Catch Cans, and Is there evidence???

[Marvinmadman]

Yep, mine has the stock tune.

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[jc1804]

That is very informative and detailed information. The biggest problem with installation of catch cans IMO is the back yard engineering doesn't always go as planned and one can introduce a problem where one doesn't exist. Also, for the 10 thousanth time, showing that something is accumulating in the catch can isn't proof that the system isn't functioning correctly. I have not seen a single.documented case where carbon buildup is a problem on our engines.

IMO the reason would be cleaning it out regularly, if it fills up & gets sucked into the engine you may have more issues then just a carbon issue

 

[Turbong]

I wish we can ask a ford engineer in why there was no catch can placed in the eco.

I am in agreement with Maggnetto that it could create issues that did not exist originally. I have to respect this place for enthusiasts and mod crazies, but you guys are suggesting that the Mustangs PCV system is defective and does not work sounds ludicrous. Have you ever once stopped to think about how these vendors are selling you shit for nothing in return?

You are putting a can that sits lower than the hose....you guys failed or slept during high school science because that is how any vapor pools into a liquid. These cars are designed for it. If you are pushing that much pressure into your cylinder to force that much added blow-by, odds are, you're going to have a catastrophic failure of the engine before any issues with compositing arises.

Curious if anyone has asked FP about the issue, I mean they did 60k tests surely carbon would of shown up with power being pumped up if severe enough on these motors. I wonder if they recommend a catch can? I read the biggest contributing factor to carbon build is basically "software" aka tuning.

 

[jbailer]

I wish we can ask a ford engineer in why there was no catch can placed in the eco.

That's an easy question. They couldn't put a CC in every Mustang, think of all the people that wouldn't empty it, then it absolutely WOULD cause problems. While the little bit of oil/fuel vapors being reburned might cause extra carbon build up on your valves, it would be exponentially worse of it was able to suck through pure liquid.

I am in agreement with Maggnetto that it could create issues that did not exist originally. I have to respect this place for enthusiasts and mod crazies, but you guys are suggesting that the Mustangs PCV system is defective and does not work sounds ludicrous. Have you ever once stopped to think about how these vendors are selling you shit for nothing in return?

I don't know that anyone thinks that the PCV system is defective. It could just be better and the CC does that at the expense of extra servicing. The way the system works is our engine has an oil separator where the oil in the air hits the baffles inside it and collects and drains back with the attempt to clean the air as much as possible before it passing through the PCV where it is drawn out at a vacuum back into the intake for reburn. The problem is, it does still allow some oil to pass through and that is what collects and bakes onto the valves as carbon buildup. The CC is really just a second attempt to do the same thing the factory oil separator does but the factory separator drains the oil back, the CC has to be manually emptied.

You are putting a can that sits lower than the hose....you guys failed or slept during high school science because that is how any vapor pools into a liquid. These cars are designed for it. If you are pushing that much pressure into your cylinder to force that much added blow-by, odds are, you're going to have a catastrophic failure of the engine before any issues with compositing arises.

I'm glad you paid attention in HS and you are correct. However, that is the desired effect. This isn't pressure pushing this air through, it's vacuum. The vapors pooling into liquid is the whole point of a decent CC. If it didn't do that, you bought junk. The CC should have baffles in it to help collect the liquid and capture it in the can, allowing the cleanER air to pass through to the intake. We're not talking about anyone ADDING pressure to increase blowby, this happens as part of the normal process. It happens with your factory engine. One of the first mods I did was the CC and it was collecting oil right away. Can the car run without it? ABSOLUTELY! All of that oily vapor will get mixed in with the clean intake air the way PCV systems were designed and get burned. The CC is just cleaning it up a little more to help REDUCE the carbon build up.

If anyone thinks a CC will eliminate carbon build up, they're crazy. No CC is 100% efficient. As I said before, if you really want to reduce carbon build up, go with water meth injection which will wash the valves.

 

[Turbong]

That's an easy question. They couldn't put a CC in every Mustang, think of all the people that wouldn't empty it, then it absolutely WOULD cause problems. While the little bit of oil/fuel vapors being reburned might cause extra carbon build up on your valves, it would be exponentially worse of it was able to suck through pure liquid.



I don't know that anyone thinks that the PCV system is defective. It could just be better and the CC does that at the expense of extra servicing. The way the system works is our engine has an oil separator where the oil in the air hits the baffles inside it and collects and drains back with the attempt to clean the air as much as possible before it passing through the PCV where it is drawn out at a vacuum back into the intake for reburn. The problem is, it does still allow some oil to pass through and that is what collects and bakes onto the valves as carbon buildup. The CC is really just a second attempt to do the same thing the factory oil separator does but the factory separator drains the oil back, the CC has to be manually emptied.



