EV's.......... 😂😂😂😂😂

[Freedom]

The road does. The infra does.

That $7500 is theft. People can't afford the 40k outlay. Nobody chooses an EV because a set of $60 brake pads last longer. Neither saving $25 on oil changes which is what at most 2x a year?

Just because your state is run by the biggest fools on the planet that necessitates eye watering gasoline prices doesn't advance the economic argument for ev for anyone else. It should mean you torch Sacramento with all your politicians locked in the state house.

EV is a suburban runabout for those who live in single family homes or townhouse with garage. It has no other economically sound use case. QED range over a reasonable base is immaterial.

150ish miles keeps the weight down and reduces the frequency of charge down to every 3 days or so. Mandatory nightly charge would be annoying to say theeast and also imply little flexibility to deviate from the norm.

The stated goal of Elon is ev to replace ice. And yet he keeps trying to sell expensive cars and Ford et. Al are also trying to sell gold plated ev to rich people instead of buildingthe provobial model T.

I'm well.aware even the sorriest ev can suck the paint off any Mustang trim. I do not value that feature.

The road does. The infra does.

That $7500 is theft. People can't afford the 40k outlay. Nobody chooses an EV because a set of $60 brake pads last longer. Neither saving $25 on oil changes which is what at most 2x a year?

Just because your state is run by the biggest fools on the planet that necessitates eye watering gasoline prices doesn't advance the economic argument for ev for anyone else. It should mean you torch Sacramento with all your politicians locked in the state house.

EV is a suburban runabout for those who live in single family homes or townhouse with garage. It has no other economically sound use case. QED range over a reasonable base is immaterial.

150ish miles keeps the weight down and reduces the frequency of charge down to every 3 days or so. Mandatory nightly charge would be annoying to say theeast and also imply little flexibility to deviate from the norm.

The stated goal of Elon is ev to replace ice. And yet he keeps trying to sell expensive cars and Ford et. Al are also trying to sell gold plated ev to rich people instead of buildingthe provobial model T.

I'm well.aware even the sorriest ev can suck the paint off any Mustang trim. I do not value that feature.

Kelly book showed than the average car purchase price for non luxury is $44,700. So affordability is moot. Not arguing that maybe people shouldn’t be buying cars out of their price point. As for the $7500, it’s being offered by the feds you take it or you waste it. Everyone’s tax dollars is in it. Also you should know California even as a shit hole it is, contributes a lot more money to the federal govt than it receives unlike many of our smaller states.
As for the main thing gas. Your state for example has 87 octane gas for $3.12. A typical sedan is probably getting 30 miles per gallon. A model 3 does about 3.5 miles per KWhr. Cost of electricity can range from 4c to 13c for MOST people. Let’s go with 13c. That’s about $1.11 for 30 miles instead of $3.12.
im a little confused on your statement wanting a lower range EV and talking about charging nightly. More range means you charge less so you want a good balance. My long range model 3 takes a maximum of 6 hours from 0-100%. We charge it about once a week.
As for the brake cost and oil change, I’ll concede it doesn’t cost too much but it is less maintenances compared to a gasoline vehicle regardless.
And the weight thing, maybe we should be banning all trucks and heavy SUVs while you’re at it. I don’t disagree with you on this but there are bigger targets than basic EVs like those monstrous HUMMER EV. What an abomination.

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[sk47]

the average car purchase price for non luxury is $44,700.

Hello; Average being the operating term here. New ICE can be had for less. With a GT, a Tesla, and a 150 lighting you likely can afford above average. Lots of people have to buy lower cost vehicles.

 

[shogun32]

Do you happen to know how much the motors, controller and battery pack of your 3 weighs?

 

[Freedom]

Hello; Average being the operating term here. New ICE can be had for less. With a GT, a Tesla, and a 150 lighting you likely can afford above average. Lots of people have to buy lower cost vehicles.

Average non luxury brands was the keyword. Including luxury which Tesla is considered is $63,552. Remember that $7500 rebate still applies on many EVs. So that $40K goes down a lot.

Do you happen to know how much the motors, controller and battery pack of your 3 weighs?

The long range battery pack on a model 3 weighs 1060 pounds. The whole rear unit for the model 3 motor is 196 pounds. I don’t have the front unit weight so assume 90-200. I googled the 2.3 EcoBoost. The engine itself is 416 pounds and the 10r80 231 pounds.

 

[Balr14]

I doubt I'll ever buy an EV, just because I'm 80 years old

Average non luxury brands was the keyword. Including luxury which Tesla is considered is $63,552. Remember that $7500 rebate still applies on many EVs. So that $40K goes down a lot.

The long range battery pack on a model 3 weighs 1060 pounds. The whole rear unit for the model 3 motor is 196 pounds. I don’t have the front unit weight so assume 90-200. I googled the 2.3 EcoBoost. The engine itself is 416 pounds and the 10r80 231 pounds.

The Tesla Model 3 weight range is comparable to a Mustang with a tank of gas... 3800 - 4100.

 

[sk47]

The Tesla Model 3 weight range is comparable to a Mustang with a tank of gas... 3800 - 4100.

Hello; A late model Mustang is not a small car so perhaps not the best comparison. I have seen Tesla's on the road and they seem smaller. But this is not the real issue. Best as i can find out the battery packs are not as energy dense as gasoline or diesel. Put another way, in order to force in enough charge/energy the battery pack has to be large and therefor heavy. To get more range or power the current solution is to install a bigger & heavier battery pack.

