Oil Viscosity & Forced Induction

[oesman]

Hey Guys,

I ran the recommended 5w20 (Mobil 1 Extended Performance) for the first 1,500 miles after my procharger install. Ultimately I became pretty concerned about engine life and performance of the oil with the big jump in power output on top of the Houston heat.

I sent off oil samples to two labs to be tested and got results from one lab thus far. The other is probably in my mailbox, but I'm on a short trip out of town. I'll update the post when I get back. The reason I used two labs is to confirm the results, if they're different I'll find a third lab to test my remaining sample.

Date Sampled		10/04/2017
Date Received		10/12/2017
Miles Used		1,500
Miles Engine		5,424
Lube Changed		Yes				
Filter Changed		Yes


Lab Name:		Oil Analyzers Inc.		Blackstone Laboratories


Fuel Dilution		<1% Vol				<0.5% Vol
Soot			<.1% Vol			0.1% Vol
Water			<.1% Vol			0.0% Vol
Glycol			N/A				0.0% Vol
Viscosity 100C		7.8cSt				7.6cSt
Base Number		3.20mg KOH/g			N/A
Oxidation		9abs/cm				N/A
Nitration		9abs/0.1mm			N/A


Iron			16 ppm				19ppm
Chromium		0 ppm				0 ppm
Nickel			0 ppm				0 ppm
Aluminum		4 ppm				6 ppm
Copper			6 ppm				7 ppm
Lead			33 ppm				41 ppm
Tin			0 ppm				0 ppm
Cadmium			0 ppm				N/A
Silver			0 ppm				0 ppm
Vanadium		0 ppm				N/A
Silicon			11 ppm				12 ppm
Sodium			4 ppm				5 ppm
Potassium		7 ppm				4 ppm
Titanium		0 ppm				0 ppm
Molybdenum		78 ppm				88 ppm
Antimony		0 ppm				N/A
Manganese		101 ppm				105 ppm
Lithium			0 ppm				N/A
Boron			71 ppm				80 ppm
Magnesium		728 ppm				865 ppm
Calcium			1077 ppm			1167 ppm
Barium			0 ppm				0 ppm
Phosphorus		724 ppm				799 ppm
Zinc			771 ppm				915 ppm

As you can see after just 1,500 miles the oil is starting to fail. The base number is starting to drop. The viscosity at 100C is at 7.8cSt which also on the low side since it should range 6.9 to 9.3.

The 101 ppm of manganese seems normal due to my use of unleaded race fuel. However the 33 ppm of lead is interesting. For 8qt of oil it means I had 0.25g of lead in the oil. Where did it come from? Bearings? Not a lot of copper in the oil, maybe not. Maybe i had lead in the 55gal drum of fuel from a leaded fuel in it before? Seems like 0.25g is a lot though. Maybe lead solder?

In the mean time I decided to go for Motul 300V Chrono 10w40. Because the car is only for track and fun use it's never going to see cold temperatures. Not even remotely near freezing. The tires won't work at that temp anyway. I will take samples in 500mi intervals from this oil and see how it goes. I may also try the Redline 10w40 depending on what kind of results I see. But that will depend on the results.

Update 10/19/2017: Received my report from second oil lab. It seems to largely match up with the first lab. I also had a conversation with an engine builder who confirmed no lead in factory bearings. Blackstone also confirmed this in their analysis. So chances are (and it's Blackstone's theory) that the fuel probably has lead in it. The first lab also suggested that as a possibility, along with leaded solder since it's a new engine.

The fuel I use from Sunoco, although marketed as unleaded, I suppose could contain TEL anyway. Would sort of explain why this particular fuel works so ridiculously well. It works a lot better than the VP and Gulf unleaded offerings with similar marketed specs. I wonder if the TEL content is just low enough that it's considered unleaded? Going to take some time to research how that works and if there is any standard for classification. Perhaps it's like calories on food items, where if it's below X calories they can just call it zero calorie.

