Dodge Challenger Demon

[Seceda91]

Quickest or fastest almost never equates to "best". Best in a definable measure? Sure. Best from a subjective point of view, which as a consumer should be the only one that matters, almost never. I think the GT350/R is a better car than anything Dodge or Chevrolet have ever offered, regardless of whether they cars they do produce are quicker in a straight line or produce better lap times.

The ACR has gotten nothing but criticism in any subject area other than its on-track performance. Almost nobody has said that it was a good, or even fun, car for the road where we spend most of our time.

The Hellcat can dominate in a straight line, with DR's. IMO Dodge is looking and focusing on the "extreme" ends of the spectrum and doesn't offer anything in the middle ground. I hope they do come out with something for the segment I speak of, because it'll make the others produce better cars as competition as well

I should note that I am by no means a "Ford Fanboy". This is my first Ford, and will probably be the only Ford I ever buy as nothing else they sell has ever interested me.

I agree with your points and I think you nailed it. I would only disagree that despite I think the GT350R is a hell of a car, Chevy does have the Grand Sport that I feel can top the GT350R in handling and straightline. Granted, the GS is more expensive.. Chevy's ZL1 (No matter how much crap I talk about it) holds it's own against the R too.. I never compare the ZL1 to the R tho since they aren't direct competitors. GT500 is the ZL1's competitor and I will bet a months pay it will make ZL1 owner's cry when it comes out.

What's holding Dodge from combining the power of a hellcat along with the handling of the Viper? Money, cost and R&D. You're right, Dodge likes to be extreme at only one aspect (Viper for handling, Hellcat/Demon for straights)

At this point, I have to give the crown to the Z06 (even w/ the overheating issues) for having the best of both worlds. Chevy is not done as well since the Zora will be making it's debut soon.

We will see soon and I'm looking forward to how fast the Demon can be on the straights since we all know it's not going to break any records at Nurburgring.

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[J_Maher_AMG]

I agree with your points and I think you nailed it. I would only disagree that despite I think the GT350R is a hell of a car, Chevy does have the Grand Sport that I feel can top the GT350R in handling and straightline. Granted, the GS is more expensive.. Chevy's ZL1 (No matter how much crap I talk about it) holds it's own against the R too.. I never compare the ZL1 to the R tho since they aren't direct competitors. GT500 is the ZL1's competitor and I will bet a months pay it will make ZL1 owner's cry when it comes out.

What's holding Dodge from combining the power of a hellcat along with the handling of the Viper? Money, cost and R&D. You're right, Dodge likes to be extreme at only one aspect (Viper for handling, Hellcat/Demon for straights)

At this point, I have to give the crown to the Z06 (even w/ the overheating issues) for having the best of both worlds. Chevy is not done as well since the Zora will be making it's debut soon.

We will see soon and I'm looking forward to how fast the Demon can be on the straights since we all know it's not going to break any records at Nurburgring.

I agree the Grand Sport is a hell of a car, and the Z06 in unbelievable in terms of combining handling and straight line. I also concede that the GS will mop the R on track; straight-line not so much simply because it is slightly heavier than a Stingray, but with the same power, but again, they're pretty well even.

When I said I thought the GT350/R was better, I meant in terms of a fun drivers car that I want to own. The GS and Z06 might be a hell of a lot faster, but they don't interest me as much as the R did. I could have easily bought a Z06, and to be honest I briefly considered it, but after spending a lot of time in a 15' Stingray, I just knew that it wasn't perfect for what I wanted.

I also agree that the ZL1 should be a hell of a contender, with the 10spd auto it sure as hell should beat the R on track given its extra 124hp and over 220tq more! But I still think it is nowhere near the car that the GT350/R is.

You can make anything fast if you want to, but you can't make any car truly satisfying, and I think that is where the GT350/R shines.

I think the Demon will run 10's on street tires and low-mid 10's with the DR's in its optional packaging. People are expecting 850+hp, so we'll see haha

 

[dron_jones]

I love this, so many bruises from folks hopping on and off the bandwagon.

I could care less what people buy but its a joke to me that people are losing faith in Ford because "what have they done for me lately". I am no ford fanboy but
- GT350/R Track monster
- GT true super car
- Focus WRX STI competition
- Ford Raptor
- Announced return of Bronco
- Announced return of Ranger

Seems to me like Ford is doing quite a bit these days, just because they haven't slapped a massive blower on a car so that you can stat sheet argue with the Demon/ZL1 guys doesn't mean that they have nothing going on... and the comment that they are more focused on hybrids? Give your head a shake. I can't remember the last time ford had this many performance cars which have been so well received by enthusiasts.

 

[dgc333]

FWIW, was watching Detroit Muscle yesterday and they visited the Bob Bounderant High Performance Driving School. They use Hellcats as the student cars at the school.

 

[Seceda91]

I agree the Grand Sport is a hell of a car, and the Z06 in unbelievable in terms of combining handling and straight line. I also concede that the GS will mop the R on track; straight-line not so much simply because it is slightly heavier than a Stingray, but with the same power, but again, they're pretty well even.