Whatever the vehicle type from compact car to large truck the EV version will be significantly heavier because of the batteries. Replace all or a large portion of the vehicle fleets with EV's and the result will be more wear and tear on the roads and other such infrastructure. Same for tires, suspension parts and all. My guess is the base suspension has to be built up heavier on an ICE.

There is another aspect to the EV's extra weight. That being the energy used to move that additional battery weight around. I have a small car and a pickup truck. The small car gets better MPG mainly because it weighs much less. That is a physics part of the deal. If an average EV is a good deal heavier than the ICE it replaces then more energy will be used to move that weight around.
The plan seems to be to do away with all ICE and replace them with BEV. By definition that means huge amounts of extra weight to move about. This extra weight will require extra energy.

Let me try to say it another way. To the mass/weight being moved it makes no difference what the type of energy may be. Say an ICE weighs 3000 pounds. Say an equivalent BEV weighs 4000 pounds. The extra 1000 pounds of mass/weight of the EV will require energy above the amount used by the ICE.
(NOTE- I get the battery may not add an extra 1000 pounds by itself. Some of the extra weight will come from the beefier suspension. I used to do work on 1/2 ton to one ton trucks. Big difference in the weight of suspension parts.)
We will not only have to replace the energy being used by current ICE vehicles but will have to come up with even more energy to move the heavy batteries about. This is where I could throw in questions about the grid being able to supply the needed energy and will if needed.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hello; A late model Mustang is not a small car so perhaps not the best comparison. I have seen Tesla's on the road and they seem smaller.

An S550 is 1.6% longer than the smallest Tesla (Model 3) which is less than a human could detect for objects with identical proportions unless butted against each other. The Mustang is a couple inches longer and wider. The Tesla is an inch or two taller.

A Model 3 might appear significantly smaller because there is MUCH less front and rear overhang than the Mustang. The Tesla has a much longer wheelbase. Tesla wheelbase is more than 9" longer than an S550.

 

[GT_MTL]

Another thing to consider is that the increased weight and high torque of EV compared to same category ICE car will cost more in tires and suspensions (which costs waaaaay more than pads/oil change).
Also, I've read somewhere an interesting paper where they explained why it isn't profitable for Cars Manufacturers to build small and cheap EV (basically, the fixed cost is too high). That's a shame because this is actually what people would buy... a small cheap EV to do grocerys , school, and all that kind of stuff. Much better than destroying ICE engine with traffic jams and small commutes.
For the rest, well, it's like watches : You can have a 10$ battery watch that is very accurate with tons of features or a more expensive complex mechanical watch, less accurate, that needs revisions, and just gives time. But hey, which one is cooler ?

 

[sk47]

An S550 is 1.6% longer than the smallest Tesla (Model 3) which is less than a human could detect for objects with identical proportions unless butted against each other. The Mustang is a couple inches longer and wider. The Tesla is an inch or two taller.

A Model 3 might appear significantly smaller because there is MUCH less front and rear overhang than the Mustang. The Tesla has a much longer wheelbase. Tesla wheelbase is more than 9" longer than an S550.

Hello; Thanks for the info. I have not seen them side by side. A flawed perception on my part.

 

[sk47]

That's a shame because this is actually what people would buy... a small cheap EV to do grocerys , school, and all that kind of stuff.

Hello; You hit at least one nail on the head. I most often make a round trip to local stores of around 20 miles. This will comprise around 80% of my driving.
From to time I drive to Knoxville, TN about 60 miles away or to Lexington KY about 90-100 miles away. With the running around I can rack up 300 + miles to Lexington and back. I will need a pickup for my fishing boat and home repairs.
I could use a small cheap EV for local stuff.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

Just another reason for not wanting a BEV.

 

[Balr14]

Hello; You hit at least one nail on the head. I most often make a round trip to local stores of around 20 miles. This will comprise around 80% of my driving.
From to time I drive to Knoxville, TN about 60 miles away or to Lexington KY about 90-100 miles away. With the running around I can rack up 300 + miles to Lexington and back. I will need a pickup for my fishing boat and home repairs.
I could use a small cheap EV for local stuff.

One of the Chinese automakers has a high-end luxury EV that has impressive range and sells for around $30K. Their smaller EVs are considerably cheaper. Elon Musk thinks Tesla and 9 Chinese car builders will be the top 10 in 10 years.

 

[sk47]

Just another reason for not wanting a BEV.

Hello; I have already decided no EV will be in the garage attached to my house.

 

[sk47]

One of the Chinese automakers has a high-end luxury EV that has impressive range and sells for around $30K. Their smaller EVs are considerably cheaper. Elon Musk thinks Tesla and 9 Chinese car builders will be the top 10 in 10 years.

Hello; Afraid this still misses the point. Any current EV will be of limited use for most of us who live outside a densely populated urban center. $30 K is still more than a fully useful ICE can be had for.
I am thinking of a basic type of vehicle to run errands with. Something nicer than a golf cart and legal on the highway. I have a stretch of 55 mph highway for about a mile so need 60 to 65 mph capable. The rest of the errand roads are 45 mph limit so can keep up with traffic at 50 mph.

Hello; Another member has often posted of how things will be better in 10 years. Makes little difference now. Perhaps as stock to buy if you are so confident.

 

[sk47]

Europe's carmakers secure just 16% of critical metals for EV batteries (msn.com)
Hello; A reality check perhaps?

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