My EcoBoost story

[navair133]

I am only going by the car comparo reviews. Stock v. Stock. I know that the mustang can be modded more. Sort of my point that Ford left hp at the factory. I did read the Motor Trend comparo where the Mustang EB beat the Camaro turbo, but they really aren't same tier, at least by manufacturer marketing. The Camaro with equivilent summer tires beat the EB, although the EB may have been running regular as it was indicated as the fuel choice on the comparo spec sheet. If so I would expect the EB to beat the Camaro turbo if both have equivalent octane and tires. But it should with the big hp and torque difference.

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[Chargersfan81]

Boost max is evil
Boost max doesn't care if your car blows up
Boost max is a piece of crap

Seriously , for your own good , get a tune , slap on some nice tires , do some mods .
There is so much info on here and with some investment , your car will be , can be amazing
I have never heard of a professionally tuned Eco , or any Eco for that matter with a tune from a reputable maker Blowin up . And trust me , some of us push these car HARD:amen:

First mod though , def an intercooler . It won't even void warranty

Read this thread with memeber JoeStang (middle of the thread http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35826).. he had Adam tune+ and his engine blew. Went back to stock and did the key cycle 100x and they still caught the tune, had to pay for his repairs out of pocket.

Now whether or not it was tune related or a factory defect, you will possibly never know and they will ALWAYS blame the tune. If you're gonna tune, go with the reputable tuners. However, if shit happens, be prepared to foot the bill.

But saying a "Pro Tuned car" will never blow an engine is ridiculous. It may not be tune related so makes no sense to say that. Torrie's Unleash tune so far, isn't the most potent but I haven't seen one blew up with his tune yet.

Google Focus ST engine blown, there's a 105+ page thread on this subject. About 15 Focus ST had the Unleash Tune and it blew, no warranty.

Tune at your own risk, all I'm saying. I too, once had an EB so don't ask me how I know the risk involved sadly.

 

[Chargersfan81]

Depends on weather you go with the V6 or V8 Camaro. I'd agree the V8 Camaro outclasses the V8 mustang as they come from the factory. But the story is opposite when you compare the mid tier:

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...st-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Remember the Mustang EB is also running with a deficient IC, it can't make its rated HP after just 2 gears due to heat soak.

I think Ford's Coyote V8 is a bit outdated already. It had the highest power per liter when it arrived in 2011, but I don't think the power output has changed much since 2011. GM as been busy refining the LT1. I'm surprised Ford doesn't come put with a 5.4 or 5.8 version of the Coyote to replace the 5.0 as the base V8.

Remember also the Camaro V6 isn't going to get much faster without going to Froced Induction which is going to cost you a very sizeable chunk of cash. The EB stang can almost match the V8 Camaro on the 1/4 mile for about $2k worth of mods! That's impressive performance per dollar. If you throw enough money at it, you can make a Pinto run a 10 second 1/4 mile...but it comes down to how much the average person has / is willing to spend. Also the Mustang EB gets far better gas mileage than the Camaro V6 does as well.

If you want the best stock V8, buy GM. If you want the best stock mid tier, buy the Ford. If you want to mod the V8, buy whatever you like because at that point it doesn't matter (there are 5.0 TT kits running 10.2 quarter miles). Or if you want you could buy a true track car like the GT350.

Here's an example where the tables turn again with the Mustang beating the Camaro (Z28 vs GT350) for $10,000 less!: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...amaro-z28-vs-2016-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang/

So I don't think it's really fair to say the Camaro is a faster car than the Mustang. It depends on what tier and price category. They seem to trade blows and are fairly close. Also if you had a directly equal price, the extra cash on the Mustang in the cases where it is the looser would turn it into a winner.

Case in point, for $4500 price difference (Mustang is the cheaper one) you could make up for the deficiencies to match the Camaro via mods: http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...ro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-comparison-test

If we really wanted to see which car was the best, we would have to have two at price points within 1k of each other, but that usually isn't the case as there's usually a big gap between the two on each of the tiers. I don't think you can truly say one is a better car than the other because if that were the case it would always better the other in each tier.

Good write up and looked at it from both sides. A lot of testing has the Camaro V6 running mid 13's.. While the EB runs low 14's.. They're about the same weight and I'm baffled why the EB, with 310 HP/ 320 Torque run low 14's??!!!

