Ford Axing all cars except Mustang and Focus Active Crossover in North America

[cosmo]

Why..? If gas prices go up, it directly benefits Ford's plan.

Ford's ultimate plan is to hybridize everything, so gas prices are completely irrelevant. All of these SUVs/CUVs are going to get high 20s to low 40s in MPG.

Hybridization is expensive, with those cars (even with incentives) being pricey.

Ford's "cheap" vehicles like the Focus Active, Ecosport, and Escape will be their fuel economy drivers with their ICE powertrains and size but will be fighting smaller cars like the Civics, Camry, Cruze etc which will get better fuel economy. It will be interesting to see if, like the 2007/8 gas and financial crisis, the customers walk away from larger vehicles and eat up small cars again or not. The balance of size/fuel economy is better nowadays, but don't know if it's enough. And to be frank, I don't have confidence that Ford understands that either.

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[Loki-GT]

Why..? If gas prices go up, it directly benefits Ford's plan.

Ford hasn't stated their new car replacements will all get high MPG, they stated they're going to build them for their higher profits.

 

[Loki-GT]

Hybridization is expensive, with those cars (even with incentives) being pricey.

Ford's "cheap" vehicles like the Focus Active, Ecosport, and Escape will be their fuel economy drivers with their ICE powertrains and size but will be fighting smaller cars like the Civics, Camry, Cruze etc which will get better fuel economy. It will be interesting to see if, like the 2007/8 gas and financial crisis, the customers walk away from larger vehicles and eat up small cars again or not. The balance of size/fuel economy is better nowadays, but don't know if it's enough. And to be frank, I don't have confidence that Ford understands that either.

Very well stated.

 

[ctandc72]

Depending on what happens with gas prices due to the situation with Iran, Ford may come to deeply regret this.

It'll only go up so much. When it hits a certain price point, you'll see domestic production ramp up. Normal. If we could simply build a couple of new refineries, that would be wonderful.

 

[Bravo]

Hybridization is expensive, with those cars (even with incentives) being pricey.

Ford's "cheap" vehicles like the Focus Active, Ecosport, and Escape will be their fuel economy drivers with their ICE powertrains and size but will be fighting smaller cars like the Civics, Camry, Cruze etc which will get better fuel economy. It will be interesting to see if, like the 2007/8 gas and financial crisis, the customers walk away from larger vehicles and eat up small cars again or not. The balance of size/fuel economy is better nowadays, but don't know if it's enough. And to be frank, I don't have confidence that Ford understands that either.

The won't have to hybridize every trim - my point is that it'll be offered for those that seek 40+ MPG, and won't be necessary for those that don't.

Ford is already creating 30+ MPG CUVs with a 2.0T powertrain. Similar engines in the active lineup (1.5-2.0T) will produce high 30s.

Vehicle size was once a big precursor in projected fuel economy, but those days have come and gone. Gas could get $5/gal, and people would happily ride it out with the lineup that Ford is proposing. Only the 5.0 drivers of the Mustang/F-Series would really feel the pain at the pump, and those drivers really don't care either.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Ford's ultimate plan is to hybridize everything, so gas prices are completely irrelevant. All of these SUVs/CUVs are going to get high 20s to low 40s in MPG.

It all comes down to minimizing all of the resistances to motion, from the obvious ones (aero and rolling drag) to various parasitic losses (ex. bearings are not perfectly friction-free, nor are electrical conductors, motors, and batteries completely free of resistance, etc.).

Everything they do to make SUVs and CUVs get better mpg could be applied to sedans. And with less weight and potentially much better aero, sedans would do better still.


Norm

 

[w3rkn]

Ford hasn't stated their new car replacements will all get high MPG, they stated they're going to build them for their higher profits.

You are incorrect.

Ford directly stated, the reason they are doing this, is ofr the FACT they can make SUV's with better gas mileage AND greater performance than an current sedans, without no loss in fuel economy (ergo: Ford's newer generation of SUVs will have greater fuel economy because they are hybrids and use electricity & motors when it matters the most.

Ford is staking their whole future on it. And that gas prices will be going up and people will still want SUVs.


Ford = Win... what are you not getting here, or didn't read/watch..?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Vehicle size was once a big precursor in projected fuel economy, but those days have come and gone.

