Improving throttle sensitivity

[firestarter2]

My guess is the gt350 probably has a TB that is some what over sized. To solve the bucking issue with a large TB the computer gets involved.

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[UnhandledException]

My guess is the gt350 probably has a TB that is some what over sized. To solve the bucking issue with a large TB the computer gets involved.

Maybe they should have used ICTBs

 

[Demonic]

My guess is the gt350 probably has a TB that is some what over sized. To solve the bucking issue with a large TB the computer gets involved.

Maybe they should have used ICTBs

I hadn't thought about the one big throttle body being associated with the issue but that sounds like a good point. I had looked into ITB assemblies out of curiosity but there's nothing plug and play or costing less than a small ton of money.

 

[Eritas]

M3 (E46/E90/F80), M5 (E60/F10), GT3 (997.1, 997.2, 991.1), C7 Z06

I disagree, I have actually way too many situations where I am trailing an idiot on the left most lane blocking traffic and I have to quickly downshift from 6th to 5th or 5th to 4th. Not being sarcastic, I run into this at least 5-6 times a day and HALF of those incidents I find myself blipping twice back to back.

I got nothing for you. Sounds like you need to work on your foot work.

If stomping on it in sport mode doesn't make the engine rev fast enough, doing anything to the throttle maps won't do anything to improve a part-throttle blip. You'd need a lighter clutch/flywheel or ITBs to improve the response. Having owned a few M cars myself, I've always found them to be annoyingly touchy and overly sensitive.

My GT does not have any of the problems you are talking about for blipping the throttle.

 

[JAJ]

My guess is the gt350 probably has a TB that is some what over sized. To solve the bucking issue with a large TB the computer gets involved.

Since the 2011 Coyote, the ECU has used a selection of predictive measures to know exactly how much air will go into the cylinder one or more crank revolutions before it happens. The link between commanded torque and throttle angle is very precise and takes into account the time to fill the manifold. I've measured the delay on a Coyote and it's negligible.

However, for a variety of unknown reasons, they have created delays and slow ramps in the pedal processing before the commanded torque tables. I have no actual idea why they did it, but the most obvious purpose would be to maximize fuel economy on the prescribed test route for EPA testing. Unlike a famous German company that disabled all this rigmarole for everyday driving, Ford uses it in testing and it stays in place every time you drive your car.

 

[firestarter2]

Since the 2011 Coyote, the ECU has used a selection of predictive measures to know exactly how much air will go into the cylinder one or more crank revolutions before it happens. The link between commanded torque and throttle angle is very precise and takes into account the time to fill the manifold. I've measured the delay on a Coyote and it's negligible.

However, for a variety of unknown reasons, they have created delays and slow ramps in the pedal processing before the commanded torque tables. I have no actual idea why they did it, but the most obvious purpose would be to maximize fuel economy on the prescribed test route for EPA testing. Unlike a famous German company that disabled all this rigmarole for everyday driving, Ford uses it in testing and it stays in place every time you drive your car.

Ah maybe!! I put oversized TB on my last car and i hated it, youd hit a pothole and start to buck drove me nuts

 

[THX 138]

Another point I want to make is how much time it takes to blip the throttle when car is below 1800 rpm. And even if I floor the pedal to the point the pedal touches the floor, it takes a good second or more for the car to respond. Thats something I hated since day one. Every other sports car I owned was better in this aspect.

Problem identified. This car should never be driven below 2,000 RPM. I rarely drive below 2,200 RPM, and even that's really too low. High load at a low RPM will induce knock and cut power as the engine pulls timing.

If you're below 2,000 RPM on the highway, you're in the wrong gear. If you're driving in 6th gear on the highway at 1,800 RPM in order to maximize your fuel economy, you're in the wrong car.

 

[Demonic]

Problem identified. This car should never be driven below 2,000 RPM. I rarely drive below 2,200 RPM, and even that's really too low. High load at a low RPM will induce knock and cut power as the engine pulls timing.

If you're below 2,000 RPM on the highway, you're in the wrong gear. If you're driving in 6th gear on the highway at 1,800 RPM in order to maximize your fuel economy, you're in the wrong car.

Flat-foot shifting much? ;)

 

[CSL]

Since the 2011 Coyote, the ECU has used a selection of predictive measures to know exactly how much air will go into the cylinder one or more crank revolutions before it happens. The link between commanded torque and throttle angle is very precise and takes into account the time to fill the manifold. I've measured the delay on a Coyote and it's negligible.

However, for a variety of unknown reasons, they have created delays and slow ramps in the pedal processing before the commanded torque tables. I have no actual idea why they did it, but the most obvious purpose would be to maximize fuel economy on the prescribed test route for EPA testing. Unlike a famous German company that disabled all this rigmarole for everyday driving, Ford uses it in testing and it stays in place every time you drive your car.

