Improving throttle sensitivity

[Zombo]

I also agree with this. For quite a few years I've been double clutching and blipping on every single downshift. Having to do that in the GT350 felt awkward because of the combination in pedal spacing and blip delay. When you're used to double clutching with blipping quickly, there's a delay in the GT350 blip and the second clutch-in disengages the clutch before the engine can rev the syncros, so the syncros still end up having to take up part of the slack. In the M cars a double clutched downshift feels much more fluid. Yes, you can get used to it, but it's not ideal. Sport mode does seem to help, but the delay is still there.

The best way I can describe it is that in some other sports cars it feels as if the gas pedal is connected to your tach needle by a rigid linkage. In the Shelby the linkage between pedal and tach needle feels softer. Grant it this is metaphorical as there's no actual linkage, but I'm just trying to describe it for those who haven't noticed the difference in other cars.

Interesting observation. I also double de-clutch downshifts constantly in my other cars with great result, but the GT350 never seemed to respond well to this practice. I pretty much gave it up, except for shifting into first on the fly. I figured it was a characteristics of the heavy duty trans. Maybe it's the throttle? I'll have to experiment with it again.

Sponsored

 

[Eritas]

Yes but with a delay.

I think a lot of people here are confusing various terms (the person who drove the M5 for example)

- Turbo lag : From the moment you hit the pedal, boost kicking in
- Linear throttle : The rate of increase in torque/hp with respect to the RPM of the engine
- Throttle response : The speed of engine's throttle body acting on your pedal input. I m sure many people dont even understand what throttle body doss. Throttle body is a flap that opens/closes to let air in the engine. And throttle bodies are usually extremely sensitive and super fast.

My issue is with the 3rd item. Sit in your car while idle and gently tap the throttle at 20% and 50% (but in each tap wait for the throttle sensor to reset which means wait a few seconds for the revs to drop). There is a substantial lag between you hitting the throttle and engine responding. When i substantial, I am comparing this car to not to boss 302 or camaro or subaru wrx or any other midde tier cars BUT cars such as 997 GT3 or 991 GT3, M cars, Corvette z06 (take it as a compliment). If you never blipped the throttle in those cars, you dont know what I m talking about.

Its because of this lag a lot of reviews I read mentions this engine as not quickly revving in low rpms. Its not lack of torque. Its actually nothing bad about the engine. Even if this engine had dual intakes and independently controlled throttle bodies in each cylinder it still would have this problem. This is Ford programming the damn throttle sensor mapping to make it more "street" car because its a pony car half the market is old people etc etc yada yada (or some other reason I dont know). But this is entirely an issue of the damn pedal nothing else.

M5's sport plus mode is just ridiculous, breaks your neck. Throttle is over sensitive plus some 550 ft/lbs torque at 1500 rpm isnt very daily friendly. But no one is asking for that.

So to clarify, your issue is mostly the low RPM response to a (not full throttle) blip?

You can't compare the single throttle body to the ITB BMWs. I've driven pretty much every car you listed and don't feel my Mustang GT severely lacks in terms of throttle response. You should plug in an OBD reader and look at the throttle response to see if there is a delay from your pedal input to the throttle blade opening. If there is no delay, then the 'lag' you're feeling could be the nature of a single throttle body needing to fill the intake plenum.

The Vette is a low revving giant lump and is responsive at low RPM. I wonder if the GT350 intake manifold is just less responsive at very low RPM (which appears to be your main issue) because it's designed to scream to 8,250RPM, compared to my GT intake manifold that has more bottom-end.

I come from a import background before my M3s and Hondas aren't super responsive and need big, long throttle input blips at low RPM but are very responsive when they are 'up on the VTEC cam' and respond to blips very quickly.

If you're above 5,000RPM and blip the throttle, do you have the same delay as when you're at 1,800RPM?

 

[UnhandledException]

So to clarify, your issue is mostly the low RPM response to a (not full throttle) blip?

You can't compare the single throttle body to the ITB BMWs. I've driven pretty much every car you listed and don't feel my Mustang GT severely lacks in terms of throttle response. You should plug in an OBD reader and look at the throttle response to see if there is a delay from your pedal input to the throttle blade opening. If there is no delay, then the 'lag' you're feeling could be the nature of a single throttle body needing to fill the intake plenum.