Be careful. I wouldn't be surprised if another doubling of the pump prices (like what happened in either the 2004 - 2008 or the 1979 - 1981 time frames) would cause a lot of people to re-think their vehicle choice.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

You are incorrect.

Ford directly stated, the reason they are doing this, is ofr the FACT they can make SUV's with better gas mileage AND greater performance than an current sedans, without no loss in fuel economy (ergo: Ford's newer generation of SUVs will have greater fuel economy because they are hybrids and use electricity & motors when it matters the most.

Ford is staking their whole future on it. And that gas prices will be going up and people will still want SUVs.

It's what they're NOT saying that concerns me here. They're carefully avoiding any mention that whatever they do to get better SUV/CUV fuel economy would be at least comparably beneficial if applied to sedans. Like if they don't mention it, they will be able to make people think they've bent the laws of physics.

Sadly, people will fall for it . . . hook, line, and sinker.


Norm

 

[Loki-GT]

You are incorrect.

Ford directly stated, the reason they are doing this, is ofr the FACT they can make SUV's with better gas mileage AND greater performance than an current sedans, without no loss in fuel economy (ergo: Ford's newer generation of SUVs will have greater fuel economy because they are hybrids and use electricity & motors when it matters the most.

Ford is staking their whole future on it. And that gas prices will be going up and people will still want SUVs.


Ford = Win... what are you not getting here, or didn't read/watch..?

I get it, I don't like it so I'm being stubborn. :rant:

 

[Bravo]

Be careful. I wouldn't be surprised if another doubling of the pump prices (like what happened in either the 2004 - 2008 or the 1979 - 1981 time frames) would cause a lot of people to re-think their vehicle choice.


Norm

My point was simply that there was a time when vehicle size was directly related to the MPG that said vehicle achieved. That is no longer true.

Many, if not most mid size cross overs (Rav4/CRV/Escape/Forester/Rogue/etc) can achieve 30MPG with 2.5L engine displacements and AWD. Toss in a turbo and improve drive train efficiencies even further and you're looking at mid 30s.

You no longer need to drive a tiny sedan to have a fuel efficient vehicle. Ford knows that, and the general public have apparently been aware for a while, as sedan sales have been falling year after year.

 

[w3rkn]

Nobody here has explained to me what is wrong with the Focus Active hatchback.. or why they wouldn't own it (if they were in the market for a Focus, or small utility car). Or even once looking to own a Focus RS and now an Active RS..?

 

[UAmach1]

My point was simply that there was a time when vehicle size was directly related to the MPG that said vehicle achieved. That is no longer true.

Many, if not most mid size cross overs (Rav4/CRV/Escape/Forester/Rogue/etc) can achieve 30MPG with 2.5L engine displacements and AWD. Toss in a turbo and improve drive train efficiencies even further and you're looking at mid 30s.

You no longer need to drive a tiny sedan to have a fuel efficient vehicle. Ford knows that, and the general public have apparently been aware for a while, as sedan sales have been falling year after year.

Meanwhile the Q50 I have gets worse MPG than my bolt-on Mach1 did. Sure it makes like almost 100hp more, but its also a v6 that even when I TRY cant get more than 15MPG on my daily commute. Mach1 gets 16-17.

 

[Loki-GT]

Nobody here has explained to me what is wrong with the Focus Active hatchback.. or why they wouldn't own it (if they were in the market for a Focus, or small utility car). Or even once looking to own a Focus RS and now an Active RS..?

My wife had a Focus Titanium so it was an expensive Focus. The transmission was utter crap, was still crap when we traded it in and the salesman asked us why we didn't get it fixed. I pointed him to his own service department and said ask them, they had it 12 times in the past year to do just that, don't ding our trade in because Ford built a crappy transmission and can't fix it.

If any Ford comes with that same or similar transmission I'll be avoiding it, no matter what people say about it.

 

[w3rkn]

My wife had a Focus Titanium so it was an expensive Focus. The transmission was utter crap, was still crap when we traded it in and the salesman asked us why we didn't get it fixed. I pointed him to his own service department and said ask them, they had it 12 times in the past year to do just that, don't ding our trade in because Ford built a crappy transmission and can't fix it.

If any Ford comes with that same or similar transmission I'll be avoiding it, no matter what people say about it.

Gotcha...

You are still angry and thinking Ford doesn't refine or design newer transmissions, in their newer vehicles.

Or that we all shop at your dealership.

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