Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

[WItoTX]

I agree with @Tomster here, and that would be the route I would go. Only question I would have is that last clause, losses due to negligence, including racing. Isn't that kind of what OP was doing? What is a plausible avenue around that?

Just my opinion, their reasons are crap. Supercar 3's are street legal, all sorts of show cars have roll cages, and a sticker saying HPDE isn't evidence of track use. Look at all those fast and furious mustangs covered in "racing" stickers. I'd be very curious as to the "definite track use" comment.

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[matthewr87]

It's not really a grey area. The car is a track car. It is advertised as such. If there is signs of abuse, ie) abnormal usage such as racing or time trials, or driver error (such as a money shift), that would be grounds for denial.

You have to understand that the knee jerk reaction will be to deny the warranty. The guy is doing his job by watching the bottom line. Iike any insurance adjuster, they will deny hoping you just go away.

This is not a grey area. They have to be able to prove the car was abused or used outside of its intended use. Period, dot.

I get that. But they made the determination they made (on the basis of track paraphernalia and citing a purposefully vague clause in the contract), and now the onus and financial burden is on OP to prove that they are wrong. Whole thing is unfortunate.

 

[Kachow]

I just went through this getting my motor replaced (that went out at Road Atlanta). My service advisor said it depends who you get from ESP and that ESP MADE them take pictures of the tires, engine bay, WHEEL WELLS to check for rubber and ANY signs of racing. She also said if there are any modifications at all to motor or tune - they will deny. You must keep engine stock (Which I know isn't always true). If the part fails - they have to prove said part failed due to track use.

It doesn't make any fucking sense because our manuals state about 10 times how the car can be used at the track. Tranmission made for it, coolers for track use, TRACK MODE, etc etc etc. They didnt pull ANY log data from the ecu.

I'm glad I took it home first and got rid of all the track evidence.

Your esp rep simply saw the modifications, tires, and figured it was an easy reason for them to deny. They hope you don't fight it.

Fight it! I would send back all the points in our manual and supplement where it states this car is used for racing applications and ask them to prove it was on track.

 

[Tomster]

I get that. But they made the determination they made (on the basis of track paraphernalia and citing a purposefully vague clause in the contract), and now the onus and financial burden is on OP to prove that they are wrong. Whole thing is unfortunate.

I would definitely consult an attorney. I would not have that attorney engage Ford ESP until all avenues have been exhausted. Attorneys fees may or may not be recoverable.

Again, if the OP is 100% correct, I would pursue it. If the car was damaged by abuse outside of the terms of use, then he is SOL.

 

[Tomster]

I just went through this getting my motor replaced (that went out at Road Atlanta). My service advisor said it depends who you get from ESP and that ESP MADE them take pictures of the tires, engine bay, WHEEL WELLS to check for rubber and ANY signs of racing. She also said if there are any modifications at all to motor or tune - they will deny. You must keep engine stock (Which I know isn't always true). If the part fails - they have to prove said part failed due to track use.

It doesn't make any fucking sense because our manuals state about 10 times how the car can be used at the track. Tranmission made for it, coolers for track use, TRACK MODE, etc etc etc. They didnt pull ANY log data from the ecu.

I'm glad I took it home first and got rid of all the track evidence.

Your esp rep simply saw the modifications, tires, and figured it was an easy reason for them to deny. They hope you don't fight it.

Fight it! I would send back all the points in our manual and supplement where it states this car is used for racing applications and ask them to prove it was on track.

It's a track car. An ESP warranty is not the same as the Ford warranty. I would have to look at the fine print.

 

[Tomster]

losses due to negligence, including racing

An HPDE is not racing. It is a high performance driver education event. That is a well known fact.

I'm just pointing that out, not necessarily aimed at you.

 

[Kachow]

It's a track car. An ESP warranty is not the same as the Ford warranty. I would have to look at the fine print.

Correct. OP is going through ESP. My advisor said now that my new motor has 3/36 through Ford - won't be a problem next time something "happens".

ESP raising prices and only going to become more stringent......

 

[mikedahammer]

100% I have never raced or time trialed the car or entered into a contest. When the motor gave out the car has never been the same since it was put back together.

As for the seats I have the original convenience package seats. As for the rims, I have the stock rims with cup2s and apex wheels with the SC3r’s. It just happens the 3rs were on the car.

The dealer always said that taking to the track for hpde does not void the warranty. The car ran fine besides the issues regarding the surging in 5th. I took it in to make sure the tone ring wasn’t out of whack again and to make sure nothing was going to break unexpectedly. The dealer said they were going to replace the trans since it was the second time it had been back for that. I didn’t ask for that nor did I think that was going to be the outcome when I brought it in.

