Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[ALUSA]

Ford already stated the GT500 carbon is the fastest Mustang on track ever. So it's faster than the GT350R.

For a $90,000+ it better be. Hats off to Ford if they made that car with 4200 lbs and only 315 rubber faster than a GT350R around a track. I hope they didn’t pick a test track with long straights to justify their victory. Even if they accomplished that the car is probably running more rough than the ZL1 1LE with that weight and stiff suspension.

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[millhouse]

Oh? Care to explain WHY it's limited? I have my money on it not doing much more than that unlimited, so limiting it gave the fanboys like you leeway to say "but but but it COULD be faster!!!"

Ford has already said it's electronically limited. It has the horsepower and gearing to do 200mph. Why you think it can't do more is beyond me. Especially when cars with less horsepower and worse gearing (ZL1) can do 200mph. But you're right, weight is the only thing that matters here.

There is none. If it hits 60 faster, it's accelerating faster below 60. Otherwise, it wouldn't hit 60 faster, now would it?

Again, WRONG! It's acceleration TO 60 faster. All that means is that it gets a better launch out of the hole. This is completely different than the ability for the car to accelerate under 60 mph. Once both cars have traction, the GT500 will be accelerating faster period. Line both cars up at 20 mph and the GT500 will destroy the corvette. It will be accelerating faster....got it. If you don't understand this, I can't help you anymore.

You know, and 0-60, and whatever speed it takes for the GT500 to catch up AFTER 60, and anything above 150 when drag takes effect...

How often do you see roll racing starting at 150 mph? This should be a good one.

The car doesn't come with rear seats, it comes as a 2 seater

And yet, seats and seat-belts are available to install for those (many) that would like to do so.

Sure, they are. But we are DISCUSSING performance here, not the ability to tote your kids around in the back seat.

We are talking what cars have....and the GT500 will have rear seats.

Not a contradiction whatsoever. Potential to be fast doesn't mean it IS fast. A convicted criminal is still a convicted criminal if he had potential in grade school. His grade school behavior was a meaningless measure of his success in life. Just like a car's horsepower alone is meaningless in it's speed

Did you know a Mack truck has 605hp? Must means it's faster than a GT350, right? LMAO

Look up contradiction many, I don't know what to tell you. I could be wrong though. Maybe potential energy has bearing in physics or heat transfer? We should completely ignore horsepower specification from here on out, as they just represent potential...and potential is meaningless. Weight tell you much more.

What impresses me is the ABILITY to perform, which the Corvette has

Please do tell, how does it perform in the 1/4 mile? Around a track? How do these compare against the GT500? You're saying you already know it has the ability to perform and the GT500 doesn't. You must have insider information. Please do tell.

Got any sources to prove this?

Regardless, it's just helping to prove my point. The ZL1 has the same tires, suspension, and brakes as the SS 1LE, but is heavier, and therefore handles worse. it relies on power alone for it to be faster, but is still only slightly slightly faster on track than the SS 1LE

Every major publication...look it up. This is common knowledge.

And the Zl1 is much faster on most tracks than the SS1LE. In head to head testing, the SS1LE was farther behind the GT350R than the GT350R was to the ZL1.
SS1LE at Laguna was over 1.5 seconds slower than the GT350R. At big willow, the GT350R was .5 seconds slower than the ZL1. Bother per motortrend testing.

The ZL1 is much, much faster at the track than the SS1LE.

No, but we can make educated guesses on the factors that are known, which are that it is the same chassis as the GT350 with the same tires and suspension design but SIGNIFICANTLY more weight

You keep on saying same chassis and suspension, but the GT500 has a wider front end and different suspension. The GT500 is much more different than the 350 than the ZL1 is to the SS.

It only has wider front fenders, but has the same size tires. The brakes are VERY similar, and are just .5" bigger. It has *revised* suspension, but nothing significant enough for an improvement. It has a different driveshaft, big whoop

It's not just the fenders, the front track is wider!

And the brakes are 1" larger on the diameter. This is 20% increase in swept area.

And we haven't even started talking about the transmission differences.