When I said I thought the GT350/R was better, I meant in terms of a fun drivers car that I want to own. The GS and Z06 might be a hell of a lot faster, but they don't interest me as much as the R did. I could have easily bought a Z06, and to be honest I briefly considered it, but after spending a lot of time in a 15' Stingray, I just knew that it wasn't perfect for what I wanted.

I also agree that the ZL1 should be a hell of a contender, with the 10spd auto it sure as hell should beat the R on track given its extra 124hp and over 220tq more! But I still think it is nowhere near the car that the GT350/R is.

You can make anything fast if you want to, but you can't make any car truly satisfying, and I think that is where the GT350/R shines.

I think the Demon will run 10's on street tires and low-mid 10's with the DR's in its optional packaging. People are expecting 850+hp, so we'll see haha

I love your honesty and perspective. Good points and I pretty much agree with everything you said.

IMO, the cars that exhibits the most fun will be the GT350's, Z/28's, 1LE's heck even the SS and GT's.. Muscle cars that handle = FUN!

The Vette's, GTR's, Vipers are in their own class as expensive ($80k+) sport cars and I would imagine you can only have so much fun with it outside of the track.

Did you drive a Stingray with Z/51? I never drove the C7 Vette and with a base barebones Stingray costing $55k, it seems pretty expensive since the options add to the price pretty fast. I honestly would take a Z06 over anything right now lol.. That car is the closest thing to a super car in terms of looks and performance.

 

[machsmith]

I love this, so many bruises from folks hopping on and off the bandwagon.

I could care less what people buy but its a joke to me that people are losing faith in Ford because "what have they done for me lately". I am no ford fanboy but
- GT350/R Track monster
- GT true super car
- Focus WRX STI competition
- Ford Raptor
- Announced return of Bronco
- Announced return of Ranger

Seems to me like Ford is doing quite a bit these days, just because they haven't slapped a massive blower on a car so that you can stat sheet argue with the Demon/ZL1 guys doesn't mean that they have nothing going on... and the comment that they are more focused on hybrids? Give your head a shake. I can't remember the last time ford had this many performance cars which have been so well received by enthusiasts.

Where are the 12 by 20 they stated 3 years ago? I guess my standards are higher than most, when I say something I do it. So far there are 5 or 6 ford performance vehicles. Where the hell are the rest? The bronco isn't going to be a FP vehicle the first year (2020) if anything it will be a 2021.

If your not going to live up to your word, just don't say the shit to begin with. Even if these performance vehicles didn't satisfy my expectations, I still want to see what they are. I bought a gt350r and knew it wasn't the best car in its segment, the more options out there the better.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.auto...new-global-performance-vehicles-through-2020/

I have no problem buying other brands. Shortly, I'll have another brand in the garage.

 

[dron_jones]

Where are the 12 by 20 they stated 3 years ago? I guess my standards are higher than most, when I say something I do it. So far there are 5 or 6 ford performance vehicles. Where the hell are the rest? The bronco isn't going to be a FP vehicle the first year (2020) if anything it will be a 2021.

If your not going to live up to your word, just don't say the shit to begin with. Even if these performance vehicles didn't satisfy my expectations, I still want to see what they are. I bought a gt350r and knew it wasn't the best car in its segment, the more options out there the better.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.auto...new-global-performance-vehicles-through-2020/

I have no problem buying other brands. Shortly, I'll have another brand in the garage.

Its only been 2 years since that announcement and its not 2020 yet... You can either wait until 2020 and see or make the decision to go another route but saying they aren't living up to their word is a bit premature

 

[machsmith]

Its only been 2 years since that announcement and its not 2020 yet... You can either wait until 2020 and see or make the decision to go another route but saying they aren't living up to their word is a bit premature

We'll see what happens but wouldn't you think that telling the public with what is coming would be in the interest to potential buyers? I suppose it doesn't matter to them because they will sell them regardless. What about a potential buyer who has to save up their money before a purchase? Not really fair to them. Maybe that's why my business does great, there is no bullshit, and I think of the customer first, in every way.

It's not like stats need to be stated, it would be nice to know what the vehicle is. They arent concealing any specifics by just stating the GT500 is coming, a thunderbird, a torino etc.

This just makes me believe they are pulling it out of their asses as they go. Not a very good business model. Maybe they are just hoping everyone forgot about their 12 by 20 so they can squeeze in 7 by 20 haha. It's all good man, I'll be putting another brand in the stable anyway because whatever ford brings , other than only what a movie star can be able to purchase from them, won't be able to compair.

 

[dron_jones]

We'll see what happens but wouldn't you think that telling the public with what is coming would be in the interest to potential buyers? I suppose it doesn't matter to them because they will sell them regardless. What about a potential buyer who has to save up their money before a purchase? Not really fair to them. Maybe that's why my business does great, there is no bullshit, and I think of the customer first, in every way.

