Why doesn't Ford just produce more GT350's? - Some light reading for the Newbs

[Derk]

What's listed above are true limited edition vehicles. In those cases, Ford elected to built small numbers, both for the sake of maintaining exclusivity and because they perceived fairly limited demand. But these are the top-most halo cars. OTOH, the Bullitt(s), Mach1, "mainstream' SVT cars, Boss 302 are more properly Special Edition cars.

Note that's Special and not Limited. Yes, the volumes are low, but not constrained for the sake of being exclusive. Rather, the market size at the price point drove the projected volume. And that's subject to market fluctuation or changes in (perception of) demand. The standard GT350 falls into this category, whereas the R could be arguably in the former.

I would agree with that, so are we arguing about all GT350's or just R's?! I haven't been keeping up very well. lol

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[EXP Jawa]

GT500 or Ford GT? Because you're saying one and referencing the other, all while talking about how others are uninformed. The GT was always meant to a limited volume car. But, again, they take stab at projecting what the demand at a price point will be and work to that. They're not always right (so they were off by 20%), that's why marketing and forecasting the future is a black art. I think that using that to argue is silly, but at this point its tough to tell what you actually are arguing - it almost seems you're being contrary for the sake of being so...
[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]kQFKtI6gn9Y[/MEDIA]"]I'd like to have an argument please[/ame]

Look, it really is pretty simple - they project demand and tool up accordingly. If they miss the mark and need more, they try to go back to the supplier base and ask about increasing volumes. Or, if they aimed to high, they saturate the market and have to sit on cars. The goal is to do neither, and build the right number for the demand. But it isn't as easy as some seem to think. It's only occasionally that they short-build to make it rare, but even then sometimes they miss the mark...

 

[fordpod]

Ford GT, corrected it. didn't proof read that one. Sorry.

Pointing out how consumption determines production. Initial build target was 4500, sales languished and only 4038 were actually built. Just another example of how the adjustments are in both directions and determined by consumption.

Kinda sounds like most of us are now on the same page. All good.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Fordpod.... It looks like the number they hover around is literally the .001% of the population you threw out there. Possibly based on the actual math in previous runs of both limited and specialty vehicles.

This seems to be the average ballpark the first year run. Then things adjust from there.

Still I don't feel these GT350's even the "R" experiencing the same value as the Ford GT's have experienced.

1. Those Ford GT's were limited and priced at a level where it was a purchase of affluence.
2. These GT350's are priced to the levels of Middle to upper middle class.
3. Even the Laguna Seca was to the Boss 302 as the "R" is to the GT350 and they haven't experienced an increase in value either. More like a break even.

Perhaps in a few decades when some of these cars drop off the planet due to crashes that total them or Theft that parts them out or other acts of god that destroy them....if there are only a few prime examples left you might see some value there.

Purely subjective no doubt.

I just did a lookup on CARZEN for New and used 2011 and 2014 Mustangs and the hit came back with over a dozen Boss 302's selling on dealer lots going between low 40k to high 40k within a 150 mile radius from where I live. Two marked as brand spanking new. So that would backup claims that even those 2 still new cars were stuck on lots and not selling. The used ones would be a testament to how the owner sees better value in something else and have traded the car in. Likely as a deposit on a GT350??? Who knows.

Then there's the GT500's...plenty of those too.. 2013/14's well over 65k. Still sitting on lots selling as new and the older Gt500's 2007 to 2012.... Used....for high 30k to 50k. Which leads me to believe they were not so collectible as those owners may have thought.

If you also consider that these former owners were likely offered far less than the Blue Book on a trade in.... and the selling prices are on par or less than the original MSRP when new. They may have retained Market value, but at a loss to the original buyer.

This should be the same template for the GT350's.


Unless you sell privately you may not even break even.

 

[w3rkn]

Guys who point to the FordGT and scream about how "limited" the production was actually make the opposite point and are simply to uninformed and ignorant to know it.

Ford GT production was to be a total of 4500 units. Only 4038 were built due to sluggish sales. Production is "limited" by CONSUMPTION! What is so blasted difficult about that one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

Conversely, the 2007 GT500 had a huge pool of capable buyers giving Ford the incentive and logical reason to build 11,000 of them, 6,000 units above their initial "limited production" number of 5,000.

