GT350 vs. Z/28

thePill · Mar 1, 2015

02gtnh said:
Your numbers are everywhere. You just said a few post ago that Terry's weight was 3663, now your saying 3718.:headbonk:

Ug... The numbers aren't all over the place, there's just too many for you to keep up.

His 2011 weighed 3563lbs with little fuel, not equipment in the trunk.

It should weigh about 110lbs more full and equipment restored (3673 est.)

His fully loaded Yellow 2015 premium GTPP weighed 3718lbs with little fuel.

That's about 125lbs in options vs. Terry's weight on the Base GT at 3593lbs.

Before, he thought...

It's heavy but I can manage the 150lbs difference. Two weeks later, the gap is 30lbs...

02gtnh · Mar 1, 2015

thePill said:
Ug... The numbers aren't all over the place, there's just too many for you to keep up.

His 2011 weighed 3563lbs with little fuel, not equipment in the trunk.

It should weigh about 110lbs more full and equipment restored (3673 est.)

His fully loaded Yellow 2015 premium GTPP weighed 3718lbs with little fuel.

That's about 125lbs in options vs. Terry's weight on the Base GT at 3593lbs.

Before, he thought...

It's heavy but I can manage the 150lbs difference. Two weeks later, the gap is 30lbs...

Ok, everything you said there made sense except the last sentence in which 2 weeks the gap was 30lbs. Your est of the fully loaded 2011 at 3673 is close. Now his fully loaded 15 would be 3814 when all full. So fully loaded 2011 to a fully loaded 15 is 141lbs but what you are tring to do is compare the fully loaded 2011 weight of 3673 to the 15 base weight of 3705 to come up with your 30lbs. A 2011 base weight was only 3605, or 100lbs less then a 2015. But the actual number is quite larger like the fully loaded number of 141lbs, because the base 2011 came with a spare tire and jack, while the 2015 only has the air pump. But the 2011 premium only had the air pump just like the 15, that is why it's 141 true weight difference. :thumbsup:

thePill · Mar 1, 2015

02gtnh said:
Ok, everything you said there made sense except the last sentence in which 2 weeks the gap was 30lbs. Your est of the fully loaded 2011 at 3673 is close. Now his fully loaded 15 would be 3814 when all full. So fully loaded 2011 to a fully loaded 15 is 141lbs but what you are tring to do is compare the fully loaded 2011 weight of 3673 to the 15 base weight of 3705 to come up with your 30lbs. A 2011 base weight was only 3605, or 100lbs less then a 2015. But the actual number is quite larger like the fully loaded number of 141lbs, because the base 2011 came with a spare tire and jack, while the 2015 only has the air pump. But the 2011 premium only had the air pump just like the 15, that is why it's 141 true weight difference.

The spare tire and jack were not included into the Base number. It would have made a potential 50-60lbs Brembo Package weigh nearly 100-120lbs. The weight of the spare and jack would show up in the actual weights. Say a 3616lbs Premium would weigh well over 3700lbs once a Brembo option was equipped. We seen 3660 and 3690lbs...

We will not be adding in the new package weights into our figure. The 2015 GT has far better equipment beyond the tires and wheels than a S197 Premium Brembo/Track Package car. The equipment weights are nearly identical, including the wheels/tires/rotors/seats/stereo. I know what Ford officially reported, its just not what was actually observed. The 3622lbs GT was the Performance benchmark as was it's weight. The media led us to believe that these cars were all 3622lbs. They were in fact heavier....

...this season, since the Government decided to get involved, won't allow things like "Spare tire removal" or best case. It is either an average of the two models (Base and Premium) or, is actually the weight of the Premium itself. The 12 speaker would be the heaviest option, so, could there be 30-35lbs stuck in there?

That 30-35lbs of error is a healthy portion of the claimed 135lbs. I would rather see the GT350 scale lighter than be claimed lighter....