I'm glad you paid attention in HS and you are correct. However, that is the desired effect. This isn't pressure pushing this air through, it's vacuum. The vapors pooling into liquid is the whole point of a decent CC. If it didn't do that, you bought junk. The CC should have baffles in it to help collect the liquid and capture it in the can, allowing the cleanER air to pass through to the intake. We're not talking about anyone ADDING pressure to increase blowby, this happens as part of the normal process. It happens with your factory engine. One of the first mods I did was the CC and it was collecting oil right away. Can the car run without it? ABSOLUTELY! All of that oily vapor will get mixed in with the clean intake air the way PCV systems were designed and get burned. The CC is just cleaning it up a little more to help REDUCE the carbon build up.

If anyone thinks a CC will eliminate carbon build up, they're crazy. No CC is 100% efficient. As I said before, if you really want to reduce carbon build up, go with water meth injection which will wash the valves.

It just doesn't add up, it's basically down to it may or not help a little mostly the feeling like your doing something about it with no real world results. The coking is mostly caused by the vapors right? They still go through the catch can then eventually right in the valves at the temperatures ideal for coking, its not cooling anything off, nothing is washing the valves. I can see it making more sense for track use with more power where your constantly pushing it hard creating more blow by thus catching excess oil, for daily driving for the most part not so much. I think the right answer is just we think it might help, buy it if it makes you feel better.

I am a firm believer in if something is too good to be true it just is. "Hey look this 20 dollar can I sell for 300% over will save you thousands of dollars, yet no one really uses them, except hard core enthusiasts", who's the real beneficiary you or the seller?

Just like the spark plugs ordeal "oh change out your spark plugs ASAP they are junk", turns out the stock plugs are so perfect it's best you keep em for mostly stock set up or FP tune, compared to the one step colder plugs they looked flawless and clean. Again who was really benefiting from the new plugs?

 

[jbailer]

It just doesn't add up, it's basically down to it may or not help a little mostly the feeling like your doing something about it with no real world results. The coking is mostly caused by the vapors right? They still go through the catch can then eventually right in the valves at the temperatures ideal for coking, its not cooling anything off, nothing is washing the valves. I can see it making more sense for track use with more power where your constantly pushing it hard creating more blow by thus catching excess oil, for daily driving for the most part not so much. I think the right answer is just we think it might help, buy it if it makes you feel better.

I am a firm believer in if something is too good to be true it just is. "Hey look this 20 dollar can I sell for 300% over will save you thousands of dollars, yet no one really uses them, except hard core enthusiasts", who's the real beneficiary you or the seller?

Just like the spark plugs ordeal "oh change out your spark plugs ASAP they are junk", turns out the stock plugs are so perfect it's best you keep em for mostly stock set up or FP tune, compared to the one step colder plugs they looked flawless and clean. Again who was really benefiting from the new plugs?

I'm not really sure which part is confusing. The coking is not caused by the vapors, it's caused by the oil in the vapors. The idea is to reduce the oil in the vapors and the CC does that. If it didn't, that can would be empty (like the clean side CCs ). The fact is, it IS collecting oil and all of that would have been passed through with the vapors to cook on the valves. It has absolutely nothing to do with racing or pushing your car hard, this happens on daily drivers at normal load. Again, it's not going to remove 100% of the oil in the vapors as no CC is 100% but it DEFINITELY helps. What do you think happens to all that oil we are catching in our CCs?

I don't want to try to sell anyone on getting a CC, I get nothing out of it. I'm trying to help people that don't understand what it's for or why they should get one. By all means, if you just don't want to get one, move on and don't, nobody cares and it's your decision. But don't tell people it's a hoax and doesn't work. All of that oil people are collecting in their CCs would have been passed through and reburnt. Some of it would have baked onto the valves. This isn't a new thing, it's been that way for a long time. The vehicle manufacturers do a reasonable amount to reduce the oil passed but can't get rid of it all, neither will a CC but it removes even more. If the manufacturers attempt was complete, there'd be no oil in the CC, simple as that.

As for the plugs, I've been telling people the same thing on the plugs all along. If you're using an aftermarket tune, you should first take the recommendation of the tuner. Ford knows what plug is needed stock and for the average driver. If you change that with an aftermarket tune, the tuner is now the best source for that info. Then after taking that advice you should be monitoring the condition of your plugs and determine for your specific needs if they are indeed the correct plug for you. Ford Performance determined the stock plugs are suitable for their tune and that's what should be used. However if you have the FP tune and you primarily race with your car pushing it hard most of the time, they might need to go to a colder plug but anyone racing should already know that.