My G35 coupe weighed as much as the EB with 280 HP and ran low 14's.. The EB did feel a lot faster than most since it's very torqey. Now I'm just talking stock here, no mods.

The V6 Camaro with 335 HP and ONLY 280 lb torque should be equal as the EB in performance numbers. I wished they had the EB with Focus RS numbers running the 1/4 in the mid 13's. Then again, ya'll modders will still mod the hell out of it lol

 

[PRG3k]

Sometimes its axiomatic in that those with a big share of the market (tune-wise) will hear their names mentioned more often with everything and that goes for blown motors as well. A lot of customers out there, a lot of different engines.

When it comes to looking for reasons to deny warranty work, dealerships are like water. They will always find the path of least resistance. If you blow a motor with a tuned ECU, would you (as a typical crooked, lazy dealership) need anything else to point to? A good quality tune revised to perfection by a guy with experience is probably the LAST thing to cause a car to blow up and the FIRST thing a dealership will finger as the problem. Its ironic, but that's the way it is.

I don't think Ford played anyone. Have you looked at the prices of the Camaro line up for what you get? That's a straight up carnival game. As far as sales go, there aren't as many suckers around as GM originally thought. Things like the V6 and 2.0T Camaro (to a lesser extent) are truly the milktoast purchases.

 

[TheLion]

Sometimes its axiomatic in that those with a big share of the market (tune-wise) will hear their names mentioned more often with everything and that goes for blown motors as well. A lot of customers out there, a lot of different engines.

When it comes to looking for reasons to deny warranty work, dealerships are like water. They will always find the path of least resistance. If you blow a motor with a tuned ECU, would you (as a typical crooked, lazy dealership) need anything else to point to? A good quality tune revised to perfection by a guy with experience is probably the LAST thing to cause a car to blow up and the FIRST thing a dealership will finger as the problem. Its ironic, but that's the way it is.

I don't think Ford played anyone. Have you looked at the prices of the Camaro line up for what you get? That's a straight up carnival game. As far as sales go, there aren't as many suckers around as GM originally thought. Things like the V6 and 2.0T Camaro (to a lesser extent) are truly the milktoast purchases.

The last part is kind of my point. Price plays a very significant role in any product. As an Industrial Electrical Engineer, I design automated safety systems for the Gas and Oil industry as well as Industrial PC's (think rugged touch screen PCs in super heavy duty cast frames that are waterproof and gorilla proof). Yet even in that industry price matters, can we offer a better product at the same price point, or if we can't can we offer our product cheaper while still being reasonably good quality.

The Camaro V6, is overpriced for what you get. You're not going to be able to squeeze much more performance out of it, while the EB stang on the other hand, for under $2k actually does run with the V8's. Now as I said before, the situation with the V8's is reversed, the Camaro is the better car stock, but it's also more expensive so again, the real question would be, can the difference give you back the performance difference in the V8's? I see super charger kits for about 5~6k, so if that's the price difference then the mustang agian is the better bargain dollar per dollar. A super charged 5.0 will destroy a NA 6.2 LT1. If the price difference can't make up for it in mods then the Camaro remains the better car at that price tier.

AND, the majority of buyers don't care if the Camaro is 0.2 seconds faster on the 1/4 mile. The best times I've seen on stock tires for the Camaro from any of the magazines was 13.7. The best time I've seen for the mustang EB on stock tires was 13.9. Yes, if you put drag tires on both car run mid 13's, Bama ran 13.6 with a mustang EB automatic bone stock (then ran again after their tune and hit 12.9). So the only metric in which the Camaro V6 is a better car is if your not going to mod it and you want the bragging rights of being 0.2 seconds faster...if your buying the car just for fun, sales numbers say the Mustang is the better looking and more fun to drive car. Also if your buying to mod it, the mustang EB is the better car. I think it's more of a paper win for the GM product and sales do matter, Ford is making much more money off of the mustang than the Camaro, even if the Camaro is faster in some instances and tiers. Same can be said for the WRX, which runs a 13.7 on stock tires (due to the awd), it's a competitor to the Camaro and Mustang in terms of speed, handling and price.