02gtnh · Mar 1, 2015

The spare only came in the base in 2011. Plus it doesn't matter that the base 2015 has better stuff. It still shows over 100 lb increase no matter how you slice it. Here is a good read.

http://themustangsource.com/forums/f726/2011-mustang-gt-actual-weight-483644/

Sasuketr · Mar 1, 2015

Ok guys can someone explain me what trunk junk/equipment are you guys talking about? The only thing in the trunk is a 4lb pump:shrug: The trunk carpet completes the car you can't take it off to loose weight in daily driving situations.

02gtnh · Mar 1, 2015

Sasuketr said:
Ok guys can someone explain me what trunk junk/equipment are you guys talking about? The only thing in the trunk is a 4lb pump:shrug: The trunk carpet completes the car you can't take it off to loose weight in daily driving situations.

Everything in the trunk that can be taken out.:cheers:

nametoshowothers · Mar 2, 2015

02gtnh said:
Everything in the trunk that can be taken out.:cheers:

this whole weight thing is a little bit of a crock.

When you go to the track you take out all floor mats, trunk mat, spare tire, inflator, etc. basically anything that is not needed and can move or fly around and break things while driving at the limit. So they are never in the car for a serious go at the track.

now we get manufactures charging extra for providing less in the name of magazine BS weight reports.

I probably am going to get a GT350 R and I will go buy the trunk mat, floor mats, tire inflator emergency kit - all the shit that you need for driving down the road for real life (not some BS magazine test). It will cost extra and it will burn that I am getting ripped off for some BS reasons.

I will get aircon and navigation as well. Only an idiot would live in Texas and not get aircon. If I wanted a pure track car, I would get an ariel atom, or some retired road race car chassis, -- not a brand new car with air bags.

As every time I go to the track, out will come everything that is not needed - at the track and will go back in on the way home. The next day I will drive it to work.

traxiii · Mar 3, 2015

Cool pic of the proposed Ford GT Race Version

thePill · Mar 3, 2015

traxiii said:
Cool pic of the proposed Ford GT Race Version

Where do I get in?

thePill · Mar 3, 2015

02gtnh said:
The spare only came in the base in 2011. Plus it doesn't matter that the base 2015 has better stuff. It still shows over 100 lb increase no matter how you slice it. Here is a good read.

http://themustangsource.com/forums/f726/2011-mustang-gt-actual-weight-483644/

...and I understand your point, however, I am not an idiot...

Under no circumstances should I be adding in additional equipment weight and cost, only to turn around and complain about these two specific issues.

I know the Mustang doesn't gain weight unless we option it as such, I warned against the option weight this year did I not?

Facts are Facts, the previous GT's were "weighed" and tested at 3622lbs. In almost every circumstance, the Premium Brembo/Track Pack WAS the benchmark.

Initially, the report was 87lbs heavier. That was from the REPORTED 3622lbs. That would have us all believing the 2015 would be 3705lbs right?

Well... Once we actually weighed the Base '15 and the S197 it was replacing, we didn't find an 87lbs difference. We found that they were almost identical... NOT 87lbs like initially reported. As time went on, the media raised the actual weight gain to almost 200lbs but never reported the details really... again, saying one thing and doing another...

As you suggest, I should only add in the Premium and Performance Package to equip the new car competitively with the old one. That would mean the Mustang would weigh in around 3800lbs... it would also be close to $40,000

That is what you want me to do?

No, I am not doing that...

Instead, I will use my brain, compare the actual equipment and base-line weigh the cars without the crap you so desperately need the Mustang to come with.

The 2015's equipment is a wash compared to the 2011's. Futhermore, it isn't even near an 87lbs real weight difference. Maybe there is an 87lbs difference between the Base 2011 and the Base 2015, but not as everyone here suggested.

You see, once I had my own weight of my own S197, I figured that 87lbs would have been slapped onto my 3579lbs figure. That is what scared us... Adding in an additional 90lbs on top of my 3579 should have made an S550 around 3670lbs dry... but then again, that would of made a Base 2015 officially 3770lbs right?

Sorry to burst your tiny bubble, these cars are literally right on top of the S197's they were replacing. If the Base weight was mentioned for the S197, I sure the hell never heard of it "Officially".

Everyone laughs at the 87lbs difference then tries to argue once they start showing up a lot lighter....