It's not like stats need to be stated, it would be nice to know what the vehicle is. They arent concealing any specifics by just stating the GT500 is coming, a thunderbird, a torino etc.

This just makes me believe they are pulling it out of their asses as they go. Not a very good business model. Maybe they are just hoping everyone forgot about their 12 by 20 so they can squeeze in 7 by 20 haha. It's all good man, I'll be putting another brand in the stable anyway because whatever ford brings , other than only what a movie star can be able to purchase from them, won't be able to compair.

Sorry but this is just comical. You are comparing your own personal business that you know 100% about, to a multi-billion global company that you aren't involved in or privy to any of the decision making and claiming its not customer focused because they won't tell you what car is coming out next year because you are ready now with your money?

You need to make the best decision for yourself based on the information that you have or don't have but i wouldn't confuse your frustration of the inconvenient timing with "pulling things out of their asses" or not being customer focused

 

[Twin Turbo]

You know what amazed me most about the recent "hybrid" press conference? The simple fact that Ford were discussing future product.......this is very, very unusual for them

At any other event, any person from Dave Pericak down to a Ford rep manning a show booth, and they'll say "we don't discuss future product".

I had that very answer from Dave Pericak when I asked him the next special Mustang would be a Mach 1 ;)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to be upfront about future product, but that's just how they operate.

Perhaps it'd be a fun separate thread to work out what might be in the pipeline. I do love your suggestion of Torino and Thunderbird, although I fear there little to no chance. Personally, I'd also like a new Falcon. Base them all off the S650 chassis........but then I guess they wouldn't be here by 2020 ;)

 

[dron_jones]

You know what amazed me most about the recent "hybrid" press conference? The simple fact that Ford were discussing future product.......this is very, very unusual for them

I too found this interesting. Most times companies refrain from discussing future development because they don't want to lose their competitive advantage. One reason companies do make these announcements early is because they want to let the rest of the industry know which way they are moving. Some of this technology and development requires infrastructure changes, corporate partnerships, supplier development. If GM, FCA, Toyota take notice and make adjustments it can help ford achieve its goals that would not be possible on their own. Similar to the joint partnership that ford developed in europe with BMW and VW for electric vehicle charging infrastructure/services

 

[machsmith]

Thanks dron, it was supposed to be a little funny. Glad you see it.
And yes, I do compair my measly business model to theirs. I've been in business for 15 years they have been in business for 100. If I had any ambition it's hard to say what mine would be like in 100. All I know is that from the vehicles I've bought from ford so far and the buying process couldn't be more ancient. Not to mention ford dealers trying to rake people over the coals adm wise. Dealers not knowing anything about their product. Cotus not working, etc. Thousands of raptors sitting in snow for months, oil line recalls. People that order first getting put last in line to executives and friends of executives. Haha. The list literally goes on forever. I wouldn't say that just because ford is a global company it means it manages better than mine. Bigger doesn't mean better. Of course you probably know this already?

 

[dron_jones]

Thanks dron, it was supposed to be a little funny. Glad you see it.
And yes, I do compair my measly business model to theirs. I've been in business for 15 years they have been in business for 100. If I had any ambition it's hard to say what mine would be like in 100. All I know is that from the vehicles I've bought from ford so far and the buying process couldn't be more ancient. Not to mention ford dealers trying to rake people over the coals adm wise. Dealers not knowing anything about their product. Cotus not working, etc. Thousands of raptors sitting in snow for months, oil line recalls. People that order first getting put last in line to executives and friends of executives. Haha. The list literally goes on forever. I wouldn't say that just because ford is a global company it means it manages better than mine. Bigger doesn't mean better. Of course you probably know this already?

So hard to tell context people are talking in on forums, serious or sarcastic... if only we had some emotional icons or emoticons to help us ;)

As for your other point, i don't disagree with anything you have written and I'm not arguing Ford is the best customer service company in the world or that they don't have a lot of ways they can improve, but your previous point was in relation to the fact that they haven't made any announcements and that they aren't letting people know in advance what is coming, and claiming this its not fair to customers, or bullshit practices etc etc... I am simply saying that this point is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Hack]

You know what amazed me most about the recent "hybrid" press conference? The simple fact that Ford were discussing future product.......this is very, very unusual for them

I ASSUME that they did it because they want to judge a reaction from their buyers. Kind of like when they were going to make the Mustang front wheel drive. I know I for one am really glad that Ford listened and didn't go that way.

I know that my reaction to a hybrid Mustang could hardly be more negative. I'm surprised at how many people on this forum seem not to care.

 

[1320']

I know that my reaction to a hybrid Mustang could hardly be more negative. I'm surprised at how many people on this forum seem not to care.

Because it's an option and not a total line conversion.

It's no different than offering the Turbo 4 as an option..just because one person doesn't want it doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

Too many Mustang owners, and "enthusiast car" owners in general, think that because THEY don't prefer something it must mean it shouldn't be permitted or an option.

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