Imported vs. Domestic-made Wheels?

[Hurricane]

In the United States, you can find a cheaper, foreign-made version of just about anything. Most notably, China is a huge producer of cheap, knock-off products, covering everything from appliances to watches. Considering the huge market in the US for car and truck wheels, it's no surprise that many companies have their products made overseas. After all, businesses are out to make money. Heck, the S550 itself isn't even made with 100% American parts.

Here's my question: Other than being able to say that I bought a "Made in America" product, is there any REAL benefit to spending a significant amount of extra money on a set of wheels made in this country? I totally understand the differences in HOW wheels are made (gravity casting, pressure casting, rotary forging, etc.), but I'm concerned with WHERE they are made in relation to quality and durability. Over the years, I have bought plenty of Chinese-made products that are good, but also many that are horrible.

For example, let's take three 5-spoke wheels that are almost identical in appearance, the DF5 from LMR, the Rovos Durban and the Vossen CV3. A 20x8.5/10 staggered set of the DF5s in gunmetal is about $765 without any coupon/promo codes, while a set of Durbans in the same size/color costs almost twice as much at $1,400. A set of the CV3s in 20x9/10.5 costs a whopping $2,500 which is more than THREE times the amount of the DF5s.

While I can't find the exact details/location anywhere, I imagine the DF5s are gravity cast and made in China. The Durbans are low-pressure cast and likely made overseas as well, since I can't find any concrete information about where they're manufactured. If they are made in the US, that is something that I would want to shout from the rooftops if I'm Rovos, so I'm guessing they're not. Lastly, the CV3s are low-pressure cast as well, but made in the USA, as their website clearly and proudly states.

The DF5s weigh about 28lbs each. The Durbans and the CV3s are the same, at about 25-27lbs each based on what info I could dig up. Let's face it though, on a 3700lb car, no one is going to notice an extra 2-3lbs at each corner.

With all this info in mind, can anyone tell me why an individual should purchase a set of more expensive wheels other than bragging rights? Are there any safety or reliability issues in play here? My car is a DD and doesn't get raced. While I definitely do enjoy talking about the car to other people, I'm not one to blurt out or brag in conversation how much every part or mod costs unless someone specifically asks. Besides, with the car moving or even sitting still at a meet, a person wouldn't even be able to tell the brand of wheels anyway without getting REAL close to them or outright asking you.

If any of you M6G.com wheel manufacturer or retailer sponsors out there can share some more info regarding this topic, I'd definitely be happy to hear it. Thanks!

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[Chad11491]

if it's cast vs cast i would go with the cheaper option, to a point. I think you're basically paying for finish quality at that point. There's no way i'd pay what vossen or velgen or any of these companies want for heavy cast wheels. you can get flow formed cheaper than that, and they'll be lighter too.

 

[Aarron_M]

The real question shouldn't be about where they're made...it should be about who designed them, and who stole the design.

When someone takes the time and effort to invent a product, test it, put all the research into it, verify that it works and is safe, advertise the product, hire all the employees to market, sell and produce that product...

how would you feel when some other company just buys one of your product, and reverse engineers it, removes your markings, and sells it as their own? And far cheaper, because they didn't have to do any of the hard work involved in creating something new. You're supporting someone who steals from an inventor/artist, and likely putting that inventor/artist one step closer to going out of business.

Who do you want to reward?

 

[UNtamed67]

Anyone knows of an alternative for the Roush 5 spoke or Vossen VPS-302?

http://www.roushperformance.com/parts/2015-Mustang-Quicksilver-Cast-Aluminum-Wheel-20-inch.html

http://forged.vossenwheels.com/wheel/vps-302/

PS Aarron_M, got your point but a 5 spoke is not really an exclusive design...

This is what I would call exclusive :
http://www.vossenwheels.com/Gallery/WheelDetails.aspx?id=2499

 

[18psi]

fun fact: look on the inside of your OEM Ford wheels: they're made in china

Actually, 90% of OEM wheels are made in china these days, despite owners proudly proclaiming 'MURICUHHH

 

[Hurricane]

The real question shouldn't be about where they're made...it should be about who designed them, and who stole the design.

When someone takes the time and effort to invent a product, test it, put all the research into it, verify that it works and is safe, advertise the product, hire all the employees to market, sell and produce that product...

how would you feel when some other company just buys one of your product, and reverse engineers it, removes your markings, and sells it as their own? And far cheaper, because they didn't have to do any of the hard work involved in creating something new. You're supporting someone who steals from an inventor/artist, and likely putting that inventor/artist one step closer to going out of business.

