brake fluid (spin off of another thread)

[grue]

thought i'd spin off a thread on brake fluid from prepping a 16 gt pp for track thread where the question of brake fluid came up.

motul rbf600 is a popular track fluid. castrol srf is also popular. it was pointed out that the '16 gt pp comes with dot 4 lv fluid which means "low viscosity". from a ate's website i posted a quote that it is their belief that low viscosity brake fluid (LV) is better for cars with electronic stability control (ESC). to the point where they say the ability to pump the brakes to prevent a skid, might be diminished. also, the mustang also uses brake fluid in the clutch.

my head is spinning.

i had a non-brembo '13 gt with motul rbf600 and tried wilwood exp, neither seemed to give me any issues. in fact on one occasion i did a drive school the stability control did save me a couple of times from going around. also had some fun on public roads where it seemed to work well. i didn't seem to have any issues with the clutch either.

so how important is this? it seems like it would be pretty important. then we run into questions of what fluid can "we" use?

thanks for everyone's feedback.

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[grue]

DOH! so here's something that came up tonight that didn't last night in my searching... it's from turnermotorsports.

The Ate SL6 fluid is a low viscosity formula for modern ABS and DSC systems. BMW recommends low viscosity brake fluid for all chassis beginning with the E60 5-series. Low viscosity (LV) is a thinner fluid that works better than a normal fluid in the small channels and passageways in the ABS/DSC pump. Using the heavier fluid will result in a delayed response to ABS and DSC activation and a spongy feel in the brake pedal (only during ABS stops). Ate SL.6 falls just short of DOT5 specs so is classified as a DOT4. It can be mixed with other DOT4 or DOT5.1 fluid. For track use, a heavier high performance brake fluid such as Ate Typ 200 or Motul RBF600 or RBF660 is recommended because of their higher boiling point and because the thicker fluid will thin out at track temps. But for street use we recommend switching back to a LV fluid, especially in colder climates.

 

[Impulsed7]

Turner knows their stuff when it comes to two things. Racing, and outrageous pricing. Thankfully this only falls under racing knowledge...

 

[grue]

lol. i've found a ton of info mostly involving the bmw guys and they all pretty much seem to agree with it.

it looks like it's OK to use non LV brake fluid - unless i hear/learn otherwise. and motul seems to be a pick for track for many reasons. it's the "killer app" of brake fluids.

several others out there ap racing, wilwood and some i've never heard of, endless, neosynthetics... and the brake man! i have also found some site comparing boiling points.

i wonder if the fluid that comes with the performance pack is the brembo lcf 600 plus, or the brembo htc 64t? pagid rbf and ferodo super formula or just formula seem like they are potential fluids also.

i used to just think of motul going back 15 years ago when i had my subbie. redline even has a fluid that looks hightemp.

i think i might just stick with the motul, like i said unless i hear/learn something new between now and then...

 

[Impulsed7]

i boiled the stock pretty quick, so I'm betting its just regular ford (maybe some factory performance crap) I've used type 200 and super blue pretty regularly on the track, but never in a car this heavy before. The motul is pretty good from what I hear, as well as the castrol react SRF racing. trying both of those later this year.

 

[Hawk296]

I would assume the factory fill performance pack or not is the motorcraft PM-20 DOT 4 LV.

But I cannot find any info on dry or wet boiling points.

 

[grue]

ford parts says the motorcraft dot 3 fluid has a minimum dry boiling point of 500 degrees.

as an aside, i found these precious posts on a corvette forum:

> Since I didn't know what kind of brake fluid the previous owner had used (probably just DOT 3) and I wanted to >prevent the brake fluid from boiling...i.e. I wanted the fluid to match the new brakes performance capabilities,
>I flushed the entire brake system out and serviced it with DOT 5 fluid...good for 500 degrees

after someone breaking the news to him about dot 5 fluid, he begrudgingly responded:

After seeing these suggestions I read through my owner's manual and found nothing specifically stating not to use DOT5, the only reference I found was under servicing where of course they give a GM part number for DOT3. I've had no problems with the brakes at all. However, I'll take the advice here and find a DOT3 fluid that meets or exceeds what I'm looking for and change fluids again.

obviously he went with dot 5 ... BECAUSE AMERICA!

 

[Brent Dalton]

I tracked my GT pp car all stock 1 day when I first got it without issue. I just did a 3 day event at COTA with 295 Hoosier R7's and XP12/10 pads and Castrol SRF fluid. No issue boiling the fluid.

 

[apex15stangPP]

I kinda of started the LV fluid thing, sorry. I'm switching back to Motorcraft PM-20 because the Motul 600 left the peddle feeling spongy, I bleed the brakes before every event, so I know it wasn't air. The brake peddle just has never felt as good as it did with the stock fluid, but I may find out its total crap and boil it in the first 20 mins...LOL

 

[grue]

I tracked my GT pp car all stock 1 day when I first got it without issue. I just did a 3 day event at COTA with 295 Hoosier R7's and XP12/10 pads and Castrol SRF fluid. No issue boiling the fluid.

nice! are there videos?

 

[texaswrx]

I miss the old days of ATE blue and gold......sigh

 

[grue]

I kinda of started the LV fluid thing, sorry. I'm switching back to Motorcraft PM-20 because the Motul 600 left the peddle feeling spongy, I bleed the brakes before every event, so I know it wasn't air. The brake peddle just has never felt as good as it did with the stock fluid, but I may find out its total crap and boil it in the first 20 mins...LOL

no sorry, it's a good thing to bring up and the questions that go along with it. like what's the BP of PM-20? etc...

yeah and dude, hate to see someone boil it and wreck their car.

to me it's important enough to try and understand since most tracks are different and my "home track" happens to be on the hard side of brakes. still though, things like cooling ducts and appropriate pads can minimize the risks.

in terms of braking technique, i was taught the best way is to be pretty much as hard on the brakes as possible for the shortest amount of time, i may end up needing to ease off the pedal by the time i get to the turn. but one thing said was that this is better in terms of heat build up vs. riding the brakes or getting on them slowly, then suddenly harder.

in fact, one time i had poor quality track pads and ended up doing just that because the cars in front of me had bunched up. so i pressed down again hard on the pedal and one of the pads crumbled about 1/2 away.

 

[Brent Dalton]

nice! are there videos?

Yes Sir. In the lap time thread at the top of this subforum or a few threads below this one in the circuit of the Americas thread.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I kinda of started the LV fluid thing, sorry. I'm switching back to Motorcraft PM-20 because the Motul 600 left the peddle feeling spongy, I bleed the brakes before every event, so I know it wasn't air. The brake peddle just has never felt as good as it did with the stock fluid, but I may find out its total crap and boil it in the first 20 mins...LOL

Are you getting into the ABS when it's not feeling as good? Or is it related to initial bite?


Norm

 

[daltron]

What about AMSOIL DOT 4?

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