GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

LOL, Trax... I was banned there for my foretelling of the ZL1's weight, the coming of a killer Mustang that ended up being the 5.8 GT500 and, I was accused of having an agenda. My agenda was to inform them that a GT500 was coming and that it did indeed run a 7:30-7:40. They also didn't like mentioning a refresh 2 years before it happened OR, that sales would eventually fall to the levels they are at right now. I was banned for being outspokenly correct in most of my hunches. They thought a 600hp Mustang was impossible.


@02GT,

I agree, that's why I suggest we just use real results from another source. Every video Ford has released has been debated and questioned, the 2011 VIR run, the Ring run, all of the track times pOsted were Disputed for something. I probably wouldn't put too much effort into that advertising method to begin with. That's what Chevy does and very few actual owners can duplicate their bullish!t times.

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[thePill]

Reports are circulating that the 15 GTPP is between 2.6 and 4 seconds faster than their previous Boss 302. Appearently, these guys are Semi-Pro and baselined both cars at the same track but a year apart.

 

[FATTBoss]

Eh, I will wait until one shows up here with a good driver and I'll go out and see if I can chase him down.

One of our instructors had a '13 Boss that he traded in for a '15 PP GT. I was always faster than him in the Boss v Boss on track, so if now it gets hard to catch him, or I can't catch him, I will report back.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

This is the post that states the time differences. Cars driven back to back by the same driver.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13464

 

[Grimace427]

Reports are circulating that the 15 GTPP is between 2.6 and 4 seconds faster than their previous Boss 302. Appearently, these guys are Semi-Pro and baselined both cars at the same track but a year apart.

This is the post that states the time differences. Cars driven back to back by the same driver.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13464

By Terry Fair from Vorshlag, a very accomplished auto-x racer and corner carver. The wide margin they mentioned makes me think they were guesstimating but it'll be an interesting read regardless.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

By Terry Fair from Vorshlag, a very accomplished auto-x racer and corner carver. The wide margin they mentioned makes me think they were guesstimating but it'll be an interesting read regardless.

The way I interpreted his post was that range he mentioned was for both of them. I assumed a Terry was the better driver and would be in the 4 second range. We all know what happens when one assumes :cheers:

 

[thePill]

I'm gonna assume the 4 seconds was done by the more inexperienced driver. I believe the 2 and a half second march to be Terrys'.

Regardless, 2.5 seconds is a WONDERFUL gap considering that the GT is a volume seller and not a specialty car, limited in production. You will likely see others observe the same gains. The gains we are starting to see has the GT encroaching on 1LE territory as far as lap times go. This will make the magazine results begin to confuse some. When a magazine says the 1LE should be 1.5 seconds faster however, in real life, the GTPP can hold its own quite well. Of course there will be bellyaching...

Good work Ford, this could put a GTPP at 1:38 at Laguna.... That is fast for under $40,000.

I doubt Chevy will be able to match 1LE performance in the 6th Gen and keep under $40,000. In fact, I don't see 1LE performance being sold for under $45,000 next Gen. Highly unlikely it will match its weight though... On some tracks, the FE4 SS was over 6 seconds slower than the 1LE. That's a lot to accomplish only asking $45k and, selling hopes of a sub-3900lbs Camaro.

 

[traxiii]

Looking forward to some actual times and video!

 

[thePill]

I don't think there will be video and lap times, I haven't looked or really care to. The GT was about 50-70lbs heavier than a Boss 302 and was lacking tire too. I'm not sure why they opted for the Performance Pack but, it shows us how heavy one is. It's about 70lbs heavier or, 20lbs heavier than last years GT Performance package weight. The heaviest PP GT I seen tests was a 2011 Brembo GT by Car and Driver. It weighed 3670lbs...

2.5 seconds faster than the outgoing performance model is aggressive.

Where is Chevy's answer to competition? There sure is a lot of trash talk for not making an effort to compete with those you were trash talking. They sure the hell won't get a pass from me and I'm pleased many, many a-reader has visited this thread and got up to speed on this topic. I find more and more people are educated in this area and far less people are being taken advantage of.