Who do you want to reward?

While I agree with you to a point, we're talking about wheels here. There's not really anything "technical" about them. Wheels are merely a hunk of metal fashioned into a circular shape. For example, it's not the same as a Chinese company reverse-engineering a $1,500 Nikon camera lens and selling it for $250, which as an amateur photographer I can tell you happens a LOT. While the techniques for manufacturing wheels have changed over the years, they are all going to be inherently round in shape. Because of the limitations of physics, wheels are also going to have only so many spoke patterns available. There's only so many ways you can have between three and say, twenty spokes on a wheel before the designs begin to overlap each other. The Ford Model T came with 12-spoke wheels. Does that mean every 12-spoke wheel made since then "stole" from Ford? I would argue that no, they didn't.

The manufacturers make wheels mostly based on what the market currently demands. If 5-spokes are popular, everybody puts out a "new" 5-spoke wheel in their lineup. If 14-spoke "racing-style" or 7-spoke "Euro-style" wheels become popular, you see everyone making those instead. A good example of this is the Mustang GT350/R wheels. While not everyone can afford one of those cars, some would like to at least have their wheels. While MRR is the first company (that I've seen anyway) to produce S550 Mustang wheels in that pattern, I'm sure in a year or two, we'll see foreign-made versions for ~$200 each. That's just how the market works. Now, is MRR the first company to make a 10-spoke wheel? Certainly not. Nor will they be the last. Should we fault them for this? Of course not. They're just making what the buyers are currently interested in.

The goal of my original question is to determine if there is a major quality and/or safety difference between more costly wheels like MRR's $375 apiece flow-formed M350 vs. a less expensive Chinese-made cast version that will surely be released somewhere down the road. While they may be lighter, I'm again not concerned about or questioning a few additional pounds.

 

[Aarron_M]

Anyone knows of an alternative for the Roush 5 spoke or Vossen VPS-302?

http://www.roushperformance.com/parts/2015-Mustang-Quicksilver-Cast-Aluminum-Wheel-20-inch.html

http://forged.vossenwheels.com/wheel/vps-302/

PS Aarron_M, got your point but a 5 spoke is not really an exclusive design...

This is what I would call exclusive :
http://www.vossenwheels.com/Gallery/WheelDetails.aspx?id=2499

ADV1's ADV7R...maybe not so exclusive.

I'm not saying only 1 company can have the rights to a 5 spoke design, or whatever...it's about supporting the companies that are designing new things, and not stealing intellectual property for profit. This is just my take on the process.

 

[executiV]

Just an FYI, Vossen's site specifically states their FORGED wheels are made in USA. I don't see where it states the cast lineup is made. Nothing against Vossen just something I noticed when I was researching wheels, I asked the same questions after I bought my Forgestars. I thought they were actually forged, then learned of Flow Forming while researching trying to find where they were made. That said I also own a set of forged wheels that cost the same as my Forgestars and are made in the US, go figure.

 

[RubyRed15]

I just assume that even if they say "made in America", what they mean is "we performed finish machining on these Chinese castings." Made in America doesn't tell you much anymore.

 

[Need4SpeedMotors]

Ill be more then happy to answer this for you guys being that I am a vendor, brick and mortar shop, I help co design and develop wheels and now we are developing our own wheels.

1. whats the difference Cast, Flow forged/Flow form ( spun forged, rotory forged) and Forged plus a video of each process for you.

Cast Wheels:

One-Piece Cast Wheels. This is the most common type of aluminum wheel. The casting of wheels is the process of getting molten aluminum inside a mold to form a wheel.

[ame]

Rotory Forged wheels

The rim of the wheels is forged at high pressure while the wheel is spun at high speed. This alters the molecular structure and enhances the strength of the alloy. The benefit is a much lighter weight than a regular cast wheel. Most importantly, the weight saving is in the outer rim of the wheel which dramatically reduces rotational mass and enhances vehicle performance.

[ame]

Fully Forged wheel

The stucture and strength of solid aluminum is by all means superior to that of liquid aluminum. Being produced with intense pressure, forged wheel rims are 3 times stronger than cast ones.

[ame]



Now one quick thing @RubyRed15 when Vossen said Made in American what they mean is its all made in America, so their forged wheels are designed at their location by a team of engineers. The Ingot itself is produced here in the stated then sent to them, there they do the machining, shaving, drilling and finishing all in house prior to shipping them out.

