Knock / retard timing - bad first tank of gas or boost leak

[s550ecostang]

there was .5 gallon of 87 in and i added 8.5 of 93 premium. so i did my due diligence.

still why is the car making 16-17lbs of boost at 14.4 af/r.

that shit is insane - and also broken.



if i didnt think id lose my warranty Id have that paypal money headed straight to you. havent spent enough time shaking things lose yet.


ill check out the plugs thanks.

Mine did the same thing right of the gate. I know this has been said, but check all of the spark plugs/gaps...** also all of the boost hose clamps (turbo & intercooler) everyone I checked was way to loose. Plus I put in a set of Denso plugs 1 step cooler with a K&N drop in filter and the car ran 100% better. 93oct is the only fuel to use if available.

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[arghx7]

there was .5 gallon of 87 in and i added 8.5 of 93 premium. so i did my due diligence.

still why is the car making 16-17lbs of boost at 14.4 af/r.

that shit is insane - and also broken.

Just because it's not tuned like a 90s SR20DET on stock ECU doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. Just because you don't understand what it's doing doesn't mean it's broken (there's more to combustion than internet forum rules of thumb). Just because you think it's knocking too much doesn't mean the engine is being damaged (below cylinder pressure limits it's fine, even if you understandably don't like how it sounds).

The stock tune is optimized for fuel economy, especially at part throttle. That means the cams are optimized for pumping loss reduction. So instead of valve timing that fills the cylinder best, with highest effective compression ratio, it uses boost to make the requested torque.

The AFR can read lean due to scavenging and from controlling to EGT limits rather than as a fuel firehose to limit knock. The wideband o2 reading and what's actually going on inside the cylinder are not the same. You don't know the in-cylinder AFR. You need an emissions bench (CO2, CO, and O2 concentration) or volumetric measurement of air and fuel to know that.

TL;DR it's stock and it's brand new, trust Ford-the guys who tuned this car are experienced engineers and want best fuel economy.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Just because it's not tuned like a 90s SR20DET on stock ECU doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. Just because you don't understand what it's doing doesn't mean it's broken (there's more to combustion than internet forum rules of thumb). Just because you think it's knocking too much doesn't mean the engine is being damaged (below cylinder pressure limits it's fine, even if you understandably don't like how it sounds).

The stock tune is optimized for fuel economy, especially at part throttle. That means the cams are optimized for pumping loss reduction. So instead of valve timing that fills the cylinder best, with highest effective compression ratio, it uses boost to make the requested torque.

The AFR can read lean due to scavenging and from controlling to EGT limits rather than as a fuel firehose to limit knock. The wideband o2 reading and what's actually going on inside the cylinder are not the same. You don't know the in-cylinder AFR. You need an emissions bench (CO2, CO, and O2 concentration) or volumetric measurement of air and fuel to know that.

TL;DR it's stock and it's brand new, trust Ford-the guys who tuned this car are experienced engineers and want best fuel economy.

On my original tank of gas I had noticed some actual, disturbing pinging associated directly with an instant hesitation moment. Loud ping, car feels like I lifted throttle. when I say "knock" I'm not referring to the "at the limit" knock the ecu tries to achieve at the limit. I'm referring to the extremely bad kind where the ECU says "oh shit" and switches to aggressive safety measures, instantly resulting in a concerning, instant drop in power.

I drove another one yesterday and it isn't doing what mine is. In mine I hear some ping as am getting the boost up, push harder, LOUD PING, and instant power loss. So for me it's broken.

It got better with a tank of 93, but I'm still able to create a nasty ping even in 3rd gear at 3500rpm.

When I say it's "broken" I mean that at 90% throttle its pulling 14.2/1, then if I tip it a little further I hit 11.6/1 that is a pretty significant concern. When the most respected tuner in this sub tells me I need to modify my driving style to avoid ping that is a concern.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Mine did the same thing right of the gate. I know this has been said, but check all of the spark plugs/gaps...** also all of the boost hose clamps (turbo & intercooler) everyone I checked was way to loose. Plus I put in a set of Denso plugs 1 step cooler with a K&N drop in filter and the car ran 100% better. 93oct is the only fuel to use if available.

Ill check the plug gap when I get home next weekend. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[JStang15]

I'm not completely stock (CAI, catback, and NGK plugs) but I am still on the stock tune. I see pretty much identical AFR readings on my car. Will stay right around 14.0 until WOT. However, I've never had any pinging or issues so I assumed the AFR was normal for stock tune.