This is really simple stuff guys.

I, myself am going to have to wait until 2017/18 MY to get into a GT350. Why cry about it... those have more money than me, can out buy me, period. That is life. (George Bush signed one, Jay Leno is buying one and you want to be in the same crowd. How does it feel to want?)



Coincidentally, the Ford GT500 didn't have anything that limited its production. It was simply a "limited car". Slapping more super chargers on, was easy, because there were plenty of them, to slap on.

Subsequently, you do not slap on .2 liters to a 5.0, to make a 5.2 liter FPC engine. The process of building them is entirely different. It is a rare engine, with a patented process. You just have to accept that.

Obviously, as that build process matures, they will make it more streamlines and be able to make more per year... like anything in industry.



You are hung up on dealer ADM. Because too many people want this car. Join the F'n crowd dude...

 

[EXP Jawa]

Well, the process is circular, a sort of feedback loop. Douglas Adams said it best:

Trying to predict the future is a mug's game. But it is a game that lifeforms everywhere learn to play, because the future is always changing and we're going to have to live there, probably as soon as next week...

Sometimes the volume forecasts are accurate. Sometimes, like for Raptor, they're wildly off in a good way (for the manufacturer), and they're struggling to keep up. That's actually a good problem to have in manufacturing. And sometimes they're overly optimistic, like with the GT. It happens. I don't think anyone has implied otherwise.

If Ford finds themselves in the favorable situation of having much higher demand for the GT350 than they're projecting, then they'll be back to us to try to sort out how practical it is to meet that demand. But just be clear, there's a whole lot more to the building more GT350s than magicking up additional engines.

 

[cjgt350]

Why don't you do 20 minutes of research via Google and you will understand what happens with this stuff. It is abundantly clear that you are willing to pay a premium to get what you want when you want it. That is fine and your business. Please do not attack me or anyone else here for understanding how these scenarios always unfold. I will not pay an ADM and likely not even sticker at some point in the future as I have way more toys than I need and can wait on this one. There are many of us who will ultimately purchase a GT350 for significantly less than you will. This fact obviously causes you the need to promote an agenda where everyone else pays as you do. Get over it.

There you go again making stuff up. I am not promoting an agenda as you call it or ADM for that matter. I will state again therefore hopefully you will comprehend this time.

For the 2016MY most of us have to pay ADM to get a GT350. That is a personal choice but a scenario that is being driven by market demand and the fact that dealers cannot obtain more allocations for the MY2016. Simple supply vs demand.

That said YES some will be persistent and resourceful obtaining one as MSRP doubtful they will be below however. I suppose if your lucky or patient enough then maybe you will as well. Chances are that may have to wait until the MY 2017. Will they produce the GT350 beyond the MY 2017?...who knows.

Again it all boils down to an informed personal choice. Some of being informed is looking to the past of what Ford has done with SE Mustangs. However, while some current events seem to be in line with the past there are clearly some variables that are not. One example being a far more broad market demand than any other SE Mustang of prior.

You want to be stuck on the past guiding you on your decision of the present then that is your choice. While I and others are trying to present all the relevant information of the present while being respective of the past. Now where I take issue is you coming in here mightier then thou spouting rhetoric, insults, innuendo, etc that causes needless posts to refute your BS. Worse is the readers who may believe more than half of what you post. Note: I have given some credit because you have not been 100% wrong.

 

[Blk2015GT]

I, myself am going to have to wait until 2017/18 MY to get into a GT350. Why cry about it... those have more money than me, can out buy me, period. That is life. (George Bush signed one, Jay Leno is buying one and you want to be in the same crowd. How does it feel to want?)



Coincidentally, the Ford GT500 didn't have anything that limited its production. It was simply a "limited car". Slapping more super chargers on, was easy, because there were plenty of them, to slap on.

Subsequently, you do not slap on .2 liters to a 5.0, to make a 5.2 liter FPC engine. The process of building them is entirely different. It is a rare engine, with a patented process. You just have to accept that.

Obviously, as that build process matures, they will make it more streamlines and be able to make more per year... like anything in industry.