 

[Turbong]

I'm not really sure which part is confusing. The coking is not caused by the vapors, it's caused by the oil in the vapors. The idea is to reduce the oil in the vapors and the CC does that. If it didn't, that can would be empty (like the clean side CCs ). The fact is, it IS collecting oil and all of that would have been passed through with the vapors to cook on the valves. It has absolutely nothing to do with racing or pushing your car hard, this happens on daily drivers at normal load. Again, it's not going to remove 100% of the oil in the vapors as no CC is 100% but it DEFINITELY helps. What do you think happens to all that oil we are catching in our CCs?

I don't want to try to sell anyone on getting a CC, I get nothing out of it. I'm trying to help people that don't understand what it's for or why they should get one. By all means, if you just don't want to get one, move on and don't, nobody cares and it's your decision. But don't tell people it's a hoax and doesn't work. All of that oil people are collecting in their CCs would have been passed through and reburnt. Some of it would have baked onto the valves. This isn't a new thing, it's been that way for a long time. The vehicle manufacturers do a reasonable amount to reduce the oil passed but can't get rid of it all, neither will a CC but it removes even more. If the manufacturers attempt was complete, there'd be no oil in the CC, simple as that.

As for the plugs, I've been telling people the same thing on the plugs all along. If you're using an aftermarket tune, you should first take the recommendation of the tuner. Ford knows what plug is needed stock and for the average driver. If you change that with an aftermarket tune, the tuner is now the best source for that info. Then after taking that advice you should be monitoring the condition of your plugs and determine for your specific needs if they are indeed the correct plug for you. Ford Performance determined the stock plugs are suitable for their tune and that's what should be used. However if you have the FP tune and you primarily race with your car pushing it hard most of the time, they might need to go to a colder plug but anyone racing should already know that.

So much misinterpretation here,

1st. I was obviously talking about oil vapor, (what else would it be anti freeze?)

2nd. as repeated millions of times the caught oil is not evidence of efficiency of desired benefits, if it was undeniable evidence no one would be discussing this especially GM engineers spoke out about this, why would they disagree if its undeniable as you say?

3d. The fact of the matter is pushing your car to higher levels and adding more power DOES increase cylinder pressure, that's why they use CC for track for the most part. not sure what your talking about. Ask your self this, if two EB's driven the same amount of miles in one day, one with double the power on the track the other stock "normal driven"; which one is going to have more oil in the can? Thus the second point how much oil is caught in the course of 3k miles versus a single track day? Does 3oz in a long course have a significant impact versus 3oz in a single day, my opinion is probably not.

4th. Oil vapor still flows through at the temperature ideal for coking CC or no CC, how effective is the CC we don't know, there is no measurement factually based data for comparisons on it's efficiency. It's simply your opinion, its all theoretical . Evidence points towards it's more useful for track than normal driving.

5th. Who said you sold cans? And when did I say it was a hoax? Like you said yourself if you bought one that's your right you don't need to force people by saying it's fact you need one when it's simply your opinion. Your happy with yours move on. I am just trying to help people not get sheeped into buying something that is simply is not factual but parroted opinion based just because there is SOME truth to it for extreme situations (never said it was a hoax).

6th. Spark plugs was just an example of reading between the lines, and it parallels to this situation where certain things are beneficial in more extreme situations such as a catch can, but fact of the matter is the stock plugs run best on a mostly stock setup and there is no need to go out of your way to get after market plugs the same way as a CC for mostly daily use. Cause as you say no one will not pay for your misfortunes only you.

 

[AlyourPal]

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[Marvinmadman]

So much misinterpretation here,

1st. I was obviously talking about oil vapor, (what else would it be anti freeze?)

2nd. as repeated millions of times the caught oil is not evidence of efficiency of desired benefits, if it was undeniable evidence no one would be discussing this especially GM engineers spoke out about this, why would they disagree if its undeniable as you say?

3d. The fact of the matter is pushing your car to higher levels and adding more power DOES increase cylinder pressure, that's why they use CC for track for the most part. not sure what your talking about. Ask your self this, if two EB's driven the same amount of miles in one day, one with double the power on the track the other stock "normal driven"; which one is going to have more oil in the can? Thus the second point how much oil is caught in the course of 3k miles versus a single track day? Does 3oz in a long course have a significant impact versus 3oz in a single day, my opinion is probably not.

4th. Oil vapor still flows through at the temperature ideal for coking CC or no CC, how effective is the CC we don't know, there is no measurement factually based data for comparisons on it's efficiency. It's simply your opinion, its all theoretical . Evidence points towards it's more useful for track than normal driving.