 

[ultimate warrior]

Small update: while out of town working I got a call from the dealer's customer service rep following up on my purchase. After explaining my woes she immediately sided with me and set up a meet with her and the GM on Tuesday next week.

Also 3 minutes after the call I got another call from the dealer, this time it's the GM. He wanted to assure me this would be resolved. Feeling better. Now all I need to do is get the 93 out of the tank and put 3 gallons of 87 in so it misbehaves badly.

 

[wmsky33]

If you are comfortable working on your car, pull the plugs (when the engine is cool, of course) and check the gaps before taking it into the dealer. It should take you under an hour. Some dealers just want to hook up their diagnostics equipment to the engine and look at that. They don't want to do any work they don't think they need to. One member of this forum had a dealer tell him his problem was bad gas when he was getting misfire DTCs. When he finally checked the plugs himself, he found that the porcelain insulator on one of the plugs had fallen apart.

 

[AR306]

I just got mine in October.. it ran fine on the dealer 87.. I was expecting to notice a huge difference once I filled up with 93.. I must say, I was disappointed.

So far I haven't heard any pinging, but my car is not entirely smooth... the car lurches forward a bit when slowing down to a stop and when pulling away from a stop unless I floor it.. and yeah, I see 14 AFR.. I thought that was normal?.. I also see 18-19psi, again I thought that was normal? My car does seem to burn through more gas than what these other guys claim.. I've never seen better than 18mpg and that's driving it slower than my dead grandma.

 

[nolezack]

Jesus christ these dealers recommending 87 as if it runs best on that octane, shits scary man.... :lol::headbonk:

 

[ultimate warrior]

I don't have an issue pulling plugs - I bought the 4 cylinder because it would be easier to service.

I'll definitely pull the plugs when I get home.

 

[ultimate warrior]

I just got mine in October.. it ran fine on the dealer 87.. I was expecting to notice a huge difference once I filled up with 93.. I must say, I was disappointed.

So far I haven't heard any pinging, but my car is not entirely smooth... the car lurches forward a bit when slowing down to a stop and when pulling away from a stop unless I floor it.. and yeah, I see 14 AFR.. I thought that was normal?.. I also see 18-19psi, again I thought that was normal? My car does seem to burn through more gas than what these other guys claim.. I've never seen better than 18mpg and that's driving it slower than my dead grandma.

After driving another ecoboost the 14 af/r is normal unless you floor it. When flooring it I'm seeing 11.6 which is directly inline with what we used to tune other 4 cylinders too. Is 14/1 great under full boost, imho not really BUT these cars are supposed to have good knock sensing ability and respond to ping/knock before it becomes noticeable to the driver.

I'm sure the tuners can improve the boost/afr ratio at less than full throttle if desired - but I'm just skeptical about getting a vehicle tuned that's not running correct out of the box.

I'll check plugs on Sunday when I get home.

 

[wmsky33]

I'm just skeptical about getting a vehicle tuned that's not running correct out of the box.

Smart. [emoji106]

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[AR306]

Well being that mine is all stock, I tried to do 3/4 and WOT..

Here are some vids.. it's kinda hard recording with a big ass phone while trying not to die heh..


This is WOT:


This is a real short 3/4 Throttle.. at least I think it's 3/4.. kinda hard to judge.

 

[wmsky33]

If you look at this post, http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=547049&postcount=1, you can see the dramatic difference between the factory plugs and plugs that have all been gapped to 0.026". All those flat or negative timing corrections cost power. If you don't want to bother with gapping the plugs yourself, Adam (Tune+), the same Adam who authored the above post, now sells spark plugs that he has checked and pre-gapped to the gap he has determined via testing to perform consistently for all EB Mustangs. Here's a thread about the the plugs; http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37538

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Adam. I just respect his knowledge, his testing, and the way he shares with the Mustang community here.

 

[ultimate warrior]

If you look at this post, http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=547049&postcount=1, you can see the dramatic difference between the factory plugs and plugs that have all been gapped to 0.026". All those flat or negative timing corrections cost power. If you don't want to bother with gapping the plugs yourself, Adam (Tune+), the same Adam who authored the above post, now sells spark plugs that he has checked and pre-gapped to the gap he has determined via testing to perform consistently for all EB Mustangs. Here's a thread about the the plugs; http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37538

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Adam. I just respect his knowledge, his testing, and the way he shares with the Mustang community here.

Went ahead and ordered a set of 4 from Amazon premptively. I'll pull the factory ones out on Sunday, check stock gaps, gap new ones (safe method) and toss them in.

Will report back with my findings. Really appreciate the assistance.

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