 

[Chargersfan81]

A lil bit of magazine numbers for reference since they use pro drivers to test and I have never driven a V6 Camaro

Jalopnik got the V6 at 13.7
http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-is-stupid-quick-does-0-to-1730503112

Hot Rod got the V6 at 13.7
http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured...erformance-numbers-and-curb-weights-are-here/

Motor Trend got the V6 at 13.8
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-rs-v-6-first-test-review/

So the mid 13's by GM is somewhat of a hero run. I totally agree with you guys and that's why sales are PLUMMETING! GM is loading the V6/2.0T over 35k on the lots. From a performance perspective, the V6/2.3EB is cheaper and pretty much just as fast.

The mid range torque of the EB is very usable vs having to rev high to feel power of the V6.. so they're pretty comparable and the EB might even feel faster since torque comes on quicker.

The V8's are a dif story since SS is def. a low 12 sec car while the 5.0 a high 12 sec car. But it's 4k more.. Def. worth it if you want a fast car from factory and don't plan on modding.. If you don't care about a warranty.. a base GT is the best bang for your buck. PERIOD!

Mustang V6/EB > Camaro V6/2.0T

 

[TheLion]

A lil bit of magazine numbers for reference since they use pro drivers to test and I have never driven a V6 Camaro

Jalopnik got the V6 at 13.7
http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-is-stupid-quick-does-0-to-1730503112

Hot Rod got the V6 at 13.7
http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured...erformance-numbers-and-curb-weights-are-here/

Motor Trend got the V6 at 13.8
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-rs-v-6-first-test-review/

So the mid 13's by GM is somewhat of a hero run. I totally agree with you guys and that's why sales are PLUMMETING! GM is loading the V6/2.0T over 35k on the lots. From a performance perspective, the V6/2.3EB is cheaper and pretty much just as fast.

The mid range torque of the EB is very usable vs having to rev high to feel power of the V6.. so they're pretty comparable and the EB might even feel faster since torque comes on quicker.

The V8's are a dif story since SS is def. a low 12 sec car while the 5.0 a high 12 sec car. But it's 4k more.. Def. worth it if you want a fast car from factory and don't plan on modding.. If you don't care about a warranty.. a base GT is the best bang for your buck. PERIOD!

Mustang V6/EB > Camaro V6/2.0T

Right on the numbers, that's what I was saying the Camaro runs mid 13's stock where the EB run high 13's stock (13.8~13.9). However the EB will run 13.6 stock (Bama ran a 13.6 on a bone stock EB except it had drag tires). I'm wondering if the Camaro V6 would gain anything from drag tires or not.

[ame]

13.8 for a stock EB 6MT PP (black one on the left). Honestly I'd say they are pretty darn equal stock as long as the ambient temps aren't high enough to really crap out the IC in the EB. Interestingly enough the manual was actually quicker in that drag, Bama ran an Auto when they did 13.6. Then they tuned it and ran 12.9 lol.

I will probably avoid tuning unless it's Ford tune. I already have a new 3rd gen Levels IC on order. I will do the down pipe next and then lastly the Ford Racing Tune. While the Ford racing tune may not be as aggressive, they cannot blame a failure on the tune. It does reduce the warranty to 36k instead of 60k miles, however given that mine only has 1,700 miles on it I'll stick with the Ford tune at least until the car is paid off so if something does go I can replace the entire engine (about 5K by time you consider installation).

 

[Chargersfan81]

Right on the numbers, that's what I was saying the Camaro runs mid 13's stock where the EB run high 13's stock (13.8~13.9). However the EB will run 13.6 stock (Bama ran a 13.6 on a bone stock EB except it had drag tires). I'm wondering if the Camaro V6 would gain anything from drag tires or not.



13.8 for a stock EB 6MT PP (black one on the left). Honestly I'd say they are pretty darn equal stock as long as the ambient temps aren't high enough to really crap out the IC in the EB. Interestingly enough the manual was actually quicker in that drag, Bama ran an Auto when they did 13.6. Then they tuned it and ran 12.9 lol.

I will probably avoid tuning unless it's Ford tune. I already have a new 3rd gen Levels IC on order. I will do the down pipe next and then lastly the Ford Racing Tune. While the Ford racing tune may not be as aggressive, they cannot blame a failure on the tune. It does reduce the warranty to 36k instead of 60k miles, however given that mine only has 1,700 miles on it I'll stick with the Ford tune at least until the car is paid off so if something does go I can replace the entire engine (about 5K by time you consider installation).

13.8 is a VERY impressive run for the EB and which it should be. You sir is a very smart man and I wish I didn't do an aftermarket tune when I owned an EB but can't change back time and you can only learn from it.

