Blown motor last night

[Livernois Motorsports]

I don't see the engine options on your web site. Can you share links with the details of what's available in each and price? Also, what is the normal lead time for an order? I'm not looking to buy now, just want to be aware of options.

I am very surprised we didn't have this on there. I know we devised this quite some time ago, so I was as surprised as you were that it wasn't listed. Here is a live link to the page now.

https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750097

It's still being filled in with detail, so I apologize in advance that it's a basic product page right now.

For everyone's information, it contains the following:

Livernois Motorsports In-House Custom Machining to +/- .0001
Livernois Motorsports Powerstorm Main Stud Kit
Livernois Motorsports Selected H-Beam Rods
Livernois Motorsports Selected 2618 Forged Pistons with File Fit Rings
H-Series Performance Bearings
Livernois Motorsports Climate Controlled Clean Room Precision Assembling
Livernois Motorsports Street Series Deburring
OEM Mustang 2.3 Block
OEM Crankshaft precision polished and balanced to +/- 1 gram
Livernois Motorsports 1-Year Warranty

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[KadenW23]

It's always tough to see a forum member run into this kind of situation. No one wants people to fail engines, but these situations are exactly why we take a certain path on finding power, while maintaining as much safety and reliability as possible. Unfortunately we see so many tuners take lax approaches when it comes to safety all in the name of a 10th of a second, or a few extra HP to build their reputation at the expense of their customer's reliability. Making HP by turning off the very safeties Ford put into place for a plethora of situations and scenarios is the easy way out of what is already the easiest part of any calibration. Taking the time to make a calibration work with safeties and utilize them properly is what takes effort and skill. We try to think in things for the big picture, is a 10th or 2 of a second worth $4-8k? I think almost any customer when presented with the question in this manner might rethink their plan of action. But, it's exactly our mentality with upgrade recommendations. A properly and thoroughly developed tune doesn't need to be changed with the seasons, and should allow for proper diagnostics and safety when legitimate outside issues crop up.

With that said, to the OP, I realize that there is no way to go back in time and change things, so none of this is much comfort to you, but hopefully those reading this be mindful about selecting tunes that have use restrictions like temperatures, blends of fuel, or other aspects. These situations just invite chaos and tragedy because there are so many aspects that cannot be controlled by the user, or the computer with certain safeties disabled.

Now, on the engine front, I believe we can help with that. I just checked with our engine build department and we have one of our newly released Street Series engines with a further upgraded rod in process for a customer. We checked with that customer and this was going to be a back up engine for them for the upcoming race season. To help out a fellow forum member in need, they are ok with having us start over for them and allow you to take their spot in line. Or, we could do our regular Street Series shortblock. The Street Series is $3699 outright, and the Rod Upgrade option that we can get done the quickest would be $3999. Please let us know if we can help in any way!

Thank you guys for the post. It is nice to see some experienced people chiming in about this topic, as I know they attract a lot of attention as to why these types of things are happening.

As for the car, it is being hauled to my local Ford dealership on Monday to see what the overall damage is to the motor. If it was indeed just the short block that was damaged and no damage to the head or surrounding engine components I may end up taking yall up on that offer seeing as though it will be the cheapest option as well as on of the most reliable long term options.

As for those who are waiting on the engine code, I apologize as I have been quite busy with finals and trying to figure out what I am going to do with the car. With finals and the next step for the car figured out the engine code will be up tomorrow as I will be cleaning my car out and getting it ready to be tow into the dealership. Thank for being patient. This has been quite a stressful week for me.

Although, I can not stress enough now that I am going through this to make sure you have your car dialed in for the season, or have a mild all season tune that does not push you car too hard. These turbo cars are very picky when it comes to ambient air temp.

 

[Juben]

The Street Series is $3699 outright, and the Rod Upgrade option that we can get done the quickest would be $3999. Please let us know if we can help in any way!

Tell me more about this too. I've been looking into short block options as I'd like to install one over the winter months when I won't be driving it much. Can you detail what's included for both prices, the $3,699 and the $3,999?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Thank you guys for the post. It is nice to see some experienced people chiming in about this topic, as I know they attract a lot of attention as to why these types of things are happening.

