Juggernaut outed

[MKL_DS]

This will all be a mute point when AI starts tuning cars.

Imagine being able to look at every single data point in a calibration file, make miniscule changes to any or every data point to dial in every aspect of a car, then rewrite a calibration to exacting parameters all within milliseconds. Now imagine it continuously modifying the calibration several times per second to varying conditions.

No tuner on earth can account for every variable. AI can.

Dodge (and others) have been using ANN in their PCMs for years now. And we're talking about calculating way more than a few data points. Properly crunching a log of the complete system takes literally hours.

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[MKL_DS]

10-15 years ago the majority of tuners worked together amd all belonged to a tuning group and bounced ideas and worked together to make the platforms better

ahh, the good 'ol EFITO days.

It was a great idea....too many egos.

 

[Angrey]

The industry changed. Years ago, most shops made their money off selling and installing parts. Tuning was just the necessary evil at the end of the process. There was cooperation and sharing because people didn't really pick a tuner, they picked a shop/builder/vendor.

In fact, there used to be a lot more relationships with particular power adders. One shop was dedicated to Kenne Bell where another shop was Whipple, where another shop was turbo, etc. Things were more aligned to the type of build you were doing, rather than where it is today where shops are pretty much wide open for parts, but have a relationship/dedication to a particular tuning cult/church.

Sharing ideas and tuning solutions at the time probably wasn't as big of a threat to business or relationships or competitive edge as it is now.

 

[stungjoe]

So fourteen pages of drama all because a dude tried to help a friend get her car running.

Remember an enemy will never be able to betray you. Only a friend can.

 

[frankford_high]

Reconfiguring "settings" in a prescribed set of tables on a tuning portal isn't intellectual property. It's not crude or hyperbole to say if I sit in your car and "tune" your stereo system by adjusting the settings, that now it belongs to me? And if some other "tuner" comes along and doesn't think the bass settings or the front/rear balance is where it should be, that he has to totally zero everything else out before he makes his adjustments?

Again, if you share your recipe for brisket with me and I like everything about it except for which would you use to smoke it and I use my own, am I "pirating" your recipe?

These aren't copyrighted works of literature. They're literally just taking and tweaking settings on a menu of inputs.

The whole discussion is derived from a place of ego where some people have the misguided opinion that it's quantum physics and no one else can do it. (or just as bad, no one else can do it as good as WE can).

There is no excuse in America to moan about intellectual property. If you want something protected, we have some of the best patent and intellectual property laws and systems in the world. If it's that important to you, either invest in encryption, file for protections or stfu about it. If it's not worth protecting properly, there's not a whole lot to moan about.

Several years ago there was a dust up between Injector Dynamics and another "vendor" (vendor is what they are, because they ALL start off with the same Bosch injector, they just add their own tip, some different clothing and then flow test/match them). It's undeniable that ID spends way more time and effort matching their injectors in multiple ways. You're really paying for the time/effort to get them as close as possible and a data table for tuners to match them.

Here's the problem. Once the tuner starts tuning/adjusting, the tables are merely there to get the tuner as CLOSE as possible to start off and then have predictable adjustments (so they're not hunting and bracketing all over the place trying to dial you in). Put another way, the tuner doesn't NEED the data tables. They can start blindly and tune the car in. Hell, they don't really even need the injectors to match from one to another, (although having them all match on a bank simplifies matters). Point is, ID was right to get ass hurt that another company was stealing their data/tables and publishing it as their own. From a very obscure standpoint, they were "stealing" the time and money they had invested into the process. However, from a distant standpoint, if what you were doing was so crucial in the first place, the fact that someone was piggy backing you would become apparent very quickly. If it doesn't, then there's your answer (i.e. if someone can fake being you, then you're not all you thought you were in the first place.)

If someone owns a business making the best tacos in town and their lead chef leaves and opens his own business making tacos. THAT is simply how the world works. There are some things that you just can't "protect." Either you provide something valuable beyond a secret recipe or you don't. And if you do, you need not go around whining about it, your customers will recognize it. If you don't, your customers won't be able to notice without you moaning about it and there's your answer. You're not as special or exclusive as you thought you were.

Same could be said for engine building, transmission building/assembling, whatevs. If you're truly as good as you think you are, it'll show through. If it doesn't and you bitch about it, well, that's evidence that you're not as special in reality as you are in your own mind.

Lund should stick to farming or whatever the fuck he did before. I imagine he fancies himself as some kind of auto biz mogul. Dude was stupid enough not to have his employee sign non-solicitation, non-compete and non-disclosure agreements!

 

[shogun32]

Dude was stupid enough not to have his employee sign non-solicitation, non-compete and non-disclosure agreements!

Not enforceable without a lawsuit and ultimately unlikely to prevail. And void on their face in some jurisdictions.

 

[junits15]

Lund should stick to farming or whatever the fuck he did before. I imagine he fancies himself as some kind of auto biz mogul. Dude was stupid enough not to have his employee sign non-solicitation, non-compete and non-disclosure agreements!

Kind a hard to enforce a non-compete on hacked software....

That's why people get so testy about this stuff, you can't legally protect the effort that goes into creating these files so the only method left is through alliances and friendships. "I wont spill the beans about how so and so tunes cars because he's my friend" "XYZ tuning shop is selling a feature that only I had before someone must have snitched!" You end up paying with your reputation instead of money or legal issues. It becomes a massive drama thing, nobody ever gets in real trouble, they just loose friends.


Anyway this is why I tune my own car because I got sick of this BS on other platforms. I also have very little trust in some of these people but that's a different story lol

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