GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

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[Norm Peterson]

If the Z/28 accomplishes little or no more than influencing Ford to produce a hardcore track day trim for "10% of the 2%" (pill - maybe you've seen that somewhere before ), that alone would justify the Z/28's existence. For anybody who must have the whole slate of GT/GT500/1LE/ZL1 features, perhaps you should shop from that list instead.


Norm

 

[thePill]

If the Z/28 accomplishes little or no more than influencing Ford to produce a hardcore track day trim for "10% of the 2%" (pill - maybe you've seen that somewhere before ), that alone would justify the Z/28's existence. For anybody who must have the whole slate of GT/GT500/1LE/ZL1 features, perhaps you should shop from that list instead.


Norm

I am trying to acquire exclusive GT350 info for future threads... However, I may have to post it elsewhere first before I push it here. These two forums in question have a distinctly different fanbase or I would publish the info on both sites, at the same time. There are places I can go on the other site that I would never ask the cleaner, more civil members here to endure... the language let alone the content of some responses... I would never publish a heat sink thread such as a "Vs." in TMS either because, I don't believe their members deserve that type of aggression nor are they drawn to it. They are primarily there to learn about the car they own and collectively lend/gain support for projects and such. While sites like TMS pioneered the "Photoshop" thread for the new car (and responsible for a majority of the new cars allure), it is a site dedicated to actual information. Like the Smithsonian... for the Ford Mustang... and a thread like this will likely draw so heat

M6G brought the new car to life and will probably evolve into the central hub for S550 info. However, M6G could beat most to the punch with spy shots, engine info and other goodies... might have to be reactive with the slicksters at M6G and the "right place, right time" luck of the draw ;)

Either way, the information will be provided as soon as possible, hopefully in both flavors... M6G and SVTP


As for the GT350's content, most of that has already been decided on. I'm sure more testing will come in the Spring. Ford has an opportunity to get some engineering done in Pro-Racing via Roush starting January. One thing is for sure, the z28 should be a warning to Ford that the GT350 should be the best choice for entry level competition. NO ILLEGAL EQUIPMENT. If Ford wants special equipment, then make that special equipment an option OR model upgrade. I can't say I am anticipating a Boss 302, Boss 302LS, Boss 302S and Boss 302R lineup in the GT350.

More than likely (as some Boss 302R's are doing with the 302R1), there could be a GT350 (OEM) and GT350R (Turnkey) and every class car would be built to Spec (replaces the Boss 302S (Spec) and 302R).

Of course, everyone will want a stripped down "Laguna Seca'd" GT350 and then you will have the z28er's that need CC brakes, Formula 1 struts (or MRC), 305 R comp tires and a dozen liters...

If the base GT350 is light years ahead of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, does it really need a stripped down OEM "R" version? With the GT350 heritage and the money Ford is dumping into Motorsport to challenge Porsche and BMW, does it really need an OEM "Carbon" version with illegal equipment?

I know Ford is dumping some $$$ into Motorsport right now... and both Roush and Multimatic are busy.

 

[Dyno]

Pill, first things first, you will have to change the title of your image to 2016 GT350. We are not going to see it for model year 2015. I think you can take that to the bank.

Your posts are very cryptic. I don't see why any legitimate info, exclusive or otherwise would be more appropriate for one fanbase or another. Any "info" that better serves a place with more shit talking and trolling is not worth sharing or discussing IMO.

Your Assault thread was pretty condemning against the Z/28 (even if unfairly so in some respects IMO), but that seemed to work just fine for the folks at M6G. If you're looking for blind hate and blind mudslinging against Chevy with no pushback from other members, from what I've seen of the level headed members here, probably isn't gonna happen. And I prefer it that way. It makes for far better and more informative discussions.

 

[StangFX]

This is already the central hub. Far as I'm concerned there is no reason to go elsewhere for S550 info.

We have already seen and heard a bunch of info about the GT350 and much earlier than I think many of us expected. This could even be a 2017 offering who knows. There's been so many possibilities thrown out there as far as engines and power possibilities that one of them is bound to be close to accurate. I mean when is the last time any one car was speculated to have either a cross plane or flat plane crank engine, much less a Mustang?

 

[C00KIE M0NSTER]

I've been following scoops on the S550 for over a year now. I've seen "thePill's" posts many times on different message boards. I've come to the conclusion he is full of a certain four letter word. He always alludes to knowing inside information, but never offers anything specific. His predictions have not come true. I wouldn't take anything he says or posts too seriously.