The Ford tune, when/if it comes out will be plentiful for the car IMO. The added torque will kick in hard and it will be a very fun car boasting the looks as well!

I seen a lot of vids, known some folks and for the EB to crack 12's, GT territory.. you better be a hella driver with a pretty agressive tune + intercooler. DA plays a very important roll as well.

The Camaro V6 just loses to the EB/V6 Mustang since you're not getting that much more performance but you are paying a premium! Such a wash! The SS I respect and is a beast but the mid/base tier loses to Fords mid/base tier.

Careful with the downpipe though, I hear a lot of users experiencing smoke, back pressure damaging their turbo.. In any case, just take it off before heading to the dealer. My service manager told me off the records, if you're gonna mod.. make sure it's UNTRACEABLE which means you can put it back to stock. Which means pretty much everything except for a Tune

 

[TheLion]

13.8 is a VERY impressive run for the EB and which it should be. You sir is a very smart man and I wish I didn't do an aftermarket tune when I owned an EB but can't change back time and you can only learn from it.

The Ford tune, when/if it comes out will be plentiful for the car IMO. The added torque will kick in hard and it will be a very fun car boasting the looks as well!

I seen a lot of vids, known some folks and for the EB to crack 12's, GT territory.. you better be a hella driver with a pretty agressive tune + intercooler. DA plays a very important roll as well.

The Camaro V6 just loses to the EB/V6 Mustang since you're not getting that much more performance but you are paying a premium! Such a wash! The SS I respect and is a beast but the mid/base tier loses to Fords mid/base tier.

Careful with the downpipe though, I hear a lot of users experiencing smoke, back pressure damaging their turbo.. In any case, just take it off before heading to the dealer. My service manager told me off the records, if you're gonna mod.. make sure it's UNTRACEABLE which means you can put it back to stock. Which means pretty much everything except for a Tune

I'll keep that in mind about the down pipe. Going through the "detuning" account I mentioned earlier, the down pipe was actually tuned for the smaller turbo to prevent it from spooling up too fast, so I'm thinking just the Ford Tune and the Levels IC (on order) and the UPR catch can should be enough to really wake the car up without having any significant risk of reliability issues given it's a daily driver (I keep most of my cars for 175~225k miles).

Even without a tune, I would highly recommend a good IC and a Catch Can. Even if you didn't care about the performance benefits of a properly sized IC, it goes a long way in increasing the reliability of the stock car. Cooler air = more advanced timing = happy engine and more margin of safety. Can't get around that fact.

Also you can swap the stock IC back if there ever was a significant issue requiring warranty repair even if the car has to be towed to the dealer ;-). I've seen some impressive results with tunes, but the stock IC really is a major issue for making consistent and safe power. There was one case where some one on this forum dynoed their stang stock then after just an IC swap (no there changes). On the low and mid end it was a wash, in some cases they lost maybe 7~12 hp. On the higher end they picked up 48hp and 40 ft-lbs of torque! Basically a good IC flattened out the torque and power curve, making more useful. Also the power remained constant pull after pull unlike the factory IC which degrades pull after pull. This also explains why the loves colder climates so much, because it helps mask the deficiency. Sorry for the IC rant, but I thought it very relevant to share as I'm trying to spread the word. It's a night and day difference from everyone I've spoken with, again with no other mods. Add a tune and it's like a completely different car.

 

[TheLion]

Just an FYI all, I did a bit of digging on the burning oil issue. What I found is that the issue is causes by the crank case pressure and the PCV valve system being inadequate to relieve the pressure. This stresses the turbo bearing seals and forces oil through the turbo bearing (Mazda speed 3's had this issue as well).

There were several short term fixes, higher idle (lower the pressure), PCV valve delete (remove the PCV valve and use a dual valve oil separator in its place), using catted down pipes (which many of us have to do anyway), but this mostly masked the issue and not actually resolved it. In fact it would seem almost all mustang EB's with the original oil separator design experienced this issue, but to varying degrees and the cat would essentially mask the problem by burning up the oil. However excessive amounts of leakage would present through odor and through significant carbon buildup on the tail pipes and rear body panel.

Finally Ford resolved the issue and designed a high flow oil separator. There's a TSB on how to tell weather you have the original oil separator or the newer high flow unit which can be found here: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18671&page=53

This would be a voluntary recall issue. If your not having the issue or don't notice it then they aren't going to go through any trouble to tell you. If you do know about it, you can bring it in for warranty replacement with the high flow unit.

