5.2L FPC firing order and other Voodoo questions

[2nazty]

Hi all

Can anyone tell me if the firing order of the Voodoo engine is diffrent than the 5.0L coyote, and if it is, what the firing order is specifically?

I'm interested in learning what it would take to swap one of these engines into my 2008 Mustang GT/CS

Also I'm curious for those who have added a supercharger or turbos to their 5.2L FPC, did you have to upgrade anything internally to the engine and if so, did it require anything special to balance the rotating assembly

Ideally if the 5.2L Voodoo uses the same firing order as the regular coyote engine I would like to add the 2018 Mustang GT heads with direct injection to a Voodoo shortblock and GT350 intake manifold (provided there is enough room in the valley for the fuel rails and the intake manifold, if not I would fabricate a custom one) change the pistons out for ones that are compatable with direct injection, add a twin turbocharger set up and fit it into my car.

This would be straight forward if the firing order were the same as I could use a 2018 mustang GT ECU and harness and modules to make it all work, if not well I will keep searching for ways to make it work

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[tdzee]

I am pretty sure the firing order is different than the 5.0. Additionally, this engine has a lot of NVH which the 5.0 does not, and has numerous additions to deal with that. Also, I think the jury is out on how well these will hold up with FI. There are several posts here from those who have done so. I don't think the swap is anywhere as simple as you suggest. If you use a CPC with a 5.2 block, then the project might work out as you describe. Good luck on your project. :cheers:

 

[nastang87xx]

It is absolutely not the same. FPC engines fire on one bank then the other bank one after the other. The Coyote fires on one bank then the other then again, then back to the other bank and so on and so forth.

 

[Demonic]

If it's going to be an engine swap and you know you're going to boost it, why not just go with an Aluminator?

 

[2nazty]

I am pretty sure the firing order is different than the 5.0. Additionally, this engine has a lot of NVH which the 5.0 does not, and has numerous additions to deal with that. Also, I think the jury is out on how well these will hold up with FI. There are several posts here from those who have done so. I don't think the swap is anywhere as simple as you suggest. If you use a CPC with a 5.2 block, then the project might work out as you describe. Good luck on your project. :cheers:

Thanks for your reply, I think you are right about the firing order especially since after a bit more research I found that a GT350 cam swap would be necessary due to the firing order as well. I could do a cross plane crank but I enjoy doing the technically difficult projects the best

Does anyone know if the firing order can be reprogrammed in the ECU? The reason I am so adamant about it is I want to combine DI (actually DI plus port injection as Ford is currently using) with the FPC and forced induction in a chassis combination that would be rare. overcomming issues such as a 5.2L piston compatable with DI are easy enough to overcome, there are plenty of companies that can make you custom pistons to suit your application. More importantly is the rods, Im sure the crank is strong enough but the rods are more likely to be a powdered metal forging with cracked caps as Ford has used that tech consistently (except for the 03/04 cobra) so I would need to source out forged or billet I beam rods and have the whole rotating assembly dynamically balanced.

The DI is a bit of a mystery to me, I havent found much technical information on the system that ford has been using, Im guessing that using the 2018 coyote ECU and heads is the easiest way to get the system onto a Voodoo shortblock, unless someone can point me in the direction of a shop capable of machining in the injector ports onto GT350 heads and a tuner capable of adding whatever programming to the GT350 ECU to control DI.....then I do the internal upgrades to the rods and pistons, balance it, add the forced induction and do some rewiring of my car to communicate with the new ECU.

 

[nastang87xx]

If it's going to be an engine swap and you know you're going to boost it, why not just go with an Aluminator?

Probably becausevoodoo. However at about $20,000 - 25,000 for the engine and the transmission plus everything else like the driveline and such...sounds like one should just buy a GT350.

 

[nastang87xx]

Thanks for your reply, I think you are right about the firing order especially since after a bit more research I found that a GT350 cam swap would be necessary due to the firing order as well. I could do a cross plane crank but I enjoy doing the technically difficult projects the best

Does anyone know if the firing order can be reprogrammed in the ECU? The reason I am so adamant about it is I want to combine DI (actually DI plus port injection as Ford is currently using) with the FPC and forced induction in a chassis combination that would be rare.

That sounds like a one way ticket to grenade-ville, even if you could do it. Firing orders are there for a reason. You really need to research why FPC engines fire the way they do rather than a cross plane firing order. Balancing and exhaust evacuation are just the start of it.

 

[2nazty]

That sounds like a one way ticket to grenade-ville, even if you could do it. Firing orders are there for a reason. You really need to research why FPC engines fire the way they do rather than a cross plane firing order. Balancing and exhaust evacuation are just the start of it.