Yes, I have. A better question would be have you ever driven a 4000+lb 700+hp car with a 57% front weight bias around track? I assume not, because if you had, you'd know it's pretty awful compared to pretty much any mid-engine car

Have you ever driven an MR2 around a track?

Man this is too easy.

 

[millhouse]

For a $90,000+ it better be. Hats off to Ford if they made that car with 4200 lbs and only 315 rubber faster than a GT350R around a track. I hope they didn’t pick a test track with long straights to justify their victory. Even if they accomplished that the car is probably running more rough than the ZL1 1LE with that weight and stiff suspension.

The ZL1 1LE has solid bushing and multimatic suspension. The GT500R has magneride. It (GT500) is going to ride like a Cadillac compared to the ZL1 1LE.

 

[shogun32]

Line both cars up at 20 mph and the GT500 will destroy the corvette.

There's quite a bit of assuming going on with that statement. Not say you're wrong but which gear you are in, and whether or not the GT500 smokes it's tires instead of accelerating is a not unreasonable question. If the GT500 is on the pipe, I wouldn't be surprised if it's spinning wheels all the way past 1/8 mile and then some.

 

[millhouse]

There's quite a bit of assuming going on with that statement. Not say you're wrong but which gear you are in, and whether or not the GT500 smokes it's tires instead of accelerating is a not unreasonable question. If the GT500 is on the pipe, I wouldn't be surprised if it's spinning wheels all the way past 1/8 mile and then some.

Traction is always an assumption when you're talking this amount of horsepower.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

The ZL1 1LE has solid bushing and multimatic suspension. The GT500R has magneride. It (GT500) is going to ride like a Cadillac compared to the ZL1 1LE.

I can see it already... the fatso $100k Mustang loses on the road course to the 3-4 year old ZL1 1LE and the Mustang fans retort with "yeah but you cant see out of it" and then talk about the daily drivability of the suspension. As if anyone will actually buy a GT500 with track pack and truly daily drive it.

Fact is, the thing is ridiculously heavy. It has its work cut out for it with the Camaro, let alone the C8.

 

[EcoVert]

It has its work cut out for it with the Camaro, let alone the C8.

You camaro trolls are so F ing funny

 

[millhouse]

I can see it already... the fatso $100k Mustang loses on the road course to the 3-4 year old ZL1 1LE and the Mustang fans retort with "yeah but you cant see out of it" and then talk about the daily drivability of the suspension. As if anyone will actually buy a GT500 with track pack and truly daily drive it.

Fact is, the thing is ridiculously heavy. It has its work cut out for it with the Camaro, let alone the C8.

Ignorant statement right here folks.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Ignorant statement right here folks.

Debate rule #14. Don't say anything that could be misconstrued as a confession.

 

[Hack]

There are two ways to look at C7 Grand Sport. You could say it’s a Stingray with a wide body or you could say it’s a Z06 without the boosted engine. I am fairly certain that the C8 Z06 will have a 5.5TT DOHC. If the GS is Z06 minus boost, it will be a 5.5 DOHC NA. That will have significantly more power than an LT2 Stingray.

I really hope we start to see some DOHC engines from GM. It would be awesome if they did an NA 5.5 DOHC in the C8 Grand Sport. Then all they need to do is figure out how to get a manual transmission in there.

Top speed is 194, not 184.

Actually, now I’m seeing that base C8 is 194 and that Z51 with an additional 400 lbs of downforce tops out at 184. You got it right, Hack

Thanks for posting to correct it. Now that I'm a Corvette owner and a GM fanboi I hang out on Corvette forums sometimes. I read the info over there and assumed it was correct, so I'm glad to see you confirm.

I can see it already... the fatso $100k Mustang loses on the road course to the 3-4 year old ZL1 1LE and the Mustang fans retort with "yeah but you cant see out of it" and then talk about the daily drivability of the suspension. As if anyone will actually buy a GT500 with track pack and truly daily drive it.

Fact is, the thing is ridiculously heavy. It has its work cut out for it with the Camaro, let alone the C8.

It's a little heavier than the Camaro. About like having a passenger vs. not having one. It's not ridiculous by any means unless you are a GM fanboi and trying to come up with any possible means to talk down about it.