The Vette is a low revving giant lump and is responsive at low RPM. I wonder if the GT350 intake manifold is just less responsive at very low RPM (which appears to be your main issue) because it's designed to scream to 8,250RPM, compared to my GT intake manifold that has more bottom-end.

I come from a import background before my M3s and Hondas aren't super responsive and need big, long throttle input blips at low RPM but are very responsive when they are 'up on the VTEC cam' and respond to blips very quickly.

If you're above 5,000RPM and blip the throttle, do you have the same delay as when you're at 1,800RPM?

Above 4500 rpm, the throttle is super sharp, so no i dont have that issue there.

You may be right about ITBs but you may also be wrong that maybe Ford specifically tuned this pedal to be soft in low RPMs to ignore certain level of movement. For example when idling, I could easily press the pedal gently for a few mm and not have any kind of engine response at all no matter how long I wait. I think its like a "dead spot" that they made to make the car not jerky but they went a bit overboard.

In the M3s and M5s once you are in sport plus literally even if a turtle goes on the throttle, the engine will respond. I agree thats too much for everyday but I have the option to switch back and forth.

 

[Eritas]

Above 4500 rpm, the throttle is super sharp, so no i dont have that issue there.

You may be right about ITBs but you may also be wrong that maybe Ford specifically tuned this pedal to be soft in low RPMs to ignore certain level of movement. For example when idling, I could easily press the pedal gently for a few mm and not have any kind of engine response at all no matter how long I wait. I think its like a "dead spot" that they made to make the car not jerky but they went a bit overboard.

In the M3s and M5s once you are in sport plus literally even if a turtle goes on the throttle, the engine will respond. I agree thats too much for everyday but I have the option to switch back and forth.

Go drive a 1990's Honda. They do the exact same thing at low RPM. A 997 & 991 GT3 also don't have the same low RPM response (like a 90s Honda or GT350) that they do at high RPM. It may be the nature of high revving engines with single throttle bodies. :shrug:

 

[CSL]

If you just switch modes between normal, sport, and track you can clearly tell the differences in the throttle with each mode. It’s all in the programming. That’s not saying a reprogrammed throttle will give you Coyote torque down low, just that the throttle response and linearity is enhanced through programming.m

When I spoke to Lund about what I could expect with their tune, the first thing he said was a cleaned up throttle. Not a surprise at all to me as my other cars were Lund tuned, and Lund’s throttle, simply put, kicks ass.

 

[Eritas]

If you just switch modes between normal, sport, and track you can clearly tell the differences in the throttle with each mode. It’s all in the programming. That’s not saying a reprogrammed throttle will give you Coyote torque down low, just that the throttle response and linearity is enhanced through programming.m

When I spoke to Lund about what I could expect with their tune, the first thing he said was a cleaned up throttle. Not a surprise at all to me as my other cars were Lund tuned, and Lund’s throttle, simply put, kicks ass.

He said that his initial response/lag (at idle and 1,800RPM) happens in sport & track mode. He said numerous times that it has nothing to do with torque.

He just needs to get the throttle tuner and see if its possible to get the response he's looking for, or if it has to do with the limitations of the engine (like high RPM cars with single throttle bodies like the GT3, Hondas, etc...)

 

[BmacIL]

Above 4500 rpm, the throttle is super sharp, so no i dont have that issue there.

You may be right about ITBs but you may also be wrong that maybe Ford specifically tuned this pedal to be soft in low RPMs to ignore certain level of movement. For example when idling, I could easily press the pedal gently for a few mm and not have any kind of engine response at all no matter how long I wait. I think its like a "dead spot" that they made to make the car not jerky but they went a bit overboard.

In the M3s and M5s once you are in sport plus literally even if a turtle goes on the throttle, the engine will respond. I agree thats too much for everyday but I have the option to switch back and forth.

The engine note of my GT changes even with extremely light pedal pressure (maybe a mm or two of travel). Never once have I ever felt there was actual lag. Maybe it's because of my exhaust that I can notice it more. Not sure what's up with your GT350 but the two I've driven had response just like mine.