Thanks for your input, I didnt mean I would change the firing order in the ECU and not have it match the motor lol of course if they dont match it would be detonation city if it ran at all

What I meant is if its possible to alter the parameters in the 2018 ECU to match the 5.2L Voodoo ECU, while retaining the DI functions, this way the ECU strategy would match the motor causing no imbalance

 

[Offboost]

You may be able put the coyote heads on the voodoo and use the voodoo cams but you would also need to port the hell out of the heads since the voodoo heads flow a lot. I am certain the firing order can be altered in the ECU since it is a program file that should be able to be altered. I just think you are asking to do a lot of work and spend a fortune for very minimal if at all gains over the stock voodoo.

 

[2nazty]

Probably becausevoodoo. However at about $20,000 - 25,000 for the engine and the transmission plus everything else like the driveline and such...sounds like one should just buy a GT350.

I can source a voodoo shortblock for $6000 US......

of course I do not know what a set of 2018 coyote heads would be worth but Im sure they wouldnt be much more expensive than any other year production coyote engine

Custom pistons and rods, machine shop work for balancing etc etc. yes it wont be cheap, I do not need to farm out the install or rewiring of my car, I've done plenty of diffrent engine swaps in the last 25 years of varying complexity, the only things I am not able to do on my own is the dynamic balance of the rotating assembly once I change pistons and rods to forged aftermarket units and the ECU reprogramming to match the engine combination, however I am learning to use the Ford IDS software and VCM 2, not sure if the newer ECU's still use this system or something else now, even if VCM 2 and IDS is capable of programming in the new functions into the 2018 ECUs, I am relatively a novice at that end of ECU programming so likely will seek help from Lund or another capable tuner that has greater skills in that department

The reason I want to do this is because I like doing unusual engine combinations and swaps especially when I can do it cleanly and retain all of the factory functions including PATS. besides the pokey 4.6L 3V engine just isnt fun anymore and would be better used in my parents lincoln LS

Anybody can swap in a 5.4L or 5.0L and call it a day or slap forced induction on a stock motor and be happy, I want to show this thing off to some of my former work collegues within the Ford V.O.M.E. group to make them go WTF LOL :ford:

 

[JohnVallo]

VooDoo 5.2L Firing Order

1 5 4 8 3 7 2 6

 

[2nazty]

You may be able put the coyote heads on the voodoo and use the voodoo cams but you would also need to port the hell out of the heads since the voodoo heads flow a lot. I am certain the firing order can be altered in the ECU since it is a program file that should be able to be altered. I just think you are asking to do a lot of work and spend a fortune for very minimal if at all gains over the stock voodoo.

You are correct, the GT350 heads being CNC finished likely flow alot more, I havent seen flow numbers for the 2018 heads but I'm going to assume they do not flow as well.

another option is if I can find a shop capable of machining in the DI ports onto GT350 heads, either way its going to cost

The engine will be forced induction, likely twin turbocharged, the wish to have DI on the motor is for charge cooling, detonation prevention and lower octane reqiurements, plus it technically would be a ecoboost V8, I like doing the unusual when it comes to doing engine swaps, Ive seen 5.0L coyote, 5.4L DOHC, and various pushrod V8's swapped into a S197 car, never anything voodoo based, I also like doing swaps as factory seamless as possible with all vehicle functions operating properly including PATS which most people deactivate because of VIN mismatch issues with various components in the car

 

[JAJ]

...Does anyone know if the firing order can be reprogrammed in the ECU? ...

You didn't get a direct answer to this question, and at this point, I haven't seen a clear answer anywhere else, despite having searched a few times.

There's a table in the ECU code that tells the ECU the firing order. The ECU has a bunch of predictive math it does several full revolutions ahead of the current time, so it has to know which cylinders are firing next so it can do the math. It also needs to know which of the two knock sensors to listen to for each ignition event.

What's not clear is whether that same table also tells the ECU which pins on the connector it should activate to cause the spark and injectors to fire. Presumably, you can make that what it needs to be by placement of the injector and spark wires in the ECU connector.

 

[nastang87xx]

You didn't get a direct answer to this question, and at this point, I haven't seen a clear answer anywhere else, despite having searched a few times.

There's a table in the ECU code that tells the ECU the firing order. The ECU has a bunch of predictive math it does several full revolutions ahead of the current time, so it has to know which cylinders are firing next so it can do the math. It also needs to know which of the two knock sensors to listen to for each ignition event.

What's not clear is whether that same table also tells the ECU which pins on the connector it should activate to cause the spark and injectors to fire. Presumably, you can make that what it needs to be by placement of the injector and spark wires in the ECU connector.

I believe that table isn't adjustable isn't it? And not that it matters but just a talking point, don't we have 4 knock sensors?

 

[MrCincinnati]

Firing order

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