 

[Ponywars]

Reserving judgement until I see this supposed info.

One thing I will agree on is leave the CC brakes we saw in the spy pics as an option. Those were some wicked looking brakes/rubber thou.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Either way, the information will be provided as soon as possible, hopefully in both flavors... M6G and SVTP

Honestly, don't waste the time rewriting anything you manage to uncover just to suit the tone of a rowdier forum. Copy. Paste. Done. Any interest you wouldn't attract there by what you'd write for here probably isn't worth attracting in the first place.


Norm

 

[bullets]

This thread is about a year premature. Also, the Z/28 was going after the now defunct Boss 302, stupid as that strategy was. I'm sure they will have a response after the GT350 reclaims the lead but it won't be next year.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Of course, everyone will want a stripped down "Laguna Seca'd" GT350 and then you will have the z28er's that need CC brakes, Formula 1 struts (or MRC), 305 R comp tires and a dozen liters...

Nothing wrong with offering better dampers, particularly adjustable ones. Plenty of enthusiasts run Koni Sports or coilovers even on daily driven cars as it is (memo to self, dial the Konis back from last Saturday's track day), and there's rarely anything wrong with more tire if you are going to drive the thing hard at all. Even autocrossers run 315's on early S197s.

But I wouldn't be in too big a hurry for $$$$ CC brakes just yet, particularly on a car that I might be frequently swapping wheels or at least tires on (even if that was only back and forth between wets and drys at a track day or TT).
http://www.autocarepro.com/Article/120894/prevent_ceramic_brake_damage_with_new_rotary_lift_mobile_wheel_lift.aspx

If the base GT350 is light years ahead of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, does it really need a stripped down OEM "R" version? With the GT350 heritage and the money Ford is dumping into Motorsport to challenge Porsche and BMW, does it really need an OEM "Carbon" version with illegal equipment?

Let's separate the concepts of "stripped down OEM R version" from "illegal equipment", m'kay? It is not necessary to assume that Ford will follow the Z/28's lead in full lock-step. The GT350 heritage is not associated with comfort and convenience, certainly not if you go back to its 1965 origins with no rear seat, and it'd be a pretty weak-sauce move to water down the very image that you'd be trying to imply was your direct heritage.

There still is room for at least a few cars that are heavy on the performance stuff and light on amenities. Arguably it is more important for Ford to go off in this direction, given that there is no Corvette to separately cover the top performance level or compete with internally.


Norm

 

[thePill]

I've been following scoops on the S550 for over a year now. I've seen "thePill's" posts many times on different message boards. I've come to the conclusion he is full of a certain four letter word. He always alludes to knowing inside information, but never offers anything specific. His predictions have not come true. I wouldn't take anything he says or posts too seriously.

Oh really???

Who brought you the '13 GT500's Ring time 2 years before it was slipped?

Who "guessed" the ZL1's curb weight when C5's brightest was predicting a 3900lb entry?

Who got Motor Trend and Hot Rod to ask Al O. about the z28's legality in Motorsport?

Who warned of the '13 GT500 waaaaaaaaay back in November 2010?

Who warned of the 2014 Camaro refresh even when all said otherwise?

Who had a 2013 z28 concept out a week after he heard about the 3rd z28 attempt this generation?

Most of this was years in advanced...

Sure, all S550 info was incorrect... so was everybody else, including the major media outlets. There is still a lot of mis-information.

Currently, I have been 5 times more accurate than any of Team Camaro's "press releases, statements and simulations". There has been little or no truth out of that camp since 2006.

Pill, first things first, you will have to change the title of your image to 2016 GT350. We are not going to see it for model year 2015. I think you can take that to the bank.

Your posts are very cryptic. I don't see why any legitimate info, exclusive or otherwise would be more appropriate for one fanbase or another. Any "info" that better serves a place with more shit talking and trolling is not worth sharing or discussing IMO.

Your Assault thread was pretty condemning against the Z/28 (even if unfairly so in some respects IMO), but that seemed to work just fine for the folks at M6G. If you're looking for blind hate and blind mudslinging against Chevy with no pushback from other members, from what I've seen of the level headed members here, probably isn't gonna happen. And I prefer it that way. It makes for far better and more informative discussions.

2016? No, I would rather pressure Ford into a 50th Anniversary 2015 GT350 for this season... The cars development is literally right behind the Base and GT. If the Base/GT is ready for the 5th of December then the GT350 will follow shortly after.