The GT500 has a much better power to weight ratio than the Camaro. Too bad Chevy can't figure out how to make more power. I guess if you aren't making much power you can run a smaller radiator, smaller brakes, etc. and save weight, huh?

Hopefully someday the Camaro will be able to borrow a DOHC V8 from the C8 so it can run with the BIG DOG GT500.

 

[martinjlm]

I really hope we start to see some DOHC engines from GM. It would be awesome if they did an NA 5.5 DOHC in the C8 Grand Sport. Then all they need to do is figure out how to get a manual transmission in there.

Already stated by Corvette leaders....

Thanks for posting to correct it. Now that I'm a Corvette owner and a GM fanboi I hang out on Corvette forums sometimes. I read the info over there and assumed it was correct, so I'm glad to see you confirm.

All I got goin’ for me is my good looks and my credibility. Tryin’ my best to keep both.

 

[Hack]

Already stated by Corvette leaders....

That's one dead horse I will probably never stop beating. No manual = no fun = no purchase.

 

[nastang87xx]

Then all they need to do is figure out how to get a manual transmission in there.

It would have to be fly by wire which totally defeats the purpose of a manual trans and a clutch pedal where you can FEEL the connection.

 

[Hack]

It would have to be fly by wire which totally defeats the purpose of a manual trans and a clutch pedal where you can FEEL the connection.

Other mid-engine cars have manual transmissions in them.

Heck, the DeTomaso Pantera has a manual transmission along with the best cam in block engine ever designed Ford's 351 Cleveland.

 

[ALUSA]

The C8 has quite a higher top speed, yet is SIGNIFICANTLY down on power... that tells me that the C8 will likely have significantly less drag, meaning it'll probably be pulling harder than the GT500 anywhere north of 130. So we know it'll accelerate faster when below 60, and we can infer that it'll accelerate faster above 130, which means the GT500 has a 70MPH margin of where it could possibly hope to be faster

Me simpleton mindset? You fail to understand the GT500 is electronically limited and the C8 is drag limited.

You also fail to realize the difference between accelerating to 60mph and being able to accelerate faster below 60mph.

Have fun with those 160-195 mph roll races, as this is the only area the corvette could have an advantage.


Tell that to Jay Leno. He immediately put rear seats in his GT350R.
Cars are more than just performance, else none of these would have AC, heated and cooled seats, navigation, etc. Let's not pretend other factors don't come into play here.




Absolutely. These corvettes are going to be everywhere.

As for a corvettes being associated to a mid life car, it is what it is. It wouldn't prevent me from purchasing one, but then again...I'm near mid life myself.



Quite the contradictory statement you have going on here. Is horsepower meaningless, or does it point to a cars potential?

As for the corvette putting down power, why does it impress you? It's a mid engine car, it's now expected to put the power down. What's impressive about that?



The ZL1 doesn't outhandle the SS 1LE yet is much faster around the track. The ZL1 1LE is heavier than the SS yet does outhandle the SS 1LE.

Weight is ONE factor here. You can't make any educated guesses based solely on weight...that is completely short-sided thinking.

The GT500 is wider than the GT350. It has bigger bedder breaks. It has wider tires. It has a different suspension. It has a different driveshaft.

Seriously, everything you said is wrong and proven so with GM's vehicles.




Gotcha. A sub 11 second mustang that is now only being compared against the brand new, mid engine corvette because the ZL1 is already assumed much slower is a failure. Embarrassing.



Have you ever driven a mid engine car around a track? In novice hands, these are going to get wrecked. Once the back end breaks out, they aren't as easy to correct as a front engine vehicle.

Even though I love the Vette, I don't see it pulling away from the GT500 above 130 mph. GT500 will reach its top speed of 180 mph and thats the only way the C8 with the higher top speed start crawling back on it. That much HP and Torque wouldn't allow the C8 to pull above 130 mph. I see 0-60 mph and up to 100 mph the C8 pulling due to less weight and all but after 100 mph its game over. The CD coefficient is pretty low on the C8, GM also reduced the frontal contact area since the engine is in the back but it is not a miracle. If that 0-100-0 time for the GT500 is correct, then we are looking at a mid 10's in the quarter with 130+ mph.

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