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Premium vs Regular gas for track day

agmattocks

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Premium all the time and add fuel additive for track days. Safety is the key.
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Michael_vroomvroom

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Also note that from what I've read here, it takes a rather long time, more than one full fuel tank, for the system to adjust to take full advantage of the higher octane fuel. So just putting in premium fuel on your way to track will not do it, if you've up until then been running lower octane fuel. At least according to what I read here some years ago.
 

xcm77

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All I know is that I ran regular (98RON/93 octane) on Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium and after 2x 30 minutes stints, the engine light came on 🤦‍♂️Mind you the car was bought new and only had 50k km on the clock. Trouble is, the premium gas (103RON/98 octane) was €3/liter (and I'm not even sure the engine can take that without a tune). Moral of the story is, get the best ROI premium you can afford.
 

bnightstar

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All I know is that I ran regular (98RON/93 octane) on Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium and after 2x 30 minutes stints, the engine light came on 🤦‍♂️Mind you the car was bought new and only had 50k km on the clock. Trouble is, the premium gas (103RON/98 octane) was €3/liter (and I'm not even sure the engine can take that without a tune). Moral of the story is, get the best ROI premium you can afford.
It can take that without a tune I run (100 RON) Shell V-Power Racing in my end of the woods which is essentially 98 RON+some additives but is doing it's job never had an engine light come on. Overall no matter how expensive the V-Power Racing it's cheaper than a new engine.
 

tdstuart

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Everyone is right. The car has adaptive knock sensors but the car has to knock to figure out that it needs to pull timing...

Someone who knows more can chime in but I think the ecu does have adaptive octane logic and maybe after knocking a few times it will adjust the base timing. But I could be wrong and it might not change the base tables and just pull timing every time it sees knock.

Either way the ecu isn't perfect. For example I was an idiot and ran a tune that was fuel correcting 60%. The car can do it and it had learned the fuel tables. I was able to do several pulls and nothing bad happened. Then one day I start to do a pull and a few seconds in the car goes lean and #4 piston melts.

Point of the story is that even though my case was extreme and pushing the ecu almost past the limits of its adjustment, the ecu can make mistakes.

The car will knock on regular, there are videos showing the stock ford tune will see knock and pull timing on regular gas.

Im sure if you look at the ford owners manual for the boss302 it will say something about running premium during hard driving. The car was track focused on Ford put in the owners manual some extra info for people running the car hard. They also recommend 5w-50 oil.

At minimum you should fill up with premium before running on track. I don't think the cost difference between regular and premium is worth the hp loss and potential damage of the engine due to knock.
 

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tdstuart

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All I know is that I ran regular (98RON/93 octane) on Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium and after 2x 30 minutes stints, the engine light came on 🤦‍♂️Mind you the car was bought new and only had 50k km on the clock. Trouble is, the premium gas (103RON/98 octane) was €3/liter (and I'm not even sure the engine can take that without a tune). Moral of the story is, get the best ROI premium you can afford.
Car can take higher octane gas if the afr is the same. It will just give the car more knock resistance. But you couldn't run E85 for example because the afr is way different. So just check that the afr is the same as normal pump gas and you can run it.
 

nbjeeptj

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I never knew it was a potential issue for the engine always just assumed it was a HP issue as to why people run the higher octane fuel on track. If it has to do with engine temp my car has had excessive mods for engine cooling, since I started pounding on my car hard, so that may be the reason I was able to get away with regular for HPDE type days.
 

GrayMater22

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I never knew it was a potential issue for the engine always just assumed it was a HP issue as to why people run the higher octane fuel on track. If it has to do with engine temp my car has had excessive mods for engine cooling, since I started pounding on my car hard, so that may be the reason I was able to get away with regular for HPDE type days.
Yes, that probably helped but at the end of the day it boils down to afr, if you run a 120mm cai without tuning the car for the correct maf you will run lean and create some serious issues at high rpms. If the car is tuned for a larger maf it is a really good idea to run a higher octane 93+2 or +5, this will help keep the afr stable over 6500+ rpms. I learned this on the drag strip, my cars knock sensors would cut timing on 93 because I am tuned for a 114mm maf which allows much more air in at high rpms while ramming air down the throat of the throttle body at over 90 to 100mph. Once I started adding race fuel the day before I hit the track, this never happened again.
 
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furdfan2018

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OMG anther thread on this?

Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious, these guys.

Wow.
 

ice445

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Also note that from what I've read here, it takes a rather long time, more than one full fuel tank, for the system to adjust to take full advantage of the higher octane fuel. So just putting in premium fuel on your way to track will not do it, if you've up until then been running lower octane fuel. At least according to what I read here some years ago.
There's no octane learning on the coyote, at least not the gen 3. I wish there was to avoid these issues, but Ford didn't think it was necessary I guess. The car can pull up to 10 degrees of timing per event as well as gdi spray, throttle closure and other tricks to stop the knock in it's tracks. But it's better to let it find the soft limit on its own instead of diving headfirst onto it like you usually do with 87.
 

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tosha

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I never knew it was a potential issue for the engine
It means that you likely never owned a wrx/sti/turbo subaru with a boost tune 😆

On a hot day, especially with heat soak, there was no need for knock microphones. Detonation could be heard across the street, followed by an engine rebuild of course.

Coyotes are a lot more stout, partually due to much larger displacement, as well as being naturally aspirated, but testing these limits on track is not a good idea.
 

WildHorse

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It is about risk.
Your 12:1 compression should be self explanatory then.

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Sure, with 93. Around my parts Shell only available with 91. Which is no better/worse than other tier 1 fuels (logged, verified).

I will say that Shell V-power evaporates at a much slower rate as compared to other fuels (yes, I tested it). No idea what that means.
 

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Your 12:1 compression should be self explanatory then.


Sure, with 93. Around my parts Shell only available with 91. Which is no better/worse than other tier 1 fuels (logged, verified).

I will say that Shell V-power evaporates at a much slower rate as compared to other fuels (yes, I tested it). No idea what that means.
Yeah the cheap Shell gas is not good here ether prefer other stations if going bellow the 100 RON of the V-Power but when it comes to performance V-Power every day and 2 times on Saturday ;)
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