I updated the numbers up top and created a second column for the new lab. I'm told by the staff at blackstone their margin of error is around 3 ppm. Now of course we see some of the results are off by more than 3 ppm. Being that I only have two lab reports, I don't know who's closer to the truth. I'm going to ask the first lab what the margin of error is and maybe take a sample to a third lab. Just to keep in mind, my method was to take the sample mid stream and store one big container. I then shook it up before distributing a sample into each lab's jar. It's not like I took samples at different parts of the stream. I'm trying to be as scientific as possible.

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[Sp33dyGT]

cant wait to see results from other test. good data here! ty for taking the time to share results

 

[RockStang]

Really good info. Thank you for sharing. Most people never bother to research oil and it's a shame. You can find a lot of info online about low viscosity multi-grade oils not sustaining themselves in high horsepower, high RPM applications but yet, people still swear by them because they haven't had a problem yet....until they do.

 

[oesman]

cant wait to see results from other test. good data here! ty for taking the time to share results

No prob, I'll make sure to update and bump when I have other data.

Really good info. Thank you for sharing. Most people never bother to research oil and it's a shame. You can find a lot of info online about low viscosity multi-grade oils not sustaining themselves in high horsepower, high RPM applications but yet, people still swear by them because they haven't had a problem yet....until they do.

Glad it's interesting . I think we're all guilty of being ignorant sometimes, and I certainly was before I started digging into it more. I think lots of people go with manufacturer recommendations and that's it.

However, it stands to reason manufacturer recommendations are for normal driving. That means driving to work and back home. Only occasionally racing the engine, at normal power levels, in non-extreme climates. Since I live in Houston where the climate is extreme and my car is not only being abused, but it's also producing nearly twice the crank hp. The amount of heat being produced is monumental.

How can a factory recommendation ever make sense in this situation? Ford doesn't engineer their cars for the ~1% of owners who will be extremely abusive. This is why I started researching and flushed my oil and had it tested. Also why I'll keep testing the new oils I use and monitoring. These tests are only around $20-30 depending on the lab. Considering the cost of a new engine, it's not exactly crazy money to play with to figure out the perfect lubrication solution for your unique build/environment/application.

You can even see Ford knows the factory recommendations are no good for abuse. Here is what they say for track use. Keep in mind this is for factory power levels too!

Using your vehicle on a dedicated road
course may result in degraded function
and failure of major systems such as the
engine, transmission and rear axle due to
the overheating of these systems. If you
intend to use your vehicle on a dedicated
road course, we suggest that you equip
your vehicle with racing-type coolers to
protect these three systems.

In addition, if the vehicle is subjected to
dedicated road course use, we recommend
the following vehicle durability
maintenance:

• Change your axle lubricant and friction
modifier after the initial (first) hour of
high-speed operation; thereafter
change the axle lubricant and friction
modifier every 12 hours (under these
conditions).

• Change your transmission oil after each
event where your vehicle is subjected
to individual on-track sessions
exceeding 15 minutes.

• Change your engine oil and filter after
each event.

Additionally, perform a multi-point
inspection on items specified in the
scheduled maintenance section of this
owner guide before and after dedicated
road course use. See General
Maintenance Information (page 414).
See the vehicle service manual for removal
and installation procedures. Replace with
Genuine Ford and Motorcraft™ service
parts as needed.

These actions may not necessarily protect
your powertrain from damage in dedicated
road course use. Subjecting your vehicle
to dedicated road course use even with
these proposed precautions may render
repairs non-reimbursable under the
warranty.

 

[oesman]

Just updated the original post with the latest data from Blackstone. What do you guys think of the error rate between the reports? Blackstone claims 3 ppm as their rate, waiting for Oil Analyzers Inc to shoot me theirs. Seems pretty far apart on things like Zinc for example. That can't just be the margin of error, that's super wide apart.

EDIT: Talked to some of my family who are in various material sciences. Said that accuracy is a problem with independent labs and what they do is send identical samples several times to the same lab. For example I could take the same bottle of virgin motor oil and send them samples over 3 weeks and see if they give me identical results or not. They said it's not uncommon to see shockingly different results from identical samples come back from one lab. Ultimately the goal is to find a lab that gives you consistent results.

 

[Barrel]

Fascinating. Thanks for this.