Remember, as stated by others... The info I post is NOT legitimate, true, accurate or acquired from anybody at FoMoCo. Everything thePill post is for entertainment purposes ONLY. As far as filtering out some of the fire for this sites members, why not... The GT350 is stuck in a unique position (like the GT500), it is both Mustang AND SVT product. The pictures could come from one source and the info from another... One site will have kickers and screamers and the other has the "good to know" people... One site I can just say F___ __F!!! the other I have to say "To Be Continued..."

I apologize if you feel my view on the z28 was too harsh (apologies not needed on SVTP). I understand my approach is more rubbing their nose in it than trying to help... Well, this is why we will have two thePill's In my opinion, we need thePill on every major forum... but that's my opinion. This site is awesome, and had 99% of the correct information and I don't want to disrupt that with hearsay because, that is all this really is. My information on the z28 will stand and I hold Ford to the same hot knife. Don't make a z28 Ford...

This thread is about a year premature. Also, the Z/28 was going after the now defunct Boss 302, stupid as that strategy was. I'm sure they will have a response after the GT350 reclaims the lead but it won't be next year.

The z28 starts production in April/May... The GT350 could be reverse engineered this season by Multimatic. Remember the announcement of Multimatic coming back to Ford for the 2014 season? They raced the Aston last season and did well... What could Ford possibly have for Multimatic to use in GS??? Hmmm..... Hmmmm...

Wait... Wasn't Multimatic the team that reverse engineered the 2012 Boss 302 in the 2010 Grand Am season??? Yep... It sure was... I started a GT500 vs. ZL1 thread about 8 months before the first test and it was a lot of fun... and it turned out in the GT500's favor so... why not.

Honestly, don't waste the time rewriting anything you manage to uncover just to suit the tone of a rowdier forum. Copy. Paste. Done. Any interest you wouldn't attract there by what you'd write for here probably isn't worth attracting in the first place.

I can do both... and I'm sure nobody minds on this side of the tracks... The Camaro fans probably don't want z28 info on Mustang forums, especially the way I serve it up. You will still have all the smart a$$ remarks and smirks but just less a$$ and more smart...

 

[JohnZiraldo]

There is an interesting article just posted on The Truth About Cars here:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e/#more-662850

Quote from TTAC:
I’m pleased to announce a partnership with the great people at SVT Performance. About once a month, we’ll be bringing you some of their best Ford-related content. We’re reaching out to other brand-specific blogs as well, hoping to bring the Best&Brightest the cream at the top of the brand-forum scene. Our debut piece includes a detailed dissection of Burgerkingring times and a great, thoroughly informative statement from SVT’s Jamaal Hamedi! — JB

Here is the referenced Jamaal comment
Ring times! Oh man don’t even get me started on this topic. Our (my) view is that there is no such thing as an official manufacturer Ring time. The times being posted by many manufacturers are in my humble opinion akin to qualifying times being set at a race with no pre/post inspection (ie it would never happen). In the racing world – inspection/verification is a key part of the sport. In order for us to set an “official” time corner weights would have to be taken, calibration checksums need to be verified, engine power verified via chassis rolls, a hoist inspection, and probably a fuel sample taken by an independent 3rd party like a governing/sanctioning body. I would love to see this since everyone seems to be infatuated with Ring times. Having said that, I think it’s really important that performance cars be judged against one another on the track – but the comparisons really need to be on the same day by a professional driver (just track condition from day to day puts another huge variable in comparisons). We have seen lap time spreads of over 3 sec with same car same driver different day at VIR. Now extrapolate that to a track with a 7 min lap time. Motor Trend collects cars on the same day and puts a professional driver behind the wheel – not journalists whose driving ability puts yet another huge variable in lap times – and compares vehicles same driver same day. I think they do it correctly. So does Auto Motor und Sport in Germany. The reason we test at the Ring is because it is a fantastic venue for doing vehicle dynamics work. You get so much different content in terms of turns, elevation, etc that you would need to visit 5 different tracks to duplicate it. It’s also a chance for our North American vehicle dynamics guys to cross pollinate with our Team RS guys since we are all one group now. Team RS gets a chance to offer feedback on the RWD cars and the SVT guys offer perspective on the FWD cars. That’s really powerful and worth spending the money to send cars and engineers over there. Renting the Ring exclusively ($$$$$!) to make a video – not so much. I’d rather put that money into the car.

