I Just Fully Upgraded The Suspension On My 2020 GT PP1 Magneride And I'm Not Happy With The Steeda Dual Rate Springs - Looking For Recommendations

[Robottrainer]

Title says it best. I just added a bunch of suspension goodies to my 2020 GT PP1 Magneride and I think I may have taken it a bit too far with choosing the Steeda dual rate springs. I drive on the street right now, mainly back country roads which are not always in the greatest shape. The wheel hop is totally gone now, but man does this thing feel rough on bumpy roads. Here's what I'm running with right now:
BMR -
Cradle bushing lockout kit
Lower control arm bearing
Rear vertical links
Rear toe rods
Rear camber links and lockouts
Front and rear adjustable sway bars
Sway bar end links
Front k-member chassis brace
Rear cradle centering sleeves
Front camber plates

Steeda:
Front roll center & bumpsteer correction kit
Dual rate ultimate handling springs for Magneride

And I think out of all these parts, the springs are what really killed the streetability of the ride. I admittedly bought in too much to the "dual rate" hype of being the best of both worlds and very docile on the street, but monsters when pushed hard. And while the car corners like an absolute race car when the roads are flat and well paved, it's a basket case on the choppier stuff. It feels like it's going to trampoline me right off the road. Either that or break my back.

Either way, those springs have to go. I'll probably end up keeping them to swap in for track weekends, as they really are amazing when the road is level. But I need a great set of street springs for my normal day to day driving. Admittedly, that daily driving is flying down country back roads at high rates of speed, but I need something that can handle bumps a whole lot better.

I'm considering just going back to the stock PP1 springs, the car with the magneride and those springs would almost glide over bumps. It would take them better than my Explorer ST, which surprised me. Big bumps, potholes, uneven surfaces, everything felt great. I just wanted to firm it up a bit in the corners. So I overshot my goal by a lot. I'm hoping that with all the other stuff I added, the handling will be much improved without needing springs, or allowing for much softer springs for the street without sacrificing balance.

So here's my question - What's the best spring for a setup like mine that will yield the best ride quality. I think the handling improvements of stiffer springs for day to day driving is going to be negligible, and I can't push the envelope that hard on the street to really tell the difference. I know the ride is never going to be cloud-soft like driving an Escalade on a freeway, but I want it to be as close to as it felt stock or better. I don't care about lowering the car, if they do then great, if they don't then that's great too. I just want to get the enjoyment back for the driving I like to do.

So what's everybody's opinion on this? Just go back to stock? Is there a great progressive spring for Magneride that feels even better than the stock spring?

Thanks!

I found the opposite. The handling got better and the ride got better. I didn't do the roll center or bump steer. Didn't seem to need it.

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[NightmareMoon]

My experience with the DRs on a non-magnaride car (w/ koni shocks) was that they felt amazing on track and the ride was unsufferably busy on normal roads. I don’t recommend them at all for people with street cars and sensitive butts.

a lot of the issue with the ride quality on my car was the dampers which just were not up to the challenge on the street. (On track and set on stiff rebound settings they were fine).

anyway, its not surprising to me at all that somebody wouldn’t like the ride, esp if you’re the sort of driver who is running a mild alignment to prioritize street wear. You have to be a little crazier than that to suffer the high spring rate on a daily driver and like the tradeoffs.

but make sure you are using shorter than stock bumpstops. That could have a major effect. In the rear, the J&M upper shock mounts have a higher setting which can get you more travel before you bump the stops too. Make sure you aren’t doing something dumb like running your swaybars full stiff, that will ruin the ride too. Your 20” wheels with /30 sidewalls are also contributing to the ride quality issue.

I still run the DR rears but with even stiffer front linear coilover springs, but daily ride quality is not my priority.

 

[shogun32]

My experience with the DRs on a non-magnaride car (w/ koni shocks) was that they felt amazing on track and the ride was unsufferably busy on normal roads. I don’t recommend them at all for people with street cars and sensitive butts.

I spent a few hours playing on my 2 test loops last night and have to agree.

The DR springs only really work when you're driving it HARD. Like hard onto the brakes as you enter a 4-leaf, or gas it out hard going uphill curves with a favorable camber. Driving on track is typically a much more ham-fisted affair where you are putting SUDDEN and HEAVY pitching loads into the chassis and that is where the DR really helps, as it also puts force into already gummy tires.

If you drive your DR car like a momentum car on public roads where you're braking is done before (or very early) in a corner entry and you're not stomping hard on the gas, and your tires are at ambient, I think it's safe to say the spring rate is causing the sidewall to bear more brunt than it's really designed to happily handle. And especially the rear feels disconcerting. Unless your goal is to pivot the car with throttle...