So what?!?!?

Edit: The link shows a Base 300a Manual GT at 3600lbs full. Based on my 20/20 spread theory and the Bases reported 3580lbs, I would say he has himself a heavy Base GT. There are Premiums that been caught just under 3600lbs that same year... but as high as almost 3650lbs :( Some Brembo Premiums were almost 3700lbs too :(

Pretty similar to my theory here but now only having only ONE curb weight reported by Ford. In this respect, the new Mustang would be 100lbs heavier than a 2011 if the Base and Premium's weight was an average. However, it doesn't change the actual numbers observed by 3rd Parties. They can report whatever they want to, it won't be accurate for your vehicle. That is the down fall of only giving out one weight for an almost infinite combination of options and packages.

DivineStrike · Mar 3, 2015

thePill said:
...and I understand your point, however, I am not an idiot...

Under no circumstances should I be adding in additional equipment weight and cost, only to turn around and complain about these two specific issues.

I know the Mustang doesn't gain weight unless we option it as such, I warned against the option weight this year did I not?

Facts are Facts, the previous GT's were "weighed" and tested at 3622lbs. In almost every circumstance, the Premium Brembo/Track Pack WAS the benchmark.

Initially, the report was 87lbs heavier. That was from the REPORTED 3622lbs. That would have us all believing the 2015 would be 3705lbs right?

Well... Once we actually weighed the Base '15 and the S197 it was replacing, we didn't find an 87lbs difference. We found that they were almost identical... NOT 87lbs like initially reported. As time went on, the media raised the actual weight gain to almost 200lbs but never reported the details really... again, saying one thing and doing another...

As you suggest, I should only add in the Premium and Performance Package to equip the new car competitively with the old one. That would mean the Mustang would weigh in around 3800lbs... it would also be close to $40,000

That is what you want me to do?

No, I am not doing that...

Instead, I will use my brain, compare the actual equipment and base-line weigh the cars without the crap you so desperately need the Mustang to come with.

The 2015's equipment is a wash compared to the 2011's. Futhermore, it isn't even near an 87lbs real weight difference. Maybe there is an 87lbs difference between the Base 2011 and the Base 2015, but not as everyone here suggested.

You see, once I had my own weight of my own S197, I figured that 87lbs would have been slapped onto my 3579lbs figure. That is what scared us... Adding in an additional 90lbs on top of my 3579 should have made an S550 around 3670lbs dry... but then again, that would of made a Base 2015 officially 3770lbs right?

Sorry to burst your tiny bubble, these cars are literally right on top of the S197's they were replacing. If the Base weight was mentioned for the S197, I sure the hell never heard of it "Officially".

Everyone laughs at the 87lbs difference then tries to argue once they start showing up a lot lighter....

So what?!?!?

Edit: The link shows a Base 300a Manual GT at 3600lbs full. Based on my 20/20 spread theory and the Bases reported 3580lbs, I would say he has himself a heavy Base GT. There are Premiums that been caught just under 3600lbs that same year... but as high as almost 3650lbs :( Some Brembo Premiums were almost 3700lbs too :(

Pretty similar to my theory here but now only having only ONE curb weight reported by Ford. In this respect, the new Mustang would be 100lbs heavier than a 2011 if the Base and Premium's weight was an average. However, it doesn't change the actual numbers observed by 3rd Parties. They can report whatever they want to, it won't be accurate for your vehicle. That is the down fall of only giving out one weight for an almost infinite combination of options and packages.

The base car has been proven to weigh around 3705lbs

thePill · Mar 3, 2015

DivineStrike said:
The base car has been proven to weigh around 3705lbs

...and one was proven to weigh 3695 and 3688 and 3675 and 3668...

...Wolf weighed a Black GTPP at 3716 and 3722lbs...

All weights are still within an acceptable spread I would say AND, could give an explanation as to only a single weight is reported this generation opposed to a separate Base and Premium last year.

Just as we just seen a Base 2011 weigh 3600lbs, I have seen them weigh 3550. That is a looser spread than I anticipate the new cars to suffer from... In that respect, we could anticipate a possible 3610lbs Base GT somewhere...