As for the car, it is being hauled to my local Ford dealership on Monday to see what the overall damage is to the motor. If it was indeed just the short block that was damaged and no damage to the head or surrounding engine components I may end up taking yall up on that offer seeing as though it will be the cheapest option as well as on of the most reliable long term options.

As for those who are waiting on the engine code, I apologize as I have been quite busy with finals and trying to figure out what I am going to do with the car. With finals and the next step for the car figured out the engine code will be up tomorrow as I will be cleaning my car out and getting it ready to be tow into the dealership. Thank for being patient. This has been quite a stressful week for me.

Although, I can not stress enough now that I am going through this to make sure you have your car dialed in for the season, or have a mild all season tune that does not push you car too hard. These turbo cars are very picky when it comes to ambient air temp.

No problem, even if this one that's in process isn't up for grabs when you're ready, we can typically do these fairly quickly. There are some things I wanted to add here just so people don't get the wrong idea. Just because it's not a season specific tune does not mean it's mild. We can only directly speak on ours of course, but safe does not necessarily equal mild. We've had a large number of our customers run fantastic times with our tuning, all without needing to switch tunes around based on weather conditions. It takes more time and effort to set a tune up this way in the R+D phase, but it's worth it in the long run, we promise. The reason you typically see seasonal use tunes is because there aren't safeties in place for things going sideways.

Rarely is this due to any ability to extract more power, it is simply a shortcut way to get tunes done, but makes it so when things do go bad, the safety net is gone and things go badly very quickly. Can this maybe get in the way of a great 1/4 mile run? Of course, but only if it's trying to save the engine because something is wrong. Loss of pressure, overboost, severe or sustained knock, and many other possible conditions. If these are the culprit, I'll chose the ability to drive home over running a number any day of the week. The computer, if allowed to do it's job, is going to be quicker reacting than anything a person can do.

 

[chadhtx40]

What were you peaking at in the cold weather? on 93 on my tune from Tune+ adjusted last summer I peaked under 24psi currently with ignition corrections that were very low like -.12 lol. On my e30 I still do in the upper 25 psi on boost and that is recent. I'm a May 2015 Build engine from the Great country of USA. When did you purchase your car. Mine was purchased in June 2015.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Tell me more about this too. I've been looking into short block options as I'd like to install one over the winter months when I won't be driving it much. Can you detail what's included for both prices, the $3,699 and the $3,999?

Check out post 46

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1628200&postcount=46

Now, this rod upgrade one is a limited time deal on it. It's the last one we have at this price, we will still be producing the rod upgrade option moving forward, but it will be going up to $4199, it's identical to the build detailed above, but with the Billet rod upgrade.

 

[jcart953]

The Street Series is $3699 outright, and the Rod Upgrade option that we can get done the quickest would be $3999. Please let us know if we can help in any way!

I didn't know about this option either do you know how much Whp each block supports?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I didn't know about this option either do you know how much Whp each block supports?

We rate our shortblocks as follows:

Street Series with standard rod to 450HP
Street Series with rod upgrade to 500HP (limited by sleeve/deck)
Pro Series with Standard Rod to 500HP
Pro Series with Rod upgrade to 600HP (limited by sleeve)
Race Series, which includes the rod upgrade, pistons upgrade, deck brace, and sleeve upgrade to 800HP
Extreme Series, which includes all upgrades found in the Race Series, but with an upgraded block to 900HP

 

[Edkiefer]

We rate our shortblocks as follows:

Street Series with standard rod to 450HP
Street Series with rod upgrade to 500HP (limited by sleeve/deck)
Pro Series with Standard Rod to 500HP
Pro Series with Rod upgrade to 600HP (limited by sleeve)
Race Series, which includes the rod upgrade, pistons upgrade, deck brace, and sleeve upgrade to 800HP
Extreme Series, which includes all upgrades found in the Race Series, but with an upgraded block to 900HP

What would you rate the OEM stock block, rods, 400hp?

 

[TheLion]

What would you rate the OEM stock block, rods, 400hp?

