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3.31 to 3.73 Torsen Impressions for EB Mustang

TheLion

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My setup is in the sig. Obviously I'm limited on doing a true drag launch due to all season tires. But I wanted to get the car to respond the way I think it should before everything else.

My base model came with 3.31's. I will say this bluntly, 3.31's only consideration in the ecoboost is fuel economy. There was no performance consideration at all. It's not even a standard option in the GT (3.55 standard or 3.73 Torsen for PP).

Launching even on all seasons was tricky to say the least. If you didn't modulate throttle and clutch just right, you would bog the engine or you would over torque and just break traction.

The lower gearing allows much easier modulation of the clutch and throttle to more optimally get it moving. I don't think I've ever bogged down in 2nd and only slightly in 3rd even with a botched 2-3 shift. It may a be a bit of a different story on a stick drag strip with 305 ultra high performance rear tires...but I know other's running full bolt on's have noted that 2-3 can be a bit tricky without bogging the engine down, at least when running a full bolt on with a 3.55 rear and a manual. I realize most of you are running 3.55 PP cars and not base models or 3.15 auto's. But for those with a stick, the 3.73's do work very well.

I do not feel hey are too short at all for daily driving, in fact I think they are just right, especially for any car not making extreme power. Unless your trapping over 120 (top of 4th at 7k), the 3.73's will do very well on the 1/4 as you still shouldn't have an extra shift. This car will always be a pump gas car, I may go big turbo in a a couple years, but for next couple years it will remain stock internals and turbo with 93 pump gas and it really is a great gearing that feels "just right" for car at this power level. It would do well even with a relatively stock car.

For daily driving and fuel economy, I was still getting around 30~31 on the highway over a 25 mile jaunt, so not much change. My combined mileage was actually up a tad, from 25.3 to 25.6...at least until I started doing a bunch of spirited driving :-).

You can tell some what how a car is going to respond during daily driving when you rev up into the power band but with light throttle. With the 3.31's it never felt "peppy" even at light throttle, I had to step on it a bit to get that nice smooth consistent pull during normal driving. With the 3.73's I can now get a nice smooth consistent pull during normal driving without really much throttle at all. The car just feels eager to go. Hopefully towards the end of October here I"ll get a chance to go to the strip and see what I can do with all seasons.

Is this a 12 second car? Yah, but it will be a big challenge getting into the 12's with all seasons and a manual. However other than a down pipe, there's not much left in the bolt on category to do, so I think the power is there, especially with this 3.73 gearing and Torsen rear.

My impressions of the Torsen are the following: if you autocross you NEED one. If your drag and street you can live without, but I would still recommend it as an upgrade. The car puts down power exiting corners and on inconsistent traction surfaces far better. It's a night and day difference.

I would say the best bang for your buck would be (on an otherwise stock car) an inter cooler, a tune and a 3.73 Torsen rear. That combination will change the entire dynamic of the car. I could only imagine how hot of a selling car this would be if it came with those 3 upgrades from the factory, you could easily price in the added cost and it would sell like hot cakes (even though they already are). Then again GT sales would inevitably decline...
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Fast64ranchero

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The more you drive it, the more you'll like them. To give you hope I just went 11.600 @ 122.81 with 3.73's and manual trans
 
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TheLion

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5.0yote

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Yeah I am thinking of going to 3.73s myself, I have 3.55s now but it does not feel at all like my 11 V6 did going to 3.55s first gear was useless but in the EBM the 3.55s I still ride first gear long it does not feel like there was a change. Very odd.

When you went with the Torsen and 3.73s did you have to flash your BCM for the ABS module or was your speedo auto corrected like I believe it should have?
 
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TheLion

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Yeah I am thinking of going to 3.73s myself, I have 3.55s now but it does not feel at all like my 11 V6 did going to 3.55s first gear was useless but in the EBM the 3.55s I still ride first gear long it does not feel like there was a change. Very odd.