 

[Jdenkevitz]

Depends on weather you go with the V6 or V8 Camaro. I'd agree the V8 Camaro outclasses the V8 mustang as they come from the factory. But the story is opposite when you compare the mid tier:

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...st-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Remember the Mustang EB is also running with a deficient IC, it can't make its rated HP after just 2 gears due to heat soak.

I think Ford's Coyote V8 is a bit outdated already. It had the highest power per liter when it arrived in 2011, but I don't think the power output has changed much since 2011. GM as been busy refining the LT1. I'm surprised Ford doesn't come put with a 5.4 or 5.8 version of the Coyote to replace the 5.0 as the base V8.

Remember also the Camaro V6 isn't going to get much faster without going to Froced Induction which is going to cost you a very sizeable chunk of cash. The EB stang can almost match the V8 Camaro on the 1/4 mile for about $2k worth of mods! That's impressive performance per dollar. If you throw enough money at it, you can make a Pinto run a 10 second 1/4 mile...but it comes down to how much the average person has / is willing to spend. Also the Mustang EB gets far better gas mileage than the Camaro V6 does as well.

If you want the best stock V8, buy GM. If you want the best stock mid tier, buy the Ford. If you want to mod the V8, buy whatever you like because at that point it doesn't matter (there are 5.0 TT kits running 10.2 quarter miles). Or if you want you could buy a true track car like the GT350.

Here's an example where the tables turn again with the Mustang beating the Camaro (Z28 vs GT350) for $10,000 less!: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...amaro-z28-vs-2016-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang/

So I don't think it's really fair to say the Camaro is a faster car than the Mustang. It depends on what tier and price category. They seem to trade blows and are fairly close. Also if you had a directly equal price, the extra cash on the Mustang in the cases where it is the looser would turn it into a winner.

Case in point, for $4500 price difference (Mustang is the cheaper one) you could make up for the deficiencies to match the Camaro via mods: http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...ro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-comparison-test

If we really wanted to see which car was the best, we would have to have two at price points within 1k of each other, but that usually isn't the case as there's usually a big gap between the two on each of the tiers. I don't think you can truly say one is a better car than the other because if that were the case it would always better the other in each tier.

I drove the v6 Camaro before getting an EB. It handles better than the EB. in terms of power, its a wash between the two with the Camaro having a slight edge. The Camaro is a better car (except for looks), but....

The aspect I think folks are missing is cost.
Ford made it a high priority on all variations of the sixth gen to keep costs extremely low. The EB is a great value. Could it be improved with minimal cost? Absolutely. A better stock IC would make a huge difference, but remember 95% of the people buying the EB probably don't even know what an intercooler is. The EB is for people who want the looks of a Mustang, with a sporty feel, and great gas mileage (or for someone looking for a cheap mod platform). Remember, that's the entire heritage of the car. Cheap, sporty, great looking.

For every small upgrade in parts, they have meetings to debate the merits or lack thereof on total production costs, performance, and sales. Personally I think they should drop the v6 and 2.3L, and offer a 2.7L EB, a 3.5L TT EB, and a 5.2L DI v8. This would raise the costs across the board however, and probably increase the cost of the car by 3-4k.

Just look at what GM is experiencing with the Camaro now. They didn't cut corners, and have a better handling car as a result, but they are more expensive, and their sales are half of the Mustang.

 

[TheLion]

I drove the v6 Camaro before getting an EB. It handles better than the EB. in terms of power, its a wash between the two with the Camaro having a slight edge. The Camaro is a better car (except for looks), but....

The aspect I think folks are missing is cost.
Ford made it a high priority on all variations of the sixth gen to keep costs extremely low. The EB is a great value. Could it be improved with minimal cost? Absolutely. A better stock IC would make a huge difference, but remember 95% of the people buying the EB probably don't even know what an intercooler is. The EB is for people who want the looks of a Mustang, with a sporty feel, and great gas mileage (or for someone looking for a cheap mod platform). Remember, that's the entire heritage of the car. Cheap, sporty, great looking.

For every small upgrade in parts, they have meetings to debate the merits or lack thereof on total production costs, performance, and sales. Personally I think they should drop the v6 and 2.3L, and offer a 2.7L EB, a 3.5L TT EB, and a 5.2L DI v8. This would raise the costs across the board however, and probably increase the cost of the car by 3-4k.