You are hung up on dealer ADM. Because too many people want this car. Join the F'n crowd dude...

Should be end of topic there.

 

[vdavie]

wow! 14 pages of this and counting............


Vince

 

[EXP Jawa]

wow! 14 pages of this and counting............


Vince

Are we having fun yet? :lol:

 

[ohtobbad]

Just get my car here and I won't care what anyone writes
even less the crazy ass one's beating dead horses LOL

 

[fordpod]

There you go again making stuff up. I am not promoting an agenda as you call it or ADM for that matter. I will state again therefore hopefully you will comprehend this time.

For the 2016MY most of us have to pay ADM to get a GT350. That is a personal choice but a scenario that is being driven by market demand and the fact that dealers cannot obtain more allocations for the MY2016. Simple supply vs demand.

That said YES some will be persistent and resourceful obtaining one as MSRP doubtful they will be below however. I suppose if your lucky or patient enough then maybe you will as well. Chances are that may have to wait until the MY 2017. Will they produce the GT350 beyond the MY 2017?...who knows.

Again it all boils down to an informed personal choice. Some of being informed is looking to the past of what Ford has done with SE Mustangs. However, while some current events seem to be in line with the past there are clearly some variables that are not. One example being a far more broad market demand than any other SE Mustang of prior.

You want to be stuck on the past guiding you on your decision of the present then that is your choice. While I and others are trying to present all the relevant information of the present while being respective of the past. Now where I take issue is you coming in here mightier then thou spouting rhetoric, insults, innuendo, etc that causes needless posts to refute your BS. Worse is the readers who may believe more than half of what you post. Note: I have given some credit because you have not been 100% wrong.

Dude, you just don't get it and you obviously never will.

Pay your ADM, get your car long before I do and you won Man. Feel better now?

 

[fordpod]

Fordpod.... It looks like the number they hover around is literally the .001% of the population you threw out there. Possibly based on the actual math in previous runs of both limited and specialty vehicles.

This seems to be the average ballpark the first year run. Then things adjust from there.

Still I don't feel these GT350's even the "R" experiencing the same value as the Ford GT's have experienced.

1. Those Ford GT's were limited and priced at a level where it was a purchase of affluence.
2. These GT350's are priced to the levels of Middle to upper middle class.
3. Even the Laguna Seca was to the Boss 302 as the "R" is to the GT350 and they haven't experienced an increase in value either. More like a break even.

Perhaps in a few decades when some of these cars drop off the planet due to crashes that total them or Theft that parts them out or other acts of god that destroy them....if there are only a few prime examples left you might see some value there.

Purely subjective no doubt.

I just did a lookup on CARZEN for New and used 2011 and 2014 Mustangs and the hit came back with over a dozen Boss 302's selling on dealer lots going between low 40k to high 40k within a 150 mile radius from where I live. Two marked as brand spanking new. So that would backup claims that even those 2 still new cars were stuck on lots and not selling. The used ones would be a testament to how the owner sees better value in something else and have traded the car in. Likely as a deposit on a GT350??? Who knows.

Then there's the GT500's...plenty of those too.. 2013/14's well over 65k. Still sitting on lots selling as new and the older Gt500's 2007 to 2012.... Used....for high 30k to 50k. Which leads me to believe they were not so collectible as those owners may have thought.

If you also consider that these former owners were likely offered far less than the Blue Book on a trade in.... and the selling prices are on par or less than the original MSRP when new. They may have retained Market value, but at a loss to the original buyer.

This should be the same template for the GT350's.


Unless you sell privately you may not even break even.

Found the same in my search. Brandy new GT500s and Boss 302s in stock still looking for a home. Interesting to watch this "limited production" at work. I'm sure the ADM drumbeaters here could come up with a semantic dance to explain that away.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Come on we can do it...14 more pages...YEA!!

 

[bpracer]

Come on we can do it...14 more pages...YEA!!

AA -> ADM Anonymous


[me] "Hi, my name in Mark, and I paid ADM."

[chorus] "Hi Mark!"

[me] "I just wanted my car a year earlier"

[chorus] "OOoooohhhh!"

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