New Camaro is a generation ahead

TexArmageddon · Dec 18, 2016

68fbjjz109 said:
Sorry man this is alot of nonsense. This whole GM sucks because of shared platforms is petty as it is stupid. Ford does the exact same thing.

Why? Because it's smart.

F150
Superduty
Expedition

Guess what they are all sharing componets. Ford made a big capital investment with aluminum body on frame vehicles. And by God their going to get their monies worth. Just like GM.

What are you going to say if Lincoln builds a S550 or S650 based car? Heck maybe that's why S650 was pushed up two years, Lincoln is going to help pay some program bills.

Drive and ATS, then go Drive a Camaro then tell me it's not unique in its own way.

Just depends honestly.. there are what 3-4 cars sitting on the ATS platform. I think 3 but I don't feel up to looking. Regardless, that's three cars with different lights, brakes, wheel design, interior design, etc. For what? To barely outpace mustang sales with all three sales together? It's not like mustang hasn't outsold the whole ATS platform a few times either.

In this case, confining your market( camaro) to a small sedan ( dimensions etc..) didn't pay off for them in the slightest. Buying in bulk has always been the cheapest route for companies and I'm positive Ford is striking better deals than GM in that regard. In the end, it's only smart if the shared platform is agreed upon by the market and so far that isn't happening ... Not for the camaro or caddy line up..

Serves gm right for picking to axe Pontiac over GMC trucks.

15GTBEN · Dec 18, 2016

RatFink71 said:
Those are trucks and are pretty much commuter vehicles. I would expect a manufacture to share things between regular commuter stuff. You are right, it just makes sense. IMHO, things are different when it comes to the performance side of things, especially something like Camaro vs. Mustang. Chevy is just being cheap. They addressed 0 issues with the flawed body. Gen 6 still has tiny trunk opening, it still has a ultra high belt line which makes the passengers sit way low in the car, and the interior center stack is still hideous looking to me anyways. Chevy shortened the width of the Gen 6 to fit the narrower chassis of the Cadillac ATS-V. They did nothing else to improve on the flaws of the Gen 5. I hate the Gen 6 because it represents the easy way out for Chevy. Cadillac designed the ATS-V chassis, that chassis was shared with nobody before the Camaro. Cadillac has never done that before except for a few failed attempts in the 80's. I guess for someone like me that actually respects and knows the history of the Camaro, this is a big deal. The horsepower from the new LT engine is not what makes the Camaro better than the Mustang, it's the damn ultra high end chassis from GM's premier facet. The Camaro and ATS-V sit on the exact same chassis. Chevy just redesigned the front to accept a v-8 engine. There are differences between driving the 2 but it is purely the difference between driving a n/a v-8 engine and a turbo 6. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the Camaro anymore, it is just a mixture of other cars with a Camaro badge slapped on it. If Ford was to ever build a parts bin Mustang, then I would be giving them just as hard of a time. Also, if that were to ever happen, I would then be done with new cars and turn my total attention to older models when the cars identity and uniqueness were still intact. If we are building parts bin cars then just stick the Camaro on a Corvette chassis and call it a day. I mean, where does the parts borrowing and swapping end? I guess I'm the only one bothered by this, I don't know I guess it is kinda petty but it bothers me.

Please use enter button. It's hard to read a big brick paragraph. :gossip:

02gtnh · Dec 18, 2016

RatFink71 said:
,,,and until Chevy does something with the body and it's tiny trunk opening, ultra high belt line, hideous interior, and poor visibility problems - then they will continue to lower prices to move them off the dealer lots. For some, it's not just about performance. The only reason the Camaro out handles a GT Mustang is because it sits on an already developed high end chassis with Magnaride suspension from a car that is nothing like the Camaro. This whole Alpha platform crap is just that, crap. The Cadillac ATS-V is an ultra high end luxury sedan while the Camaro is a working persons musclecar, the 2 cars are nothing alike and should not share chassis. It pisses me off that the Camaro out handles the Mustang because the Camaro is not a Camaro - it's a damn Cadillac ATS-V. Of course it out handles the Mustang GT, the chassis is from a total upscale class of car. Back in the day platforms were shared between similar cars (example: F-body was shared between Camaro and Firebird which were 2 similar cars). Back then it was pure Camaro vs. pure Mustang. Now it is a ultra high end car, Cadillac ATS-V vs. musclecar, Mustang. I would not buy a Cadillac ATS-V, I mean Camaro even if the price dropped to 20 grand. The Camaro has no soul.

If Ford or Lincoln actually had another high performance car, you can bet they would share platforms as it's the smartest thing to do. But Ford doesn't and that is why the Mustang has its own and no other reason. For those who say the Fusion, that car is far from a performance car.

mustang_guy · Dec 18, 2016

02gtnh said:
If Ford or Lincoln actually had another high performance car, you can bet they would share platforms as it's the smartest thing to do. But Ford doesn't and that is why the Mustang has its own and no other reason. For those who say the Fusion, that car is far from a performance car.

