E85 Conversion

[mustang_guy]

Why wouldnt you?

Its not exactly the greatest for the pump. I prefer a full return system if going to 18-20+ is needed to get enough fuel. Long term its horrible for the pump. Shortens the life a lot. Granted I always run a fuel pressure gauge in the car, but having it shoot craps because of running more voltage then it was designed for seems too risky when motors are already expensive enough. Id rather spend 1500ish for a fuel sytem instead of lots more for a motor. Im not saying im shunning baps or think they don't work, they work well. I just wont take those kinds of risks. I have too much wrapped up in my builds usually. Either way, motors are expensive. I learned my lesson running baps, quite a few years ago.

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[Process]

Its not exactly the greatest for the pump. I prefer a full return system if going to 18-20+ is needed to get enough fuel. Long term its horrible for the pump. Shortens the life a lot. Granted I always run a fuel pressure gauge in the car, but having it shoot craps because of running more voltage then it was designed for seems too risky when motors are already expensive enough. Id rather spend 1500ish for a fuel sytem instead of lots more for a motor. Im not saying im shunning baps or think they don't work, they work well. I just wont take those kinds of risks. I have too much wrapped up in my builds usually. Either way, motors are expensive. I learned my lesson running baps, quite a few years ago.

And our data to support this for the 2015 fuel pump is where? I'm not debating the pros and cons of fuel system vs bap. What I am asking for is data or experience to back up your comment.

I'm looking for specific cases of a jms fuel max failure? Remember these baps are not running all of the time. Only when pedal position activates it.

I've been running for 5000 miles at over 22v on e85. No issues or drop in pressure.


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[mustang_guy]

And our data to support this for the 2015 fuel pump is where? I'm not debating the pros and cons of fuel system vs bap. What I am asking for is data or experience to back up your comment.

I'm looking for specific cases of a jms fuel max failure? Remember these baps are not running all of the time. Only when pedal position activates it.

I've been running for 5000 miles at over 22v on e85. No issues or drop in pressure.


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I know how they work, I lost aN 04 termi engine because of a bap. They have been around since mid 90s. Before baps people upped the voltage other ways. I lost my engine in 07. 2 years of running a bap with constant dragging was enough to lose my motor. Pump failed. I had always done return systems. I thought id try a bap, worst mistake ever. First and last bap ill ever use. You use one if you like. I personally am not interested in data about the 2015 fuel pump. Not sure why I should be. I HIGHLY doubt it was created with 18+ volts in mind. For people that beat on their cars A LOT, its not good to run one. I learned a STUPID expensive lesson.

 

[Process]

I know how they work, I lost a termi engine because of a bap. They have been around since mid 90s. Before baps people upped the voltage other ways. I lost my engine in 06. 2 years of running a bap with constant dragging was enough to lose my motor. Pump failed. I had always done return systems. I thought id try a bap, worst mistake ever. First and last bap ill ever use. You use one if you like. I personally am not interested in data about the 2015 fuel pump. Not sure why I should be. I HIGHLY doubt it was created with 18+ volts in mind. For people that beat on their cars A LOT, its not good to run one. I learned a STUPID expensive lesson.

There are more than one type of fuel voltage booster out. Sounds like you were bit by the KB BAP. The JMS fuelmax is quite different in how it handles its amplification.

My point is, your personal opinion is not fact in how these devices operate.

In fact if a BAP fails, the engine just stalls out. Only way to lose an engine with a BAP is if the fuel pump begins to lose efficiency. Sounds like you had other issues going on.

 

[mustang_guy]

There are more than one type of fuel voltage booster out. Sounds like you were bit by the KB BAP. The JMS fuelmax is quite different in how it handles its amplification.

My point is, your personal opinion is not fact in how these devices operate.

In fact if a BAP fails, the engine just stalls out. Only way to lose an engine with a BAP is if the fuel pump begins to lose efficiency. Sounds like you had other issues going on.

It was a KB bap. If there are better options now, great. I still wouldn't use one. I didn't say it was fact. Noticed how I use "I wouldn't" Not "It will" But Im sure not going to trust my motor to a 200-400 dollar device. The pump died due to excessive voltage, both the shop and tuner were in agreeance. The pump was pulled out and they did some checking of it. What that was I have no idea. I don't think assuming my car was this or that is the best way about this.

For what its worth im not the only person I know that's had a bap kill a pump and lost a motor.

*edit* We can agree to disagree!

 

[DarkSubRosa]

Damn that's some expensive fuel return systems to just run E85 on NA. I was considering the switch until I saw that. I don't want to cheap out and be unsafe but is there a SAFE cheaper alternative to the basically $2k in fuel return parts like the fore?

 

[mustang_guy]

Damn that's some expensive fuel return systems to just run E85 on NA. I was considering the switch until I saw that. I don't want to cheap out and be unsafe but is there a SAFE cheaper alternative to the basically $2k in fuel return parts like the fore?