Agree....it's in the OEM tune. If they would have done a track key they would have addressed this and probably not much more. Get a tune from a reliable tuner and the throttle will come alive. To get a mere taste of what it could be, drive in track mode. The only problem with a tune is the warranty issue, should a sudden loss of oil pressure find it's way into your life. Those are dice I'm not ready to roll.

 

[MAV]

I had my TB out this weekend to do some port work on it, and while it was off, I opened up the side cover. I noticed that the reduction gear between the stepper motor and the throttle plate shaft has a good amount of slop in it, which may explain some of the lack of response some have described here.

 

[UnhandledException]

Problem identified. This car should never be driven below 2,000 RPM. I rarely drive below 2,200 RPM, and even that's really too low. High load at a low RPM will induce knock and cut power as the engine pulls timing.

If you're below 2,000 RPM on the highway, you're in the wrong gear. If you're driving in 6th gear on the highway at 1,800 RPM in order to maximize your fuel economy, you're in the wrong car.

I think most of the forum knows about my particular habits of driving this car at high rpms to the point of being called excessive. That being said even I drive on 6th gear sometimes especially where you have state troopers during rush hour every few miles and during times I just cant wind up the engine due to traffic.

This is why the car has "maps" and sport mode should have a throttle map that mimics the BMW M's "sport+" throttle map. You dont always drive in this mode but you switch to this mode when you need to.

And again, this is nothing to do with torque or low end power. The car has a very shitty throttle pedal response. Even when idling at 800 rpm, there is a significant delay when you touch the pedal. The delay disappears when you are driving at partial throttle and go wider throttle but to me this is no fix.

I dont know what this pedalmax thing will do as far as fixing this particular issue. If it makes the car way too jumpy to the point the linear modulation of the throttle disappears, then I ll return it. I m not looking for an artificial/terrible pedal modulation feel. I m guessing the pedal max people are not idiots and would code this properly.

 

[svttim]

Its not zappy guys, you should drive an m3 or m5 but anyways yes pedal commander is what I was asking. Thank you.

Drove a brand new M5 at a BMW event in Chicago Last week. If you think the GT350 response is bad...... Felt like minutes before the car would respond

I'm going to check the response in Sport mode and if its not great, my tuner can change it

 

[Eritas]

Unhandled - if you stomp on the gas and go full throttle immediately, does it respond and rev fast enough for you?

 

[icormba]

I notice poor throttle response at cold, which is probably a good thing. I do agree... comparing it to my SRT or even my RS the GT350 does need more throttle at low speed. However, it's way sensitive once at speed in sport. Especially noticeable when resonators are removed!

I cant think of too many situations where you would really need to blip it at 1800rpm

The only time I'm lower than 1800 rpm is in my driveway!! ;)

I disagree, I have actually way too many situations where I am trailing an idiot on the left most lane blocking traffic and I have to quickly downshift from 6th to 5th or 5th to 4th. Not being sarcastic, I run into this at least 5-6 times a day and HALF of those incidents I find myself blipping twice back to back.

Why are you in 6th??? ;)

 

[UnhandledException]

Unhandled - if you stomp on the gas and go full throttle immediately, does it respond and rev fast enough for you?

Yes but with a delay.

I think a lot of people here are confusing various terms (the person who drove the M5 for example)

- Turbo lag : From the moment you hit the pedal, boost kicking in
- Linear throttle : The rate of increase in torque/hp with respect to the RPM of the engine
- Throttle response : The speed of engine's throttle body acting on your pedal input. I m sure many people dont even understand what throttle body doss. Throttle body is a flap that opens/closes to let air in the engine. And throttle bodies are usually extremely sensitive and super fast.

My issue is with the 3rd item. Sit in your car while idle and gently tap the throttle at 20% and 50% (but in each tap wait for the throttle sensor to reset which means wait a few seconds for the revs to drop). There is a substantial lag between you hitting the throttle and engine responding. When i substantial, I am comparing this car to not to boss 302 or camaro or subaru wrx or any other midde tier cars BUT cars such as 997 GT3 or 991 GT3, M cars, Corvette z06 (take it as a compliment). If you never blipped the throttle in those cars, you dont know what I m talking about.

Its because of this lag a lot of reviews I read mentions this engine as not quickly revving in low rpms. Its not lack of torque. Its actually nothing bad about the engine. Even if this engine had dual intakes and independently controlled throttle bodies in each cylinder it still would have this problem. This is Ford programming the damn throttle sensor mapping to make it more "street" car because its a pony car half the market is old people etc etc yada yada (or some other reason I dont know). But this is entirely an issue of the damn pedal nothing else.

M5's sport plus mode is just ridiculous, breaks your neck. Throttle is over sensitive plus some 550 ft/lbs torque at 1500 rpm isnt very daily friendly. But no one is asking for that.

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