Just look at what GM is experiencing with the Camaro now. They didn't cut corners, and have a better handling car as a result, but they are more expensive, and their sales are half of the Mustang.

That's kinda the point I've been trying to get at. Cost vs. performance. They are essentially dead even. The camaro outclasses the mustang, but not by a signfiicant amount. However it costs significantly more. For the several thousand you save going EB, you will get an equivalent or better handling car that is MUCH faster. In it's stock form it's competitive, but a little behind (on handling, not so much on power, we'ere talking .1~.2 seconds here which is small, if it was .7 seconds like the Camaro V8 vs Mustang V8 I'd say it's a clear win). A tune alone puts the EB squarely in V8 territory. It's a cheap modding platform as you said. For those that don't want to mod or care about absolute performance, it also meets those requirements and the sales prove it.

I bought the car knowing the Camaro V6 had a slight edge in performance, but I also knew it had a bloated price and there was far less potential to be gained without throwing very significant cash at it, which I didn't want to do. Remember also the Camaro V6 also has poor gas mileage COMPARED to the mustang EB, which matters for anyone who drives their car daily, which I also do. The gas mileage combined with the performance, looks and mod potential made the Mustang EB a clear choice for me (although the WRX was a strong second choice as it's also a twin scroll turbo platform with near identical performance - the looks).

 

[Chargersfan81]

That's kinda the point I've been trying to get at. Cost vs. performance. They are essentially dead even. The camaro outclasses the mustang, but not by a signfiicant amount. However it costs significantly more. For the several thousand you save going EB, you will get an equivalent or better handling car that is MUCH faster. In it's stock form it's competitive, but a little behind (on handling, not so much on power, we'ere talking .1~.2 seconds here which is small, if it was .7 seconds like the Camaro V8 vs Mustang V8 I'd say it's a clear win). A tune alone puts the EB squarely in V8 territory. It's a cheap modding platform as you said. For those that don't want to mod or care about absolute performance, it also meets those requirements and the sales prove it.

I bought the car knowing the Camaro V6 had a slight edge in performance, but I also knew it had a bloated price and there was far less potential to be gained without throwing very significant cash at it, which I didn't want to do. Remember also the Camaro V6 also has poor gas mileage COMPARED to the mustang EB, which matters for anyone who drives their car daily, which I also do. The gas mileage combined with the performance, looks and mod potential made the Mustang EB a clear choice for me (although the WRX was a strong second choice as it's also a twin scroll turbo platform with near identical performance - the looks).

I agree! The .1 to .2 differences in the V6 Camaro and the EB just doesn't make that much more of a difference. When I had my EB with premium gas, over 3.5k the torque kicks in and it will feel fast. I'm sure you won't feel the power of the V6 Camaro unless you're pushing it close to redline. So technically, the EB feels faster than the Camaro and if the Camaro edges it out with a full on race, it won't be by that much.

Pretty much a drivers race with the EB feeling more peppier with earlier torque. So with performance, price factored in,.. the EB wins out vs the Camaro V6/2.0.

The V8 Camaro I actually drove and that LT1 has massive torque pulling to redline. I raced my co-workers M6 Camaro with my auto GT.. Not going to get into it but let's just say I took a total beating, with both cars being stock :(. 2015 Camaro SS however felt sluggish to my GT and I would give the edge to my GT with equal drivers.

So yes, the Mid-Tier cars GM loses out but the V8's is another story. Of course, this is comparing stock for stock.

The price increase is ONLY really justifiable for the V8's. The V6, yes it got lighter with a few more ponies but the extra cost don't really justify it IMO.

Ford > GM

 

[TheLion]

That's another intersting point. The V8 Camaro only wins if it's a 2016. Prior years were quite a different story as you mentioned. 2015 GT > 2015 Camaro, but this year it flipped as GM updated their design quite a bit while Ford didn't change anything notable.

 

[Glenn G]

That's another intersting point. The V8 Camaro only wins if it's a 2016. Prior years were quite a different story as you mentioned. 2015 GT > 2015 Camaro, but this year it flipped as GM updated their design quite a bit while Ford didn't change anything notable.

2015 was the generation change for the mustang, 2016 for the Camaro, Ford didn't really see the need to do any changes as it's killing the pony car market at the moment, Powertrain updates will come around 2018 I believe Ford announced the 7th gen for 2020.

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