The GT says hello

02gtnh · Dec 18, 2016

mustang_guy said:
The GT says hello

Not even in the same league.:cheers:

mustang_guy · Dec 18, 2016

02gtnh said:
Not even in the same league.:cheers:

What do you call it when the camaro and vette do it

02gtnh · Dec 18, 2016

mustang_guy said:
What do you call it when the camaro and vette do it

I didn't know the GT was built every year and thousands were made. Come on now, they build 400 and you need to be a millionaire to get one. If they built these year after year and didn't have a price tag of near 1/2 million dollars, then I would agree. Since the first GT was built, how many years were they built after?

mustang_guy · Dec 18, 2016

02gtnh said:
I didn't know the GT was built every year and thousands were made. Come on now, they build 400 and you need to be a millionaire to get one. If they built these year after year and didn't have a price tag of near 1/2 million dollars, then I would agree. Since the first GT was built, how many years were they built after?

Still sounds like excuses and justification . :shrug: btw the first one didnt cost even close to half a million

Oh and they built 4000+ in one year

Sasuketr · Dec 18, 2016

Dominant1 said:
The monkey wrench is the zl1 will have mark up just like the gt-350 , the 1le for $42k thats a good price...wonder what the 2018 gt-500 will cost! Scat pack is $50k properly dressed! Hell cat out of reach, unless you buy a used one!

Thats what i thought too, but, the camaros are sitting at the dealer lots and nobody is buying. Meanwhile chevy is mass producing these cars like bubble gums including the zl1. I don't think zl1 will be as rare as the gt350. Looks like the visibility or the looks of the new gen camaro is not appealing for most of the crowd. Ford nailed the design and the engine on the gt350 and i can see why its a limited production. Zl1 and the 1le also doesn't look that bad in person lets be honest.

The problem though is as you mentioned, the gt500 pricing! My guess is 75 grand starting price. Now you have to go between a grand sport corvette, zo6 corvette, or a gt500! Can gt500 give mix performance as the vette? Well i hope so. So there is another way. Ford can drop the prices down on the gt350 and make the gt500 a real 65 grand car. That way, a potential zl1 buyer can also consider the gt500. Chevy is going way too cheap for the performance right now

02gtnh · Dec 18, 2016

mustang_guy said:
Still sounds like excuses and justification . :shrug: btw the first one didnt cost even close to half a million

Oh and they built 4000+ in one year

They built 4000 total for the first generation. They plan on 400-500 only for 2nd generation.

mustang_guy · Dec 18, 2016

02gtnh said:
They built 4000 total for the first generation. They plan on 400-500 only for 2nd generation.

So? Wouldn't you at that price? Oddly enough i believe all of them are already sold. Their recipe seems to work for them

68fbjjz109 · Dec 18, 2016

TexArmageddon said:
Just depends honestly.. there are what 3-4 cars sitting on the ATS platform. I think 3 but I don't feel up to looking. Regardless, that's three cars with different lights, brakes, wheel design, interior design, etc. For what? To barely outpace mustang sales with all three sales together? It's not like mustang hasn't outsold the whole ATS platform a few times either.

In this case, confining your market( camaro) to a small sedan ( dimensions etc..) didn't pay off for them in the slightest. Buying in bulk has always been the cheapest route for companies and I'm positive Ford is striking better deals than GM in that regard. In the end, it's only smart if the shared platform is agreed upon by the market and so far that isn't happening ... Not for the camaro or caddy line up..

Serves gm right for picking to axe Pontiac over GMC trucks.

CTS, ATS, Camaro.

It costs roughly a 1 billion dollars to build a car. It saves close to 400+ million to top hat a car. That is the only way to make a car that has lower volume in a profitable manner.

Ford is very aggressive with their suppliers, because they keep everything the same. That really lets them leverage volume. The only reason Mustang is unique is because Ford has commonized car powertrains, and they are FWD/AWD. Ford has no other dedicate RWD platform besides Mustang, which is still and evolution from other past platforms.

Fusion, Edge, MKZ, MKX are all on one platform here domestically. Taurus, Flex, Explorer, MKT, are all on one platform here domestically, IIRC these may be migrating to the smaller platform as well sometime in the 2018+ time frame.

Frankly I don't anything Alpha platform related hurt Cadillac. It was charging German like prices, and not delivering German like interior quality, and dealer experience.

There is a reason the Mustang is still steel intensive. Unlike the Alpha cars. It's cheap. This is what I love about the Mustang though. It is still very competitive in terms of weight and performance. If the Mustang was aluminum where the Alpha was, it would be 2011 all over again.

EcoVert · Dec 20, 2016

mustang_guy said:
What do you call it when the camaro and vette do it

zl1 Shelby wanna be:lol:

New Camaro is a generation ahead

TexArmageddon

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15GTBEN

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02gtnh

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mustang_guy

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02gtnh

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mustang_guy

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02gtnh

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mustang_guy

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Sasuketr

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02gtnh

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mustang_guy

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68fbjjz109

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EcoVert

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