The front spring rate is just too high to swallow street-bumps and so the hood visually bounces up and down and you get bounced around a bit in the seat.

I've changed my mind, and will side with @bnightstar and suggest replace the rears to 750-850 range, but leave the fronts on the DR for the moment.

IMO the DR is wound wrong for dual-purpose. Steeda's choice is likely an outgrowth of their track testing at horribly bumpy tracks like Sebring. Not to say they won't work fantastic at eg. VIR or Road Atlanta where you have heavy suspension loading at various spots.

IMO if they REALLY want to court street drivers it needs to be wound so that you get no less than 1" if not 1.5" of the lower rate and THEN the high rate kicks in to stabilize further chassis pitch.

Anyone got a few thousand dollars to commission Eibach to do a custom wind?

 

[sadams930]

My experience with the DRs on a non-magnaride car (w/ koni shocks) was that they felt amazing on track and the ride was unsufferably busy on normal roads. I don’t recommend them at all for people with street cars and sensitive butts.

a lot of the issue with the ride quality on my car was the dampers which just were not up to the challenge on the street. (On track and set on stiff rebound settings they were fine).

anyway, its not surprising to me at all that somebody wouldn’t like the ride, esp if you’re the sort of driver who is running a mild alignment to prioritize street wear. You have to be a little crazier than that to suffer the high spring rate on a daily driver and like the tradeoffs.

but make sure you are using shorter than stock bumpstops. That could have a major effect. In the rear, the J&M upper shock mounts have a higher setting which can get you more travel before you bump the stops too. Make sure you aren’t doing something dumb like running your swaybars full stiff, that will ruin the ride too. Your 20” wheels with /30 sidewalls are also contributing to the ride quality issue.

I still run the DR rears but with even stiffer front linear coilover springs, but daily ride quality is not my priority.

I'm only comparing the ride with the 30 series tires already installed. The ride was very compliant with them on there and the stock suspension. The sways are set to softest rear and second firmest front. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with the bump stops themselves. I have the rear camber links and lockouts on the rear, are you referring to another part? And on the front the only things that were done was the steeda bumpersteer kit, and I'm not sure if that addresses the bumpstops at all.

Would you mind linking a shortened bumpstop like you mentioned?

 

[NightmareMoon]

Do MR cars use bump stops?

 

[TeeLew]

Do MR cars use bump stops?

None that I've ever seen, but there could be an internal one.

 

[TeeLew]

Check this out. If you've got things really working right, you can just dump max current at a certain displacement and it's a hydraulic bump stop. It's not perfect, but it's not nothing, either.

 

[TeeLew]

A reasonably good description of staged spring arrangements vs a progressively wound spring. I tend towards linear spring rates because it's just too easy to induce something you didn't intend with variable rates, but there are many different approaches.

https://eibach.com/us/p-108-eibach-ero-eibach-racing-off-road-system-guide.html

 

[GTP]

Title says it best. I just added a bunch of suspension goodies to my 2020 GT PP1 Magneride and I think I may have taken it a bit too far with choosing the Steeda dual rate springs. I drive on the street right now, mainly back country roads which are not always in the greatest shape. The wheel hop is totally gone now, but man does this thing feel rough on bumpy roads. Here's what I'm running with right now:
BMR -
Cradle bushing lockout kit
Lower control arm bearing
Rear vertical links
Rear toe rods
Rear camber links and lockouts
Front and rear adjustable sway bars
Sway bar end links
Front k-member chassis brace
Rear cradle centering sleeves
Front camber plates

Steeda:
Front roll center & bumpsteer correction kit
Dual rate ultimate handling springs for Magneride

And I think out of all these parts, the springs are what really killed the streetability of the ride. I admittedly bought in too much to the "dual rate" hype of being the best of both worlds and very docile on the street, but monsters when pushed hard. And while the car corners like an absolute race car when the roads are flat and well paved, it's a basket case on the choppier stuff. It feels like it's going to trampoline me right off the road. Either that or break my back.

Either way, those springs have to go. I'll probably end up keeping them to swap in for track weekends, as they really are amazing when the road is level. But I need a great set of street springs for my normal day to day driving. Admittedly, that daily driving is flying down country back roads at high rates of speed, but I need something that can handle bumps a whole lot better.