 

[UnhandledException]

I just installed the pedalmax and all I can say is the car should have come from the factory like this. Its now as responsive as all the other cars I mentioned and I actually found it to be extremely punchy in the low rpm range. Surge of power comes much quicker and that makes it feel like there is a tiny turbocharger in there. Literally, hands down, THE BEST mod I have ever done to any car not just this one and for $300? Its a no brainer. Every mustang owner must do this, and for a high revving car like gt350, its even more important due to lack of torque down low.

Laugh/dont believe all you want but I even saw a dynograph where a corvette (regular) with this was making 20 whp/ft lb more in very low rpms which makes sense. Its not that the engine makes more power, obviously not, but the power surge comes much quicker.

AND FOR THE RECORD, if you made a mod like this in BMW or Porsche circles, people would literally pay $2000 for it easily. Its amazing how Ford mods are much more affordable and they bring a lot to the table.

 

[krt22]

I disagree, I have actually way too many situations where I am trailing an idiot on the left most lane blocking traffic and I have to quickly downshift from 6th to 5th or 5th to 4th. Not being sarcastic, I run into this at least 5-6 times a day and HALF of those incidents I find myself blipping twice back to back.

Sell the car now, that is simply unacceptable

Either way, I am not sure if this has to do with the low RPM throttle response or the fact that it's in 6th. When the valves are closed things are less...lively.

 

[Eritas]

Lol. All those throttle maps do is get to full throttle sooner. 20% becomes 35%. OMG it's faster! No, you should have pushed the pedal to 35% if you wanted 35%. That's why Sport mode tends to be twitchy and have less room for control than normal mode on most cars (for buyers like you), and why many track drivers run their cars in the less aggressive modes - for more control over the cars response when driving at the limit.

I highly doubt the throttle response (pedal action to throttle body initial movement) is any quicker. You probably just needed bigger blips. But as long as you're happy that's all that matters -making the car better for YOU.

 

[torque124]

M3 (E46/E90/F80), M5 (E60/F10), GT3 (997.1, 997.2, 991.1), C7 Z06

Of course, MCarsFan.

 

[torque124]

Interesting observation. I also double de-clutch downshifts constantly in my other cars with great result, but the GT350 never seemed to respond well to this practice. I pretty much gave it up, except for shifting into first on the fly. I figured it was a characteristics of the heavy duty trans. Maybe it's the throttle? I'll have to experiment with it again.

Interesting thread here, although started by an old troll, MCarsFan....

I can blip on downshift with or without double clutching with great success and pleasure on the GT350, much like I did on the M5 or any of the M3's I had.

.... but why blip when you are on 1800 rpm's ??? You only need to do that when you try to match a lower speed to the higher rpm of the engine needed to be in that speed... without causing engine break and protect the synchro's

1800 RPM's ? I won't bother.

 

[Eritas]

Interesting thread here, although started by an old troll, MCarsFan....

I can blip on downshift with or without double clutching with great success and pleasure on the GT350, much like I did on the M5 or any of the M3's I had.

.... but why blip when you are on 1800 rpm's ??? You only need to do that when you try to match a lower speed to the higher rpm of the engine needed to be in that speed... without causing engine break and protect the synchro's

1800 RPM's ? I won't bother.

His original argument was downshifting from 6th-4th or 5th-4th at 1,800RPM to pass cars on the HWY and when racing cops.

The whole thing is BS because it's not a rev-matching blip when braking (heel-toe) it's a simple right foot on the throttle to rev the engine up as you're downshifting and left foot is on the clutch. If you can't stab 100% throttle in that condition, I don't know what to say other than buy an automatic. Omus if you need to get going on the HWY, you'll likely just grab 3rd, not go from 6-5th...:headbonk:

Conclusion: TROLL

 

[UnhandledException]

All this back and forth doesnt matter anymore. Pedalmax works. No point of arguing, I m happy

 

[THX 138]

His original argument was downshifting from 6th-4th or 5th-4th at 1,800RPM to pass cars on the HWY and when racing cops.

The whole thing is BS because it's not a rev-matching blip when braking (heel-toe) it's a simple right foot on the throttle to rev the engine up as you're downshifting and left foot is on the clutch. If you can't stab 100% throttle in that condition, I don't know what to say other than buy an automatic. Omus if you need to get going on the HWY, you'll likely just grab 3rd, not go from 6-5th...:headbonk:

Conclusion: PedalMax Salesman

FTFY. ;)

Sponsored