I know this isn’t what the internet bench racers want to hear. As soon as there is a standard for measuring lap times – our performance vehicles will be the first in line to get tested. Until then – it’s just marketing and a total free for all. They are very cool to watch though. Lol. The 2013/2014 GT500 sold just fine without a published Ring time (who could have imagined!). Actually we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make more GT500s due to high demand. I’ve seen other performance cars with published Ring times being offered with incentives and cash on the hood (again – who could have imagined!). So I sleep pretty well at night. And spend my days (and nights) working on the next slayer vs. worrying about Ring times.

 

[crazyfastfreddy]

its all entertainment until we hear from Ford. i enjoy reading this stuff so keep up the work man. no apologies needed.... nothing wrong with a little chevy assault on a mustang site ;)

 

[thePill]

There is an interesting article just posted on The Truth About Cars here:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e/#more-662850

Quote from TTAC:
I’m pleased to announce a partnership with the great people at SVT Performance. About once a month, we’ll be bringing you some of their best Ford-related content. We’re reaching out to other brand-specific blogs as well, hoping to bring the Best&Brightest the cream at the top of the brand-forum scene. Our debut piece includes a detailed dissection of Burgerkingring times and a great, thoroughly informative statement from SVT’s Jamaal Hamedi! — JB

Here is the referenced Jamaal comment
Ring times! Oh man don’t even get me started on this topic. Our (my) view is that there is no such thing as an official manufacturer Ring time. The times being posted by many manufacturers are in my humble opinion akin to qualifying times being set at a race with no pre/post inspection (ie it would never happen). In the racing world – inspection/verification is a key part of the sport. In order for us to set an “official” time corner weights would have to be taken, calibration checksums need to be verified, engine power verified via chassis rolls, a hoist inspection, and probably a fuel sample taken by an independent 3rd party like a governing/sanctioning body. I would love to see this since everyone seems to be infatuated with Ring times. Having said that, I think it’s really important that performance cars be judged against one another on the track – but the comparisons really need to be on the same day by a professional driver (just track condition from day to day puts another huge variable in comparisons). We have seen lap time spreads of over 3 sec with same car same driver different day at VIR. Now extrapolate that to a track with a 7 min lap time. Motor Trend collects cars on the same day and puts a professional driver behind the wheel – not journalists whose driving ability puts yet another huge variable in lap times – and compares vehicles same driver same day. I think they do it correctly. So does Auto Motor und Sport in Germany. The reason we test at the Ring is because it is a fantastic venue for doing vehicle dynamics work. You get so much different content in terms of turns, elevation, etc that you would need to visit 5 different tracks to duplicate it. It’s also a chance for our North American vehicle dynamics guys to cross pollinate with our Team RS guys since we are all one group now. Team RS gets a chance to offer feedback on the RWD cars and the SVT guys offer perspective on the FWD cars. That’s really powerful and worth spending the money to send cars and engineers over there. Renting the Ring exclusively ($$$$$!) to make a video – not so much. I’d rather put that money into the car.

I know this isn’t what the internet bench racers want to hear. As soon as there is a standard for measuring lap times – our performance vehicles will be the first in line to get tested. Until then – it’s just marketing and a total free for all. They are very cool to watch though. Lol. The 2013/2014 GT500 sold just fine without a published Ring time (who could have imagined!). Actually we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make more GT500s due to high demand. I’ve seen other performance cars with published Ring times being offered with incentives and cash on the hood (again – who could have imagined!). So I sleep pretty well at night. And spend my days (and nights) working on the next slayer vs. worrying about Ring times.

LOL, John... How did I know you would find...

Yeah, SVTP will probably be acquiring some pretty deep info on the GT350 and GT500 first. Hence, why I posted what I did... However, a Mustang is a Mustang and info will be posted over a large scale... I just prefer not subject M6G members to that type of talk voluntarily.

 

[thePill]

Good lord.. Disregard that crap.

I need some Sunday coffee. I can't edit right now either...

What I ment to say was...

LOL, John... How did I know you would find that...

Yeah, SVTP will probably be acquiring some pretty deep info on the GT350 and GT500 first. Hence, why I posted what I did... However, a Mustang is a Mustang and info will be posted over a large scale... I just prefer not to subject M6G members to that type of talk involuntarily.

It seems that Ford and SVT are pretty upset over the perversions of Lap times by Team Camaro. I honestly have never seen backlash from another manufacture like this except between Porsche and Nissan. It appears they are waving the BS flag now...

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