you've gotta be a troll. go READ the EUC and study documents. NO WHERE do any of the filings claim Sterilizing immunity. NOT ONCE. And in any event the evidence is proof positive it does NOT provide it. Maybe a future one might but none of the current ones do.

If you can't even be honest about such a critical distinction between sterilizing and non-, you need to be charged with mal-practice, and just plain willful stupidity.

People hold logic and reason in distain nowadays. Smart people are ridiculed and authority figures ignored.

wait, wait, wait, so once again you resort to 'appeal to authority' as your justification? There's an entire WORLD of medical professionals who are every bit as smart, as accomplished, and educated who SOUNDLY refute the various bald-faced lies and mischaracterizations being promulgating by CDC/NIH/WHO. Who have been saving lives hand over fist by figuring out what drugs and what treatment protocols work best. And no they aren't reading from FoudXi's handbook. They are apparently able to think for themselves, run experiments, tabulate observations, do analysis and share that with other doctors to likewise validate and improve upon.

Have you read the Indian study on HCQ and Ivermectin done in 2 major provinces and their "miraculous" (not really, it's just practicing sound medicine) results?

Maybe you should take a quick look at guys like the head of the WHO who MISSED a cholera outbreak in his home country not once, not twice, but THRICE. You mean that kind of smart and highly competent person who couldn't do even the most basic part of his damn job?

 

[CJJon]

Hello; There you go asking the wrong question. There has been an understanding of viral infections for many decades. The understanding I have had for decades is the body develops a biological memory after an infection or after an effective vaccine. That once infected or vaccinated a body can and does use that memory to produce antibodies if it runs into a particular virus again. We become immune to a particular virus for a time. The immunity may weaken over a long time. The virus may mutate, such as the flu, and present protein spikes that our immune system no longer will recognize which is a different thing.

To me the question ought to be why does this new covid19 virus not follow the long understood patterns. Why should a recovered person still be able to infect with this virus when other known viral infections do not? Why will the current vaccines not allow us to go back to more normal life activities? Why is this virus so backward from other virus so well known? It seems to me you are among those making extraordinary claims.
Get infected and recover but you must still wear a mask, why? Get the vaccine and still have to avoid people, why?

Because it is a novel virus that humans have never encountered. There are lots of unknowns as you mention.

Wearing a mask is a trivial thing and saves lives regardless of what you may feel. Refusing to do so is selfish.

 

[CJJon]

you really are full of yourself. It is breathtaking. Ok, so several very large states "slavishly" complied with social distancing and mask mandates. And yet they have BY FAR the worst outcomes of any state while those selfish and stubborn peoples in other 'open' states are solidly in the bottom half of negative outcome metrics. Wanna explain how that works?

Do you really not pay attention to where the HUGE clusters of problems lie?

Half a million dead is YOUR MEDICAL PEOPLE'S fault from top to bottom.
1) you REFUSED to practice KNOWN infection control all the way back to Jan/Feb 2019 at hospitals and nursing home across the country

2) you REFUSED to practice quarantine of SICK people and EVERY MEDICAL facility personnel who came into contact with them - we had much better procedures when dealing with TB in the 18/19th centuries than today with Wuhan

3) you REFUSED to immediately treat people showing significant symptoms and said to come back when the patient was no longer able to breath - thus DELIBERATELY letting the disease progress to full-blown symptoms and the body losing badly at containment.

4) you REFUSED to treat the self-evident auto-immune disfunction with anti-clotting, anti-inflamation drugs etc. as already pioneered by other doctors in the USA let alone overseas since Feb/March 2019 and instead kept using ventilators instead of treating the underlying condition - inflammation. Same as putting a bandaid on cancer.

More crazy nonsense which you do not understand. Talk about agenda.

 

[CJJon]

dude, you've gotta be a troll. go READ the EUC and study documents. NO WHERE do any of the filings claim Sterilizing immunity. NOT ONCE. And in any event the evidence is proof positive it does NOT provide it. Maybe a future one might but none of the current ones do.

If you can't even be honest about such a critical distinction between sterilizing and non-, you need to be charged with mal-practice.

Your post was nonsense on the whole. I did not disagree that there is no sterilizing immunity and no one has claimed it does. That is what is nonsense.

Oh, and the bit about there being some magical treatment that prevents infection. I've no idea what you are talking about there.

 

[K4fxd]

Civil War, Any World World, Great Depression etc. disagree.

Completely out of context. No one told you, in the USA anyway, that you had to close your business and stay home.

And where did Trump's previous two stimulus payments go?

Those were wrong also. However I do believe we should compensate business owners that were forced to close their doors. Since the Gov arbitrailly shut them down the Gov has an obligation to make them whole. That did not happen

cJJon

You have drank the kool-aid. My X wife is just like you. Believes everything being reported on CNN.

Well I'm going to stop monitoring this thread because it makes my blood boil and I don't want to go against Forum rules.
Everyone have a nice day

 

[friedmud]

I'm selfish for wanting our lives to go back to normal?

No other time in history have we crippled healthy people and destroyed our economy. We are voting ourselves money that doesn't exist. Who is going to pay for it? Our kids and grand kids. So who the hell is being selfish and ugly? 90% of this money is not even going to us. It is going to leftist special interests.



Sadly that is and was the media and leftist mantra. There were no lies, just words taken out of context.

Hey man - I don't want to get in the middle of calling names... but I do want to point out that _everyone_ is ready to get back to normal (and has been for a long time). Where we differ is in _how_ we want to get back to normal.

Early on we all could have gotten back to normal a lot faster if we would have worn masks and socially distanced... but we didn't (couldn't as a society?). Now we are where we are and the best way out (while limiting loss of life) is the vaccines.

Personally, I was never ok with the idea of just ignoring the existence of the virus and losing millions of lives (morbidity rate is still between 1-2%... which works out to 3.5 to 7 million people for the US)... so I did what I could (wore a mask, stayed home, socially distanced, and got the vaccine when possible).

The vaccines are here - let's continue to limit loss of life as much as possible while we get them out to as many people as possible and pull through this nasty time.

 

[CJJon]

dude, you've gotta be a troll. go READ the EUC and study documents. NO WHERE do any of the filings claim Sterilizing immunity. NOT ONCE. And in any event the evidence is proof positive it does NOT provide it. Maybe a future one might but none of the current ones do.

If you can't even be honest about such a critical distinction between sterilizing and non-, you need to be charged with mal-practice, and just plain willful stupidity.

wait, wait, wait, so once again you resort to 'appeal to authority' as your justification? There's an entire WORLD of medical professionals who are every bit as smart, as accomplished, and educated who SOUNDLY refute the various bald-faced lies and mischaracterizations being promulgating by CDC/NIH/WHO.

Maybe you should take a quick look at guys like the head of the WHO who MISSED a cholera outbreak in his home country not once, not twice, but THRICE. You mean that kind of smart and highly competent person who couldn't do even the most basic part of his damn job?

More nonsense.

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