I'm considering just going back to the stock PP1 springs, the car with the magneride and those springs would almost glide over bumps. It would take them better than my Explorer ST, which surprised me. Big bumps, potholes, uneven surfaces, everything felt great. I just wanted to firm it up a bit in the corners. So I overshot my goal by a lot. I'm hoping that with all the other stuff I added, the handling will be much improved without needing springs, or allowing for much softer springs for the street without sacrificing balance.

So here's my question - What's the best spring for a setup like mine that will yield the best ride quality. I think the handling improvements of stiffer springs for day to day driving is going to be negligible, and I can't push the envelope that hard on the street to really tell the difference. I know the ride is never going to be cloud-soft like driving an Escalade on a freeway, but I want it to be as close to as it felt stock or better. I don't care about lowering the car, if they do then great, if they don't then that's great too. I just want to get the enjoyment back for the driving I like to do.

So what's everybody's opinion on this? Just go back to stock? Is there a great progressive spring for Magneride that feels even better than the stock spring?

Thanks!

Steve, our cars are very similar, except for springs. I have 2019 GT PP1, sphericals everywhere, CB005, GT350r bars f/r, magneride, upgraded toe and vertical links, etc.

I rode in my friends M1 to see if his ride was any stiffer. MR made both cars feel fine on the street. The non-HP M1 front springs are about the same as GT350 (194#), and the HP version is stiffer (211#). My rear PP1 springs are a touch softer than GT350, and so I swapped out my OEM front springs for the non-HP M1 front springs.

My car is "reasonably" neutral on track, but still very pleasant on the street. I wouldn't go any stiffer. Been there, done that before, and I hated my car on the street.

So if our cars and tastes are similar, I would suggest swapping springs out, but no stiffer than M1 HP or GT350 (especially with MR).

 

[thornclaw]

my understanding of the dual rate spring is that it’s actually a very stiff single rate spring with a built in helper spring to keep it from falling out during full extension of the suspension. this means that it is a really stiff spring. this really shouldn’t be marketed as a comfortable street spring. my buddy’s rs4 on coilovers rides like it has no suspension at all but he thinks it’s comfortable. everyone’s sense of comfort is different. i think u need a softer spring.

 

[GT 550]

my buddy’s rs4 on coilovers rides like it has no suspension at all but he thinks it’s comfortable

As do most folks when they've overcooked their suspension

Sorry not saying this is your buddy, but it happens. Then you realise their smile looks different because their teeth have fallen out...but Saul Goodman riding on race suspenders.

 

[thornclaw]

As do most folks when they've overcooked their suspension

Sorry not saying this is your buddy, but it happens. Then you realise their smile looks different because their teeth have fallen out...but Saul Goodman riding on race suspenders.

actually, this is my buddy exactly

 

[Bluemustang]

Are you on full coil overs? That would make a difference too.

Yes. The Ohlins are dampers are in another stratosphere. Not comparable to Ford or the other stock-style damper.

 

[Bluemustang]

Wow, a lot of wrong here. First of all, mixing parts with different brands has NOTHING to do with the issue here. Companies make it seem like you have to buy everything from them or else the system won't work well anymore. Horse hockey! I have suspension/chassis parts from multiple brands (BMR/Steeda/J&M/Ohlins) and everything works as it should do.

Secondly, the OP went from completely stock to modifying the entire suspension/chassis. Modifying the bushings and control arms and so forth will lead to more NVH. That's just a reality. But, that's not leading to the big problem here.

The largest culprit is very likely the Steeda DR springs. Firstly, these springs are significantly uprated in spring rate and the stock Magneride controller is not tuned for that. That's problem #1. It's not tuned/capable to properly damp those springs. Problem #2 is the dual-rate and the very stiff rear spring. The spring is going in and out of low and high rate portions of the spring, which makes it even more difficult to properly damp. A linear spring is much easier to damp because the spring rate is constant throughout its travel. It sounds like the Magneride dampers as currently configured, do not even have a chance of handling it.

As @TeeLew said, you do not need a 1200# rear spring. That's just way too high for the street.

In terms of ride quality, the rear has a MUCH bigger ride penalty from stiffer springs than the front does. It's not even close. The dampers aren't tuned for it, the dual-rate makes it even more difficult to damp properly and the rear spring is just too stiff. That's why your back is getting put through the wringer.

 

[DadzMach]

did you get or do an alignment?

interesting thing about the bump steer kit: I don’t have and never considered needing it. Take it off.

edit: if you added front camber or toe-out, it’s gonna make the car feedback mouthy.

I also had the bump steer kit but decided not to use it. I have the same setup as the OP and think the car rides great. Change the Magnaride controller to the Steeda one and it gets even better.

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