Pm terry (beef) its cheaper then 2k if im not mistaken.

Honestly if youre staying na. A bap would suit you best. You wouldnt be running crazy volts i dont think. Not that my opinion is anything special, but i dont think its a bad choice for you. I still prefer full fuel systems though. Hopefully the jms bap Process mentioned is great.

 

[Kryckter]

Damn that's some expensive fuel return systems to just run E85 on NA. I was considering the switch until I saw that. I don't want to cheap out and be unsafe but is there a SAFE cheaper alternative to the basically $2k in fuel return parts like the fore?

Who is running E85 NA? I think everyone in this discussion is boooosted :cheers:

 

[beefcake]

we have our stage 1 systems starting at $1395 and up

we can tailor systems to fit your needs.

and this isn't the cheap stuff, fore is the best quality stuff, best customer service, and stands behind their product

Justin manufactures everything in house and quality control is unbelievable

id also add, were modding 35-48k cars here, adding 6-10k in power adders, then buck at the thought of $1400-$2200 on a quality fuel system......

fuel is the blood of the car.....the one place you def don't want to skimp

 

[dubster99]

Damn that's some expensive fuel return systems to just run E85 on NA. I was considering the switch until I saw that. I don't want to cheap out and be unsafe but is there a SAFE cheaper alternative to the basically $2k in fuel return parts like the fore?

You won't need anything if you're N/A unless it's a crazy build. Stock pump is fine for bolt ons and e85.

 

[DarkSubRosa]

Who is running E85 NA? I think everyone in this discussion is boooosted :cheers:

I think it makes more sense if boosted.

we have our stage 1 systems starting at $1395 and up

we can tailor systems to fit your needs.

and this isn't the cheap stuff, fore is the best quality stuff, best customer service, and stands behind their product

Justin manufactures everything in house and quality control is unbelievable

id also add, were modding 35-48k cars here, adding 6-10k in power adders, then buck at the thought of $1400-$2200 on a quality fuel system......

fuel is the blood of the car.....the one place you def don't want to skimp

I was strictly saying I thought spending $2k for the Fore kit wasn't worth it *if* it was only being used for NA. Not that the parts aren't worth or I'm really balking at the price, but just looking at it from the stand point of until I'm FI, I don't see it being worth switching to E85 for NA. Once you're on the FI train and can seriously turn it up to add more power the E85 swap starts to make a lot more sense. This is just my opinion though. I think $1400 is a lot more reasonable though, strictly speaking on staying NA.

I'm trying to figure out where I want to spend that makes the most sense for me before I start saving for boost. I definitely don't want to cheap out and would rather just NOT do a mod vs trying to do it cheap and cause more problems down the road.

 

[DarkSubRosa]

You won't need anything if you're N/A unless it's a crazy build. Stock pump is fine for bolt ons and e85.

ehhh, I don't want to burn up a stock pump. It will do that eventually without some sort of fuel system upgrade. I was speaking to my friend in the industry, who works for a major manufacturer, and highly suggested this is a bad idea to try and make a stock pump deal with this.

 

[mustang_guy]

You spend 1200ish-1500 (pending on brand) for headers for 20-30whp. 20 whp for e85 isnt? im confused.

 

[DarkSubRosa]

You spend 1200ish-1500 (pending on brand) for headers for 20-30whp. 20 whp for e85 isnt? im confused.

I only spent $1100'ish for headers and my tune through Lund is free to add headers.

To do E85 I'd at the very least spend, let's say $1400 for the system, and I doubt *if* I was to do I would do bare minimum so let's say $1600, plus tune, plus trying to make sure I'm getting good E85, buying some E98 for when it's not, and being concerned with water separation in the gas tank and fuel lines when I only drive the car once every couple of weeks.

That's why, for me, at least at this moment, I'm not seeing it worth it for me to do. As I continue to learn about it I might change my mind. I want to follow the builds and success everyone has. It's not solely about getting 20 whp. I'm determining if the gain is worth dealing with all of the above. At this point, it's not, at least not until I learn more.

 

[beefcake]

I think it makes more sense if boosted.



I was strictly saying I thought spending $2k for the Fore kit wasn't worth it *if* it was only being used for NA. Not that the parts aren't worth or I'm really balking at the price, but just looking at it from the stand point of until I'm FI, I don't see it being worth switching to E85 for NA. Once you're on the FI train and can seriously turn it up to add more power the E85 swap starts to make a lot more sense. This is just my opinion though. I think $1400 is a lot more reasonable though, strictly speaking on staying NA.

I'm trying to figure out where I want to spend that makes the most sense for me before I start saving for boost. I definitely don't want to cheap out and would rather just NOT do a mod vs trying to do it cheap and cause more problems down the road.

gotcha, and your correct

and the $1400 system can be upgraded as well

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