5th. Who said you sold cans? And when did I say it was a hoax? Like you said yourself if you bought one that's your right you don't need to force people by saying it's fact you need one when it's simply your opinion. Your happy with yours move on. I am just trying to help people not get sheeped into buying something that is simply is not factual but parroted opinion based just because there is SOME truth to it for extreme situations (never said it was a hoax).

6th. Spark plugs was just an example of reading between the lines, and it parallels to this situation where certain things are beneficial in more extreme situations such as a catch can, but fact of the matter is the stock plugs run best on a mostly stock setup and there is no need to go out of your way to get after market plugs the same way as a CC for mostly daily use. Cause as you say no one will not pay for your misfortunes only you.

I'm assuming you don't have a downpipe.

 

[jbailer]

So much misinterpretation here,

1st. I was obviously talking about oil vapor, (what else would it be anti freeze?)

2nd. as repeated millions of times the caught oil is not evidence of efficiency of desired benefits, if it was undeniable evidence no one would be discussing this especially GM engineers spoke out about this, why would they disagree if its undeniable as you say?

3d. The fact of the matter is pushing your car to higher levels and adding more power DOES increase cylinder pressure, that's why they use CC for track for the most part. not sure what your talking about. Ask your self this, if two EB's driven the same amount of miles in one day, one with double the power on the track the other stock "normal driven"; which one is going to have more oil in the can? Thus the second point how much oil is caught in the course of 3k miles versus a single track day? Does 3oz in a long course have a significant impact versus 3oz in a single day, my opinion is probably not.

4th. Oil vapor still flows through at the temperature ideal for coking CC or no CC, how effective is the CC we don't know, there is no measurement factually based data for comparisons on it's efficiency. It's simply your opinion, its all theoretical . Evidence points towards it's more useful for track than normal driving.

5th. Who said you sold cans? And when did I say it was a hoax? Like you said yourself if you bought one that's your right you don't need to force people by saying it's fact you need one when it's simply your opinion. Your happy with yours move on. I am just trying to help people not get sheeped into buying something that is simply is not factual but parroted opinion based just because there is SOME truth to it for extreme situations (never said it was a hoax).

6th. Spark plugs was just an example of reading between the lines, and it parallels to this situation where certain things are beneficial in more extreme situations such as a catch can, but fact of the matter is the stock plugs run best on a mostly stock setup and there is no need to go out of your way to get after market plugs the same way as a CC for mostly daily use. Cause as you say no one will not pay for your misfortunes only you.

LOL, it sounds like you are just looking for reasons to argue and saying stupid things so that's where my input ends. I'm not trying to argue or convince someone to do something they don't want to do. I think it's kind of silly though, if you just don't want to buy/use a CC, don't. Why go on a public forum and try to convince people they are bad or there are no benefits. You obviously don't want to listen to reason, just move on and don't do it. There are tons of lurkers. It's great that you participate in the forum. There are MANY people that just read for every one person that posts. People come and read there's no benefit to a CC and they just skip it when they could've reduced the amount of carbon buildup on their valves. For every 1 article you find on the Internet that say there is no real benefit to a CC, there's probably 30 that say there is. Do some research. Here, I did a quick Google search and grabbed the first video I saw. [ame="[MEDIA=youtube]PS8riAae_bM[/MEDIA]"]

I'm out, good luck...

 

[Chef jpd]

Jbailer, you are pissing into the wind...........

 

[jbailer]

Jbailer, you are pissing into the wind...........

i finally realized that so I'm leaving to clean up. :lol:

 

[jtmat]

Well, we have to go through this every couple of months... it is a cylcle.... catch cans, intercoolers, catch cans, tune+,intercoolers, catch cans, all other tuners....

Stuff in between all of that is interesting at least....

As I say "let me blow my motor in peace..."

 

[Turbong]

LOL, it sounds like you are just looking for reasons to argue and saying stupid things so that's where my input ends. I'm not trying to argue or convince someone to do something they don't want to do. I think it's kind of silly though, if you just don't want to buy/use a CC, don't. Why go on a public forum and try to convince people they are bad or there are no benefits. You obviously don't want to listen to reason, just move on and don't do it. There are tons of lurkers. It's great that you participate in the forum. There are MANY people that just read for every one person that posts. People come and read there's no benefit to a CC and they just skip it when they could've reduced the amount of carbon buildup on their valves. For every 1 article you find on the Internet that say there is no real benefit to a CC, there's probably 30 that say there is. Do some research. Here, I did a quick Google search and grabbed the first video I saw.
I'm out, good luck...

No argument, just none sense reply, just they said so so it must be true. Show me undeniable evidence l buy one in a heart beat that's the difference. Peace.

 

[Marvinmadman]

Stock tune with a downpipe. Smoked at idle immediately after. Easy driving and 3 oz caught in 1 week.

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