...because what goes up must always go down...

With the sheer lack of another number, it tells me something was different this year. With the possible perversion of the curb weight system (which DOES have an affect on the reported MPG rating), a slightly stricter reporting standard was implemented waaaaay back in 2011.

None of that changes the fact that the 2015 is literally the same weight as the GT it was benchmarked against.

I will also warn that the GTPP's Package weight is overly heavy. As in, didn't give any sh!ts about weight savings AT ALL. There is almost 100lbs of rotating mass at each corner in wheel/tire and rotor alone. That is a freaking no go...

A trick that maybe a GT350 could lose a few pounds just by opting for more expensive, lightweight wheels and rotors.

What if they save 25lbs per corner over the GTPP? Just in wheels and rotors...

...and that could be just the GT350 and GT350TP... The GT's Performance Package weight is heavy, lots of weight loss potential there.

DivineStrike · Mar 3, 2015

thePill said:
...and one was proven to weigh 3695 and 3688 and 3675 and 3668...

...Wolf weighed a Black GTPP at 3716 and 3722lbs...

All weights are still within an acceptable spread I would say AND, could give an explanation as to only a single weight is reported this generation opposed to a separate Base and Premium last year.

Just as we just seen a Base 2011 weigh 3600lbs, I have seen them weigh 3550. That is a looser spread than I anticipate the new cars to suffer from... In that respect, we could anticipate a possible 3610lbs Base GT somewhere...

...because what goes up must always go down...

With the sheer lack of another number, it tells me something was different this year. With the possible perversion of the curb weight system (which DOES have an affect on the reported MPG rating), a slightly stricter reporting standard was implemented waaaaay back in 2011.

None of that changes the fact that the 2015 is literally the same weight as the GT it was benchmarked against.

I will also warn that the GTPP's Package weight is overly heavy. As in, didn't give any sh!ts about weight savings AT ALL. There is almost 100lbs of rotating mass at each corner in wheel/tire and rotor alone. That is a freaking no go...

A trick that maybe a GT350 could lose a few pounds just by opting for more expensive, lightweight wheels and rotors.

What if they save 25lbs per corner over the GTPP? Just in wheels and rotors...

...and that could be just the GT350 and GT350TP... The GT's Performance Package weight is heavy, lots of weight loss potential there.

No, on murphyslaw's car the weight is 3705, your math is incorrect.

Math= 3593 + 97.65 (15.5ish gallons of gas at 6.3lbs per gallon) + 13lbs trunk junkfor a total of 3704lbs

Where are you getting 3675 and 3668 from?

The 3688 number you have is correct if it is based off the car you weighed. You might even be giving it a couple extra pounds

I agree there is plenty of weight to be lost in the wheels and brakes... I hope some track duty lighter weight rotors come available for the pp. Including lighter wheels I would like to lose at least 20lbs per corner

02gtnh · Mar 3, 2015

Pill, the spare tire in the base is not a option, it came with the car, thus part of the base curb weight of 3605. That spare and jack is 40+ lbs. Any premium or Brembo package car only got a air pump which has been weighed at 3lbs. So that is why we see base GT and Brembo weigh so close to each other, thus getting the idea that base has options to them. But in reality a base would only weigh 3565lbs without the spare and only the air pump. So a Brembo GT that weighs the 3622 looks to be close to base weight when it actually is 57lbs heavier with both having air pumps.

1320' · Mar 3, 2015

Essex racing has already revealed their front PP 2pc rotors...10 lbs lighter each for 20 total.

As a matter of side point..a few folks over at the SVT boards weighed the complete IRS assy vs a 197 style SRA and came up with roughly 100lb difference when similarly equipped with hardware.

100% of the weight gain over the S197 is in the IRS and exhaust which account for right about 125lbs over the S197. The bones of the S550 is actually looking to be a slimmer, lighter but much more stiff and solid platform than the outgoing last generation

http://www.svt. performance.com/forums/showthread.php?1057041-IRS-vs-Solid-Axle-weight-comparison

GT350 vs. Z/28

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