When you went with the Torsen and 3.73s did you have to flash your BCM for the ABS module or was your speedo auto corrected like I believe it should have?
I have not flashed it yet, I asked LMS about it and they pointed me to a $235 ford oem programmer module for making calibrations, the dealer (which I called and they said they didn't know if they could do that) or the pro-cal / sct / cobb aka any tuner (their system is an PCM flasher / code reader only).

I'm still not 100% sure if it even needs done, the cruise control is dead nutz on. My GPS records the same speed I set my cruise to. The Speed is pretty darn close, it reads within 1-2 mph at most of the GPS and cruise (the fat needle isn't super precise for determining speed to that accuracy anyway unlike my certified speedo in the 9C1 police impala I had during college).

So I'm really starting to wonder if I even need to have any cal done. Perhaps the speedo reads via axel rotation (aka wheel sensors) rather than via trans gearing? If it reads via axel speed then no cal would be needed, if it reads via trans speed then a cal is in order but I"m starting to think it's unnecessary.
 
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TheLion

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Yeah I am thinking of going to 3.73s myself, I have 3.55s now but it does not feel at all like my 11 V6 did going to 3.55s first gear was useless but in the EBM the 3.55s I still ride first gear long it does not feel like there was a change. Very odd.

When you went with the Torsen and 3.73s did you have to flash your BCM for the ABS module or was your speedo auto corrected like I believe it should have?
BTW the MT-82 transmission comes in different gearing flavors. It's possible the 11 V6 shared the same ratios as the 11 V8's aka also the S550 V8's if I'm not mistaken.

The MT-82's in the EB's / V6's are actually shorter in 1-4 and 6th (numerically higher) than the V8, although not by a much.

So 3.73 in an S550 EB or V6 results in a slightly shorter 1-4 and 6th than it would in a S550 V8 with the same rear end.

Given that, its seems counter to your experience, I would think you would feel the opposite, but maybe this is the difference in the torque / power curves of a TDI 4-cyl vs. an NA V6. The V6 likely feels quicker to respond where the TDI 4-cyl feels more of a build up in power, like a turbo diesel, which literally it is of very similar architecture overall to turbo diesels.

Although given your setup in your sig I wouldn't think you should feel any lag, maybe with a bone stock car, but not a tuned EB with an inter cooler upgrade...at any rate I really like the 3.73's and I think it's a really good gearing for drag / auto cross and daily driving. This is from some one going from 3.31's, I don't feel it's too short, but just right. Sure 1st is notably shorter, but I still have enough time to react to shift, it's not like 1st is so short the car red lines before I'm able and read to shift to 2nd.
 

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BTW the MT-82 transmission comes in different gearing flavors. It's possible the 11 V6 shared the same ratios as the 11 V8's aka also the S550 V8's if I'm not mistaken.

The MT-82's in the EB's / V6's are actually shorter in 1-4 and 6th (numerically higher) than the V8, although not by a much.

So 3.73 in an S550 EB or V6 results in a slightly shorter 1-4 and 6th than it would in a S550 V8 with the same rear end.

Given that, its seems counter to your experience, I would think you would feel the opposite, but maybe this is the difference in the torque / power curves of a TDI 4-cyl vs. an NA V6. The V6 likely feels quicker to respond where the TDI 4-cyl feels more of a build up in power, like a turbo diesel, which literally it is of very similar architecture overall to turbo diesels.

Although given your setup in your sig I wouldn't think you should feel any lag, maybe with a bone stock car, but not a tuned EB with an inter cooler upgrade...at any rate I really like the 3.73's and I think it's a really good gearing for drag / auto cross and daily driving. This is from some one going from 3.31's, I don't feel it's too short, but just right. Sure 1st is notably shorter, but I still have enough time to react to shift, it's not like 1st is so short the car red lines before I'm able and read to shift to 2nd.
No, I understand the MT82s gearing is different in different models, I have extensive knowledge of the MT82, even did a 6R80 to MT82 (and rebuilt it) swap in my 11 3.7 Vert, I am just comparing the difference with just 1st gear alone to be vastly different between that (13 MY MT82) and the 16 2.3L version with the same final gearing. I am not sure that my big turbo setup really comes into play considering its usually not in boost anyway till mid/top of first anyway, just how long 1st still feels in comparison.

