Tracking the EcoBoost

[c_reber]

Anyone have good weight figures on EBPP vs GTPP? I doubt it's 300#. I'd say it's more like a 120-200LBS weight savings tops.

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[xXANCHORMONXx]

Anyone have good weight figures on EBPP vs GTPP? I doubt it's 300#. I'd say it's more like a 120-200LBS weight savings tops.

With a single exit exhaust, rear seat delete, and forged wheels with an empty tank of gas I was at 3390 without me in it.

200lbs is the difference tops

 

[EFI]

Curb weight of the GT (base at least) is right at 3700lbs. By the example above the EB is 3450, so about 250lbs difference it seems.

 

[CrazedAntelope]

I can go into detail on why you'd be making a massive mistake. Your reasons are good on why you think the EB could be better. There's a reason I sold that POS and bought a GT350, a GTPP was a close option as well.

I agree you've probably had the most modified for road course and most tracked EB. Can you give the spark notes of why the EB is not a good option for the road course?

I'm not trying to spur on an argument, but I'd like to hear from somebody who's been there, done that.

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

I agree you've probably had the most modified for road course and most tracked EB. Can you give the spark notes of why the EB is not a good option for the road course?

I'm not trying to spur on an argument, but I'd like to hear from somebody who's been there, done that.

1. consistency, even with the biggest baddest IC from ATM I still had heat soak issues. The solution was meth injection which just one more thing to fail.

2. Overall cooling, the car needs an oil cooler. I put in a mishimoto rad and a 25 row oil cooler but it wasn't enough. I ended up running twin 25 row oil coolers with custom ducting in the oem fog light locations. At that point the motor was happy.

3. Suspension was trash, car rolled far too much and the front end felt like a boat. I installed BMRs entire catalog on the car along with the first set of Feal coilovers for the s550.

4. The EB pp brakes are trash, I upgraded the brakes to GTPP brembos with AP 2 piece discs. This corrected that.

5. As I got much faster the transmission had issues with not shifting smoothly. It needed a pump as it was overheating.

6. The diff even with a single exit exhaust was overheating. It began to clunk, by clunk I mean the bearings went out.

The last two will happen to any GT or EB but you get the point.

Last thing oem turbo is junk as well. You have a powerband with zero top end. The 7670 I ran corrected that as well. I was able to chase down Z28s, corvettes, 911s and more with ease.

 

[BTM]

Lots of good opinions here, so I thought I'd throw mine in too...

"Understeer" is different from "good handling", although neither is an absolute term, and the latter is more subjective. Understeer can be tuned out of almost any car with good chassis setup, but handling is affected by weight, and you will always feel this in side-to-side transitions and the highest achievable cornering speed relative to your tire width, tire compound, and effective downforce.

The S550 in any trim can be set up to turn in sharply, and have neutral characteristics at the traction limit when cornering, i.e. not push or try to spin, but go into a nice 4-wheel slide. My GT PP is much different in this respect than a stock GT PP, and to get there, it took stiffer springs/dampers/sways, IRS cradle stiffening, sticky square tires with stiff sidewall (RE-71R), and a performance alignment (aggressive camber, some toe-out in front, just a bit toe-in in rear).

The EB isn't lighter enough to fundamentally change this dynamic, and the car will still be one that you maximize straight line speed and brake heavily, and cornering speeds will be lower than the lighter cars.

If you really want the feel of a light, great-handling, quick-transitioning and high corner speed car, you should start with a NA/B/C Miata, Toyobaru 86, or Boxster (older ones are cheap! mid-engine!), then add power if you feel that you need it after getting suspension and aero dialed in.... :first:

 

[F0J]

1. consistency, even with the biggest baddest IC from ATM I still had heat soak issues. The solution was meth injection which just one more thing to fail.

2. Overall cooling, the car needs an oil cooler. I put in a mishimoto rad and a 25 row oil cooler but it wasn't enough. I ended up running twin 25 row oil coolers with custom ducting in the oem fog light locations. At that point the motor was happy.

3. Suspension was trash, car rolled far too much and the front end felt like a boat. I installed BMRs entire catalog on the car along with the first set of Feal coilovers for the s550.

4. The EB pp brakes are trash, I upgraded the brakes to GTPP brembos with AP 2 piece discs. This corrected that.

5. As I got much faster the transmission had issues with not shifting smoothly. It needed a pump as it was overheating.

6. The diff even with a single exit exhaust was overheating. It began to clunk, by clunk I mean the bearings went out.

The last two will happen to any GT or EB but you get the point.

Last thing oem turbo is junk as well. You have a powerband with zero top end. The 7670 I ran corrected that as well. I was able to chase down Z28s, corvettes, 911s and more with ease.

Sincere thanks for sharing.

Lots of good opinions here, so I thought I'd throw mine in too...