Back in 1999, the Cobra R was about as hardcore street vehicle you could buy. I think I remember a $52,000 MSRP but, I could be wrong. That was a lot of money, especially in 1999. What made the car special? Other than it looking badass... Ford went to great lengths to ensure the Cobra was sanctioned in the SCCA for class racing. At the time, only customers with an SCCA R license could purchase a Cobra R. The '99 was the first Cobra R you could buy without one...the Cobra R was a celebratory model to some extent too. Regardless, Ford did a solid for road racing enthusiast... a huge solid...

After that, it wasn't difficult to buy a stripped down, competition model when a manufacturer offered one. 100% competition ready...

Now, 15 years after a real competition Mustang was made, along comes the Vulture that is Chevy to impersonate a Championship winning, race car from its past. I cannot believe that actual customers bought the car AND bought it knowing you couldn't do much of anything with it. They called themselves "drivers"...

 

[NDSP]

Video of lap times with Terry's commentary is in the Dusold Design's build thread. For those that might be interested.

 

[Carguy68]

[ame]

 

[traxiii]

Damn Mini's kept getting in the way of a clear lap. Sounds like it would be quite a bit quicker with the 3.31 gears and not short (driving someone else's car) shifting, wonder how much? I'd love to see a stock Boss 302 LS and GTPP go back to back at Laguna Seca or VIR, throw in a GT500 too.

 

[thePill]

Well this is all wrong... According to the moron that runs GM into the ground, the GT is not faster than the previous GT. Regardless of what actual owners are discovering, they obviously know better than them. Even Motor Trend had the GT faster than a Boss but, oh well, such are "facts" at GM.

Here's some facts, Chevrolet has just announced a 20% reduction in MSRP on the z28. Some are as low as $60,000. What a bunch of shit... I don't even think it's worth that... I feel for those that paided $80,000 last week only to have it crammed up their ass this week... MERRY CHRISTMAS!

They made some attempt to save face, I mean with sales at 4000 a month... I guess a 20% reduction on z28 and zl1s isn't panicking right? The 6th Gen won't be in Detroit, likely won't be a 2015/16...

They never actually claim the Camaro will be lighter, they just attempt to bring the rather quick selling S550 into a bad light. Sales, are beginning to tumble and they have a looooooong way to go. Even if they did actually say it WAS lighter, I would file that BS along with the failed simulations, 11s all day, we ran a 7:31, it's a race car... Whatever, and when a 4000lbs V8 6th Gen is presented, no one will probably care enough to comment.

Edit: What the video says to me is that the whole GT package and, most likely the entire Mustang, has been elevated performance wise. The GT is faster than the outgoing Boss... There is a lot of trash these guys will pull out of the Mustang. I'm almost certain the structure is lighter than the S197s, considering the new standard equipment weight w/ IRS. I feel the Mustang will be a far better option going forward from here.

My concern wasnt with road course performance, it was with its ability to still hook in a straight line as well. The very first videos set my mind at ease.

 

[Backorder]

I guess Mark Reuss is saying the camaro will NOT be heavier according to MT

http://blogs.motortrend.com/1412_gm...ns_and_the_next_gen_camaro.html#ixzz3KwufH8OD

Sorry if a repost. Just trying to contribute to the convo. I personally don't like chevy either way lol

EDIT: Pill, is there an article you can reference of the Z28 price drop? I don't see it with a quick google search and minimal looking on the GM site. Not doubting you, just want to know where that info is. To me, if true, shows a bit of desperation...like they are caving to the rumors of the 350 being just above 50k. Either that or it's desperation fire sale to beat mustang sales, though they should have expected that...new model and all of course it's gonna sell well, just like when the new camaro comes out I'm sure sales will jump high for them for a while too.
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[traxiii]

It's funny thePill, all the talk from Ford early on was a 200 lbs. weight reduction, they just didn't specify until after the release that it was the body/structure lost the 200 lbs. not the entire car. The extra mandated safety features, options made standard and IRS brought the curb weight up to the +60 lbs. or so over the S197. All of that and the 2015 structure is what 30% more rigid than the S197. Not bad, all of the new materials and engineering is really showing out on the track!

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