Now @executiV the Vossen CV series is low pressure cast created in Taiwan

Now that all being said whats the difference between China and Taiwan their the same right.... Wrong

A large majority of the well known brand wheels are made in Taiwan why is that because even though cost is less then say Japan, Germany, UK or the USA it still allows for a good quality wheel that passes JWL and VIA certifications as well as in some cases TUV if the wheel is tested for that.

Wheels made in China tend to at times be lower quality and the quality control is less, but this is changing through time.

For instance my Project 6GR wheel is spun forged using the best German Spun forging machine in the world ( one of only 2 made) and is created in Taiwan, it meets JWL and VIA certs while being Mustang specific and light and strong for members that want to rock them on the track.

@Hurricane now in regards to your question whats the difference. A majority of wheels made here in the states are Forged wheels why, because if we were to make a low pressure cast or rotory forged, spun forged, flow forge, flow formed wheel here in the states the cost would be much higher thus not allowing the wheels that members really like to be at a very cost effective pricepoint for them.

The Wheels made here are ADV1, HRE, Niche Forged, Kompressor etc. and as you can see the cost of these wheels is high touching that 1% of the client market, but the other 99% are members.

Now that being said when you have for instance the above wheels you are able to say you have them its a kind of bragging right, but their also amazing wheels so you do pay for what you get which are amazing.

Now truthfully if we compare forged wheels I would say if you can spend the 10k then yes go for it but if not and you desire a good wheel at a good price point then a wheel from overseas is more then fine.

 

[Hurricane]

Just an FYI, Vossen's site specifically states their FORGED wheels are made in USA. I don't see where it states the cast lineup is made. Nothing against Vossen just something I noticed when I was researching wheels [...]

Ah, thanks for digging into that some more. It is indeed difficult to find out EXACTLY where certain things are made these days, no matter how hard you try!

I just assume that even if they say "made in America", what they mean is "we performed finish machining on these Chinese castings." Made in America doesn't tell you much anymore.

Sad, but true. Since that is likely the situation with a lot of wheels though, I guess the people who drop $500+ on a single wheel then are buying them mostly just because they can and they treat it like a status symbol. To be realistic, I don't need a 400+ horsepower car to get me to work and back either, but I get immense enjoyment from it and I can comfortably afford it, so why not? As for the wheels, could I afford a $2,000 set of wheels? Yes, but if a $750 set that looks 99% the same and is perhaps just as safe and durable, why spend the extra money on a name that no one can read at 60mph anyway?:shrug:

 

[Need4SpeedMotors]

anyone know why the tags arent working?

 

[wildcatgoal]

For instance my Project 6GR wheel is spun forged using the best German Spun forging machine in the world ( one of only 2 made) and is created in Taiwan, it meets JWL and VIA certs while being Mustang specific and light and strong for members that want to rock them on the track.

Ooooooooo baby can't wait to get mine! :love::clap2::first::cheers:

 

[Need4SpeedMotors]

Ooooooooo baby can't wait to get mine! :love::clap2::first::cheers:

me as well lol, im dying over here but keeping myself level with answering all the posts and threads.

 

[Hurricane]

@Hurricane now in regards to your question whats the difference. A majority of wheels made here in the states are Forged wheels why, because if we were to make a low pressure cast or rotory forged, spun forged, flow forge, flow formed wheel here in the states the cost would be much higher thus not allowing the wheels that members really like to be at a very cost effective pricepoint for them.

The Wheels made here are ADV1, HRE, Niche Forged, Kompressor etc. and as you can see the cost of these wheels is high touching that 1% of the client market, but the other 99% are members.

Now that being said when you have for instance the above wheels you are able to say you have them its a kind of bragging right, but their also amazing wheels so you do pay for what you get which are amazing.

Now truthfully if we compare forged wheels I would say if you can spend the 10k then yes go for it but if not and you desire a good wheel at a good price point then a wheel from overseas is more then fine.

Thank you Paul for the videos and detailed response! You answered my questions dead on. :cheers:
While I will still try to find out where a particular wheel is made, I won't have any worries if I end up purchasing cast wheels that originated in Taiwan or some other non-Chinese nation. In relation to what you talked about in the manufacturing process, Nikon makes all but their most expensive camera bodies and lenses in Thailand as opposed to Japan. Having seen and owned products from both nations, I can say that the Thai quality is right there with the Japanese in 99% of Nikon's stuff. Just a beneficial side-effect of having a global economy, I guess.

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