"Understeer" is different from "good handling", although neither is an absolute term, and the latter is more subjective. Understeer can be tuned out of almost any car with good chassis setup, but handling is affected by weight, and you will always feel this in side-to-side transitions and the highest achievable cornering speed relative to your tire width, tire compound, and effective downforce.

The S550 in any trim can be set up to turn in sharply, and have neutral characteristics at the traction limit when cornering, i.e. not push or try to spin, but go into a nice 4-wheel slide. My GT PP is much different in this respect than a stock GT PP, and to get there, it took stiffer springs/dampers/sways, IRS cradle stiffening, sticky square tires with stiff sidewall (RE-71R), and a performance alignment (aggressive camber, some toe-out in front, just a bit toe-in in rear).

The EB isn't lighter enough to fundamentally change this dynamic, and the car will still be one that you maximize straight line speed and brake heavily, and cornering speeds will be lower than the lighter cars.

If you really want the feel of a light, great-handling, quick-transitioning and high corner speed car, you should start with a NA/B/C Miata, Toyobaru 86, or Boxster (older ones are cheap! mid-engine!), then add power if you feel that you need it after getting suspension and aero dialed in.... :first:

My lanky 6'4" frame doesn't fit in most sports cars :( especially with a helmet.

But that's fine and like you say, with quality chassis mods, I should be able to tune the car's behaviour to whatever I prefer.

 

[BTM]

My lanky 6'4" frame doesn't fit in most sports cars :( especially with a helmet.

Ha! Same boat - "BTM" is for Big Tall Monkey, which was my college nickname, as I'm 6'7". Rare for sports cars to fit me, which is why I got the S550. Even with stock base seats (not Recaros, oddly enough, they sit higher), I rub headliner with helmet. Corbeau seats fixed that :clap2:

 

[F0J]

Ha! Same boat - "BTM" is for Big Tall Monkey, which was my college nickname, as I'm 6'7". Rare for sports cars to fit me, which is why I got the S550. Even with stock base seats (not Recaros, oddly enough, they sit higher), I rub headliner with helmet. Corbeau seats fixed that :clap2:

Haha my French nick name is "Long" and my English one is "Lanky".

I fit in a Cayman just as well but not a 911 (though with buckets on a lowered rail it'd be tight). Other cars were too close to call.

.. I was hoping that someone would chime in about the weight affecting brake performance etc. etc. but I guess there's no avoiding spending big bucks on proper mods for the track.

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

I track mine, I am not serious serious but want to do the best I can. EBPP brakes are a lot better than the standard ones and had no problems with track...I added SS Steeda brake lines and better brake fluid. I passed my share of V8 cars including a few older Mustang GT etc. In the corners you still get creamed by the Miata and S2000. I am tall too won't fit in a lot of cars. I tried a track day with a Lambo and my neck was crunched.

 

[BTM]

.. I was hoping that someone would chime in about the weight affecting brake performance etc. etc. but I guess there's no avoiding spending big bucks on proper mods for the track.

Yes....fast, heavy cars with comparatively low cornering traction are absolutely murder on brakes.

Only 3 ways to deal with this;

1) larger rotor & caliper size - GT PP brakes are awesome, all others less so

2) track-friendly pads - need to work well at high temps you never see on street, but regardless you'll go through a lot of them. G-LOC is great

3) BRAKE COOLING!! (front) - too many ignore this, even the stock GT PP molded under-nose channels are nowhere near enough, and I don't think the other models even have that. Need actual ducts feeding cooling air, just like real race cars. JLT has good ones, and there are others.

Do all the above, and you can make any S550 stop very well, consistently, for at least a 20min track session, which is the longest I've ever pushed hard for. But no way to avoid spending $$$ on pads, and ultimately rotors. The cars are hard on all consumables.

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

X a million for the GTPP calipers, ss lines and 2 piece discs. That caliper is a forged one piece monobloc, doesn't get much better than that.

 

[F0J]

X a million for the GTPP calipers, ss lines and 2 piece discs. That caliper is a forged one piece monobloc, doesn't get much better than that.

I understand why you have a GT350. Any reason I shouldn't upgrade that way? A local dealership has 11 of them right now and I might be able to get a deal.

Things are a little different at that price range though (Corvette, Porsche, Truck+Formula Ford, spec Miata, etc.)

 

[xXANCHORMONXx]

I understand why you have a GT350. Any reason I shouldn't upgrade that way? A local dealership has 11 of them right now and I might be able to get a deal.

Things are a little different at that price range though (Corvette, Porsche, Truck+Formula Ford, spec Miata, etc.)

The only downside is the pad replacement cost.

The next best option is the AP kit by Essex, not the Stillen AP kit. That one is a downgrade from the GT pp setup

 

[F0J]

The only downside is the pad replacement cost.

The next best option is the AP kit by Essex, not the Stillen AP kit. That one is a downgrade from the GT pp setup

Brake pads - that's all you did to the car?

I'll have to do some research or maybe start another thread.

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