Can you answer my last part of my last post?
 
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TheLion

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No, I understand the MT82s gearing is different in different models, I have extensive knowledge of the MT82, even did a 6R80 to MT82 (and rebuilt it) swap in my 11 3.7 Vert, I am just comparing the difference with just 1st gear alone to be vastly different between that (13 MY MT82) and the 16 2.3L version with the same final gearing. I am not sure that my big turbo setup really comes into play considering its usually not in boost anyway till mid/top of first anyway, just how long 1st still feels in comparison.

Can you answer my last part of my last post?
See two posts up from yours ;)
 

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See two posts up from yours ;)
Oh shit sorry did not see it, yeah I was pretty sure you are in spec for the min max range that the system is looking for, no need to get that whipple flash tool if not going extremely beyond what its looking for. Mine appears to be dead on as well with the 355s and I have had multiple wheel tire options on my car of different sizes and noted no change in the speedo which is great.

My car stock was 3.31s with 20" wheels so. I suspect you are probably dead on.
 

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So just wondering did the pinion flange from GT diff mate to the manual EB driveshaft afterall no issues? Thanks
 
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So just wondering did the pinion flange from GT diff mate to the manual EB driveshaft afterall no issues? Thanks
Not exactly. I ended up swapping the EB pinion flange to the GT diff, bought 3 pinion flange nuts (only $3 each from the dealer) just in case I needed to take it off or swap back to the stock diff. You can order the pinion flange for $75 but the dealer messed up the order and gave me the drive shaft coupler instead...so I had to re-use the stock pinion flange.

The EB and V6 manual pinion flange is the same as the GT automatic pinion flange interestingly enough. I'm not sure about the automatic EB and V6, but if it has large cut outs on the sides it's the same, if it has the narrow cutouts it's the GT manual style. There are only two types however, one with the narrow cutouts and one with the large cutouts.

My intuition says only the GT manual has the unique type, possibly a different drive shaft. I still need to do the IRS Diff swap write up for home mechanics as there really isn't any good ones on the net for S550 mustangs. Maybe I'll get motivated and do that tonight with lots of big fun photos....

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-4851-M8A

and https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-4851-M8A.pdf
 

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For autocross, there are two things to remember - gear change takes you out of street class and on a faster courses you'll max out in 2nd gear very quickly - at least on a GT.
 

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Not exactly. I ended up swapping the EB pinion flange to the GT diff, bought 3 pinion flange nuts (only $3 each from the dealer) just in case I needed to take it off or swap back to the stock diff. You can order the pinion flange for $75 but the dealer messed up the order and gave me the drive shaft coupler instead...so I had to re-use the stock pinion flange.

The EB and V6 manual pinion flange is the same as the GT automatic pinion flange interestingly enough. I'm not sure about the automatic EB and V6, but if it has large cut outs on the sides it's the same, if it has the narrow cutouts it's the GT manual style. There are only two types however, one with the narrow cutouts and one with the large cutouts.

My intuition says only the GT manual has the unique type, possibly a different drive shaft. I still need to do the IRS Diff swap write up for home mechanics as there really isn't any good ones on the net for S550 mustangs. Maybe I'll get motivated and do that tonight with lots of big fun photos....

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-4851-M8A

and https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-4851-M8A.pdf
When I had to change out my pinion flange when the little woman managed to bend mine in an unfortunate curbing incident, it was a heck of a time getting the correct part from Ford, 3 incorrect flanges later I had him check an Automatic EBM on the floor, and it was the same part as my manual flange, even though the part numbers say it was not. So right now according to the part number I have an auto pinion flange. Took 29 days to get the correct part, was not a highlight of my time spent at the dealer. Mine had the narrow cutouts with the beveled edges on the interior of the cup, the wrong was was larger and rounded bevels.
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