When i was researching Livernois and their software i was told on average up to about 400 wtq and 350 whp. Once you start to exceed those power levels you start to see failures (they may not be immediate, but 10k, 20k and it will fatigue). Unless im remmebering incorrectly. If you look at K-Rolls LMS 93 dyno i posted, with his only other upgrade being a FMIC, peak hp is around 317 on the dot and torque at 360. However the power band is darn impressive. They are holding over 280 whp from 4000 to 6500. Peak values dont neccessarily = fastest. Greatest area under the curve does and thats one heck of a table top but well within those limits which when combined with their level of development for safety is impressive. Also theres no harm in running an octane buffer. Their 91 tune on 93 is fairly close to their 93, its hard to tell the difference in the butt dyno.

I have cooling upgrades such as radiator and their 160F thermostat so id imagine my 93 dyno will be a bit better or my 91 dyno would be about the same as K-Rolls 93 due to the upgrades, which is great for a street car, all while having an octane buffer as well since most stations around here carry 92 or 93.

 

[Edkiefer]

When i was researching Livernois and their software i was told on average up to about 400 wtq and 350 whp. Once you start to exceed those power levels you start to see failures (they may not be immediate, but 10k, 20k and it will fatigue). Unless im remmebering incorrectly. If you look at K-Rolls LMS 93 dyno i posted, with his only other upgrade being a FMIC, peak hp is around 317 on the dot and torque at 360. However the power band is darn impressive. They are holding over 280 whp from 4000 to 6500. Peak values dont neccessarily = fastest. Greatest area under the curve does and thats one heck of a table top but well within those limits which when combined with their level of development for safety is impressive. Also theres no harm in running an octane buffer. Their 91 tune on 93 is fairly close to their 93, its hard to tell the difference in the butt dyno.

I have cooling upgrades such as radiator and their 160F thermostat so id imagine my 93 dyno will be a bit better or my 91 dyno would be about the same as K-Rolls 93 due to the upgrades, which is great for a street car, all while having an octane buffer as well since most stations around here carry 92 or 93.

right, I just through that 400hp # out there.
With the way EB are setup to TQ# is probably more important as engines get massive TQ at repetitively low rpms.
I just wanted to see how there default rods match up to stock ones.
also what rod cap bolt size do they use.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

We rate the stock engine as a 350hp max safe level. anything after this you're on borrowed time. It might not fail immediately, but it's a matter of when, not if. In theory, if we did a race engine with the lesser of the 2 rods, it would likely be rated to 550 as the added rigidity of the block structure would translate into some improved handling ability of the engine as a whole, even with the lesser rod. But, I don't think anyone would ever spring for the full race build, and then decide to put the lesser rod in it. As for that rod, it does have a 3/8" 220,000 PSI material bolt.

 

[apx632]

We rate our shortblocks as follows:

Street Series with standard rod to 450HP
Street Series with rod upgrade to 500HP (limited by sleeve/deck)
Pro Series with Standard Rod to 500HP
Pro Series with Rod upgrade to 600HP (limited by sleeve)
Race Series, which includes the rod upgrade, pistons upgrade, deck brace, and sleeve upgrade to 800HP
Extreme Series, which includes all upgrades found in the Race Series, but with an upgraded block to 900HP

Would you consider your race series a streetable motor that could be driven daily?

 

[GJarrett]

We rate the stock engine as a 350hp max safe level. anything after this you're on borrowed time. It might not fail immediately, but it's a matter of when, not if. In theory, if we did a race engine with the lesser of the 2 rods, it would likely be rated to 550 as the added rigidity of the block structure would translate into some improved handling ability of the engine as a whole, even with the lesser rod. But, I don't think anyone would ever spring for the full race build, and then decide to put the lesser rod in it. As for that rod, it does have a 3/8" 220,000 PSI material bolt.

So if I understand you correctly, the weak point is the stock rods. If only the rods were upgraded the engine would rate higher safe hp?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Would you consider your race series a streetable motor that could be driven daily?

Without hesitation. We design our engine upgrades to ensure of this. Except for some race only one off builds, all of our upgrades are designed around making power reliably in a street car.

So if I understand you correctly, the weak point is the stock rods. If only the rods were upgraded the engine would rate higher safe hp?

Yes, but the OEM piston is right behind it. So even if the rod was better, 380 or so would be around that hypothetical limit.

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