ATP means little if you can’t sell product. Where it helps is you can continue to make a gross profit even in the face of reduced volume. There is, of course a threshold below which you have to be concerned. Coming out of bankruptcy, focus at GM was to be able to produce vehicles profitably in a 10 million vehicle market. Market is at 17 million. Camaro has not yet reached the low water mark for sales where ATP is no longer supported. At least not to my knowledge, but I’ve been away just over a year. There are other vehicles that have.
My proof that it's the norm is word of mouth yes. But also from several dealerships I spoke with including the one I bought mine from. Each dealership I went to and/or called told me specifically that Ford was offering bonuses and incentives to dealerships to push the EB Mustangs. And dealerships were belting them out like crazy. To the point where several of them could not keep the EB Mustangs in stock. Other dealerships I spoke with actually kept the EBs on separate lots because they had so many coming in and going out. Each dealership told me that they were selling EBs below MSRP and had lots of discounts available. If it was one or even two dealerships telling me that then I would have just noted it. But when several of them are all saying the same thing then that to me says something.
Ok. That is all I wanted to know. That is what I asked you when you resorted to calling me a "nitwit". Yet you cannot even truthfully answer that question. So next time, instead of slinging insults, maybe you'll actually calm your little self down and we can have a respectful discussion.
I will gladly answer this. The Camaro doesn't sell as well because GM doesn't know how to move cars like Ford does. Ford is very savvy when it comes to sales. They know how to get people into the dealerships, into a car, and out the door. They offer test drives, they offer letting people take the cars home for a day or weekend, they offer discounts and rebates, and they throw stuff in. At Chevy dealerships, they sometimes act like they're doing YOU a favor just for you walking in the door. I get it that it isn't GM's fault...rather it is the dealership's fault for this behavior. But GM isn't doing anything about it. They need to address this by giving dealerships a good reason to move these cars. Throw them a bone and those salesmen will go from acting like the Camaro is a Lambo to trying to get more and more people in them. And also the pricing. Ford has for decades offered Mustangs at much lower prices than Chevy has offered the Camaro. Chevy's idea seems to be throwing lots of stuff in the Camaro and charging more for it. And true, that stuff may very well be worth the money. But that means nothing if nobody can afford it. Mustangs come with what people want and not much else. A V8, a low sticker price, and that's about it. And for those who have more money, they have some that are fully optioned. Those are the major differences why the Mustang sells better. Visibility, looks, all of that might play a small insignificant role. But the reasons I outlined are the major reasons why it doesn't sell as good.
Been to a Chevy dealer lately...?
Nothing you said here is factual. They are your opinions. Yet you're spouting it like everyone feels that way. To some people, performance is all that matters. They don't care that YOU personally think this or that is ugly or pretty. These are performance cars first and foremost. Looks are in the eyes of the beholder. And you could think the Camaro is the ugliest thing on the planet. There is someone out there who will say the same thing about the Mustang.
Well for starters that has nothing to do with the fact that Ford has been offering heavy discounts and rebates for decades. Even now the Camaro still doesn't discount their cars like Ford does. So what exactly is your point?
I just don't think the SS 1LE is an ugly car. I'm not sure why you think that is some universal truth that I'm compromising on.
On the internet, if you don't like the car, then that makes it ugly no matter what. So I guess that means the Mustang is ugly considering what the Camaro6 guys have to say. LOL!! Oh and you know what? I think Porsches are ugly. So that means they're ugly.
Alright dude, just knock it off already. I'm on both forums. And none of what you just posted is even being talked about over there nor has it been talked about over there in who knows how long. And I have yet to see anyone mention your name. You guys mention them way more. Especially you guy's favorite person over there. I don't understand why it's so difficult for you to be even remotely reasonable. It's like you're taking things personally. And nobody is even saying the Camaro is better. I just spent an entire post talking about how terrible GM sales tactics are. So chill out. We're all adults so let's behave like adults.
In the grand scheme of things, 3 seconds isn’t a large enough of a difference to significantly change the fun factor. In the end, none of you will be racing these cars for money or trophy and it’s all of matter of “my cars dick is bigger than yours” around the track. Seriously, it’s bragging rights to justify why you purchased your car (we all do it). Those 3 seconds can easily be eliminated by a few smart suspension changes and new wheels and tires….and that’s it. If it makes you feel better that you didn’t have to purchase aftermarket, good for you. In the end, it’s not like the slightly modified cars won’t be just as fun as yours simply because yours is stock and their isn’t.
I’m sorry, bluebeastsrt is right on every single point. If you can’t see it, you are blind. Every single monthly sales discussion brought up the points he mentioned as did every single vs. argument (seriously, every one). Once the next “quarterly” sales results come out, you’ll once again see: “Sales are fine”, “But fleet sales!”, “I enjoy driving the more rare car” (this one cracks me up every time I see it), “I see 15 Mustangs on every block” and on and on and on.
Here’s a place where I can add some REAL information because I was there, in the room while these decisions were made. I’ve had this discussion on Camaro6 a few times. The 1997 - 2002 Camaros were awesome vehicles for their time, yet there was no 2003 - 2009. Why? Main reason is a combination of new fuel economy regulations and NHTSA crash regulations plus a general lack of cash within the company. It was time for a major update on Camaro. The F-Body platform was not capable of passing the upcoming crash requirements without a ridiculous amount of investment. So we in Product Planning started looking for existing RWD platforms that could take the Camaro and Firebird. The most obvious was the Sigma platform that launched the then new CTS. Two problems...too expensive to make a reasonably priced Camaro / Firebird and plans for upcoming vehicles off Sigma (STS, SRX, two other vehicles that eventually never happened) meant there wasn’t enough volume left to add Camaro / Firebird. So even though Sigma was everybody’s favorite for a new Camaro / Firebird, there was no way it was going to displace a Cadillac model for volume and adding a second production module made zero economic sense.
Only gonna discuss the bold print stuff. Anyone thinking that GM went from monthly to quarterly to hide Camaro sales is truly watching the tail wag the dog. Camaro is such a small part of the GM portfolio I can guarantee you the word “Camaro” was never mentioned in the meetings to discuss this change in policy. It was a business process decision pure and simple. GM doesn’t make internal decisions based on month-to-month sales, so developing and publishing monthly sales was of zero internal benefit and was done primarily for automotive analysts and press. At some point somebody pretty much said “if Tesla can get away with quarterly reports that don’t even break down sales by model, why are we doing all this work on a monthly basis?”
3 seconds is massive and very noticeable on track. It is more fun for me. After tracking for a while you end up at the same courses and it is obvious when you've turned a faster lap. You're right I don't track my car for money, but it costs a lot to do so and I want to have as much fun as a i can while doing it.