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Cats. & removal ?

junits15

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On a modern day performance car that is not used in any track or time trial events and the engine is not sustained at long (or very short/quick) intervals at very high speed/rpm - there is absolutely NO benefit to removing the catalytic converters.

Modern day catalytic converters (last 10 years) are very high flow and are not as restrictive as older systems of the past. Think about the performance cars out on the market now pushing 400-500-600HP right out of the box that were designed and built with catalytic converters in place.

You also cannot just remove the cats on an S550. Well... let's rephrase that - anyone can physically remove their cats...but error codes will surface AND even if bypassing the errors via known tricks, the car won't be running efficiently as designed (fact).

Operationally, you may need an aftermarket tune or a way to bypass the O2's, otherwise the engine will not perform at its optimum as designed and again multiple error codes may pop up.

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Removing cats and or the resonator will greatly increase the sound (loudness) of the vehicle. Essentially you're removing inline "baffles" which are keeping the exhaust tone down. Once those baffles are removed, the car exhaust note will get much louder and you may notice increased drone as well at certain RPM ranges.

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Does removing the cats improve exhaust flow? Yes BUT only to a degree as noted above regarding track use vs. daily driving. Adding LTH's and removing cats on a street driven vehicle where vehicle speed and RPM is not maintained, is erratic or sporadic stop/go intervals due to traffic, signal signs, signal lights, and lower speed limits in populated areas - it has NO benefit at all - other than the "loud factor".

If the car is to be used 90% or more for track use (drag racing, road racing or auto-X) and where rpm/speed is maintained higher than "normal" (ie: grocery getting), then deletion of cats and running LTH's can be beneficial where performance gains are not only recorded BUT also recognized in data.

In any instance a tune would also usually accompany such changes for track cars
where every bit of HP and closing time gaps is a need for gains.

If the car is aftermarket forced induction via turbos or supercharger, a tune is mandatory and again, removal of cats will only be beneficial to how the car is being used. If it's just putzing around town @45 mph for a run to a store and back, there's just no benefit.

If you're in a State or region that requires emissions inspections - removal of cats is not only going to be a PIA come inspection time - but if caught running without, that can be a pricey monetary fine.

Removal of cats will in some instances also increase exhaust smell (raw fuel smell) and the excessive loudness can bring attention to you.

No one can tell you what to do - it's your vehicle. Just take note of the above, especially if you're in a region where annual emissions inspections are a requirement.

Absolutely beautiful response, I have been advocating people leave their cats in for years.

To date I’ve never seen any real world before/after data proving that the catalyst itself offers any appreciable restriction.
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junits15

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more mpg, 20 more hp, less weight, sounds great.
You’re not gaining it from the cat delete you’re gaining it from the tune that you’re required to run after deleting the cats.

The car is octane limited out of the box, we’re not really up against a flow restriction.


Sound is subjective so I’ll give you that
 
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K4fxd

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You’re not gaining it from the cat delete you’re gaining it from the tune that you’re required to run after deleting the cats.
No tune required. The PCM will compensate for any increase in airflow. It will have a check engine light for cat inefficiency.
 

WildHorse

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What @K4fxd said. No need for a tune. Ford did us a solid by making it super easy haha.
 

Racinjason65

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I don’t get the current obsession so many people have with deleting cats. I have yet to see a back to back dyno verification of any performance gain at all, and a large portion of the people I see advocating for deleting cats still have the restrictions of the factory connects at the mid pipe and the over axle tubes that’s 2 1/4” (at least on GT’s) so I don’t see there being much of an overall increase in exhaust flow by simply removing cats. Then you have the negative effects of check engine lights (I’m not sure if that causes any performance issues) increased exhaust smell inside the car, potential emission/registration issues and resale issues when you want to get rid of the car and sound/noise (raspiness) potentially depending on your noise tolerance/goals.
 

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Racinjason65

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more mpg, 20 more hp, less weight, sounds great.
More mpg? How much and how did you verify this? 20 Hp from deleting cats? Happen to have a dyno sheet to back that up? Or just more stories about a clapped out 13 second car being quicker than a C8?
 

K4fxd

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Then you have the negative effects of check engine lights (I’m not sure if that causes any performance issues)
It does not. The S650 it might.
 

junits15

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No tune required. The PCM will compensate for any increase in airflow. It will have a check engine light for cat inefficiency.
Gotta turn off FAOSC if you wanna run catless, a tune is a good idea or else your ltfts will be out of whack
 
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Salty

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So were saying that basically cat removal is nothing but a noise upgrade? I've been debating going cat delete over headers just for ease of installation. If no power is being made by removing them then I may need to reevaluate my decision...
 

engineermike

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I know my dyno test it made more power with cats than without. I also don’t like the noise or smell without them.
 

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K4fxd

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On a 15 to 17 it might make more power without due to the 2 1/4 inch pipe from the cat to the hookup.

I don't like the smell either, I can smell a catless car a mile away.
 

TexasMetallic5.0

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I’ve never noticed any smell without cats, even when dumped under the rear seats.
 

K4fxd

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I’ve never noticed any smell without cats, even when dumped under the rear seats.
You must have a very efficient engine. The smell is unburnt hydrocarbons.
 

TexasMetallic5.0

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You must have a very efficient engine. The smell is unburnt hydrocarbons.
Beats me. I’ve had everything from SBS/BBC, LS’s, Coyotes and Cummins with no emissions and not been bothered. Plus over decade of working on military trucks running only a muffler inside the shop.
 

K4fxd

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You just might be used to it. I never smelled cars when I was younger but today when 99.9% are catted I do notice cars without.
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