 

[Angry50]

i have heard of many people going to thicker oil. 5w30 and such. i think the track packs/ performance packs were instructed to use 5w50.. being the engine is identical. if they expect you to be hard on the engine it seems something closer to 5w50 should be better? what would be cons of running a higher oil?

 

[Demon Coyote]

I have been running 5w20 N/A and also for a while after being supercharged. However, now I'm running 5w50, mainly because my car revs out to 8200 rpm. I've heard people say it's overkill or not recommended with the stock pump, but I'm just going to follow whatever my tuner says lol.

 

[oesman]

Fascinating. Thanks for this.

Np! Will update when I have more.

i have heard of many people going to thicker oil. 5w30 and such. i think the track packs/ performance packs were instructed to use 5w50.. being the engine is identical. if they expect you to be hard on the engine it seems something closer to 5w50 should be better? what would be cons of running a higher oil?

The Boss model was filled with 5w50 by Ford. Essentially the reason we have these multi-grade (i.e. 5w20, 5w30, 5w50, etc...) oils is to provide protection from cold starts where the oil needs to be thin (i.e. a 0, 5, 10) and protection when the oil needs to be thick (20, 30, 40, 50, etc...)

Why does Ford use 5w20? Probably because it's helping gas milage by being a thin oil. Their logic is in my opinion based on assumptions that the owners won't be pushing their cars too hard, that the car will remain in it's stock configuration, and that it's going to need to be capable of going somewhere pretty cold bone stock with recommended oil filled.

For me the advantage of a thicker oil is that I do push my car hard including going to the track. It's power output at the crank is massively exceeding factory output. The engine is producing a ton of heat and I live in Houston where it's super hot. This excess heat cause the oil to essentially be a thinner oil and will hurt the oils ability to protect the engine. Furthermore I'm not looking to maximize fuel economy and I'm not driving this thing anywhere super cold.

The disadvantages of going too thick is that you may have less protection at cold start going from say a 5w to say a 15w. It will be harder for the oil to get around everywhere very quickly. And on going from a a w20 to a w50 means the oil will take longer to warm up and the engine will experience higher oil pressure. If you go too thick you may actually get higher temperatures, hit to your fuel economy, and a loss of power from the engine.

Ultimately this is a little bit of a balancing act. I went with a Motul 10w40 because the cold and hot temps seemed to fall in line with my expected temperatures and the car being a toy will not see cold weather. I'm still going to be learning which brand and grade oil I end up liking and doing more lab tests.

I have been running 5w20 N/A and also for a while after being supercharged. However, now I'm running 5w50, mainly because my car revs out to 8200 rpm. I've heard people say it's overkill or not recommended with the stock pump, but I'm just going to follow whatever my tuner says lol.

I do not believe the 5w50 factory fill Boss had a different pump, but I'm not certain. I would say definitely based on my lab results and just looking at viscosity temperature charts you can see 5w20 is not really an ideal choice unless you drive moderately, in a cold to moderate climate, and want the best gas milage. The right fill for you may not be 5w50. It really depends on how hard you push the car, i.e. are you really on the track or just doing hard pulls? How hot does it get when you drive? How cold does it get?

 

[Demon Coyote]

I do not believe the 5w50 factory fill Boss had a different pump, but I'm not certain. I would say definitely based on my lab results and just looking at viscosity temperature charts you can see 5w20 is not really an ideal choice unless you drive moderately, in a cold to moderate climate, and want the best gas milage. The right fill for you may not be 5w50. It really depends on how hard you push the car, i.e. are you really on the track or just doing hard pulls? How hot does it get when you drive? How cold does it get?

I don't think it has a different pump either, there's just been a lot of debate and different opinions about 5w50 being overkill. Yessir I see what you are saying and I know that 5w50 might be the perfect choice for me. But at this time since I haven't collected any data myself to make a firm choice on which oil viscosity to use, I'm just going to go with what my tuner recommended (in this case 5w50). True I don't push the car very hard, I go to occasional track days in the summer and take it out on the weekends to get on it every time but that's about it. The shop where I got my OPG/CG installed recommended I go with 5w30 or 10w30, but he said I can go with 5w50 if I really want and he works with my tuner for remote sessions as well.

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