No one told me safety in the car voids warranty. There was no discussion with me about the inspector coming and I never thought a claim would be denied if I purchased the warranty and operated within the rules. Ford can pull all the car data they want. I can even provide the car data from AIM.

Also I don’t feel comfortable changing the car back for service work and trying to hide that the car makes hpde appearances. It is ridiculous to me to have to do all that unless you have something to hide. I have no problem saying I drove the car under its limits, within spec, and had an issue with the trans.

This potentially impacts everyone with a ford esp and anyone who has also done an hpde event. In theory any issue you have the warranty can say it was from neglect/abuse because you took it to an hpde event. Imagine if you had to answer a question under penalty and purgery when you took your car in for repair if you ever did an hpde track day.

This situation reminds me of the good ol preexisting condition in health insurance.

 

[MikeR397]

It's a track car. An ESP warranty is not the same as the Ford warranty. I would have to look at the fine print.

Yep. I am pretty sure pre 2020 gt350 cars like my 2017 only exclude “timed trials and racing” language, which is NOT DE events. In 2020 the owners manual added “signs of abuse” to make a more vague denial reason. Regardless, Ford cannot market a car as a track weapon with manual suggestions how to use it as such and then deny warranty based on doing exactly that (de events). That said, Tomster is right the ESP warranty may have different language than oem ford warranty for exclusions. Even if they do, you have a solid legal argument they don’t apply.

I had to sue my tire/wheel company sold by ford when I purchased the car when they refused coverage on a damaged carbon wheel (which tomster later bought from me as is) bc the cup 2 outside tread was sub 3/32 as the language states. Once my lawyer got involved claiming class action fraudulent illusionary coverage as the cup 2 tire is 1/32 brand new on the outside line, they paid out about 50% more to settle the case. I could have gotten more going to trial, but have better things to do with my life. I just refused to be taken advantage of.

More on topic, I had the exact same issues in my 17 R. Highway surging in 6th gear (for almost 2 years with no tsb flange nut and multiple service attempts to fix) but ran fine in lower gears and on track (you can find my threads here). I eventually lost reverse and then all use of 5th gear before the trans overheated and went into limp mode. I have no aftermarket mods or roll cage but a long history of tire changes. Ford covered the trans ok, but the clutch was destroyed and they denied that bc it was a “wear item” even though it wasn’t worn, but destroyed from the failed transmission parts (giant crack in the bell housing and internal gears destroyed taking out the clutch). They told me if I requested an inspector they might deny the trans for “abuse” which is not a reason in my 2017 owners manual for de events. I had them do the trans, paid for the $3500 clutch myself, then lawyered up again and ford settled the bad faith case for many multiples above my out of pocket damages (and no I didn’t sign a non-disclosure). They don’t like class action threats for marketing fraud when they can make it go away for a relatively peanuts amount, but sadly (and I have a law degree but don’t practice) they will tell you to pound sand until you hire an attorney.

these experiences made me forego a GT500 order and a Raptor R order as well. I bought an Aston Martin for road fun and I’ve had a z06 deposit for 3 years now (getting close) as the new track car. I love my R and despite all this am considering a Lombard esp for 6 more years to keep doing de events, but I’m about done with them. Hell, esp just denied a claim last week on my raptor where the front spring broke and took out the tie rod and half shaft boot. They told me a “spring is a shock absorber and shocks are wear items not covered.” Fortunately this time a call to a supervisor fixed it when they realized the spring has a separate part number than the shock and the shock is fine, but it’s been 2.5 weeks without my truck and of course ford never has a loaner vehicle despite contract covering that. It’s ridiculous a competent customer has to prevent them from committing fraud by reading the contract to them. They are weasels and have lost my business on new vehicles until I see better treatment than what they are doing here.

Chevy does not do this shit, they specifically say their track prepped models (zl1 / z06) have warranty coverage on track. Porsche sure as hell doesn’t. Porsche gave a friend (all 2014 GT3 owners) a complimentry 10yr warranty on the motor when it became known for throwing rods. This happened to my friend in 2021 on track (scary bringing car down from 120mph with no brake booster) and they covered it all zero questions. My wife’s 14 cayenne got a similar 10yr complimentary warranty when it become known for transfer case issues. We are at 115k miles with no issues as i change fluids regularly, but it’s nice to know a manufacturer has your back and is not out to commit fraud avoiding warranty claims. Meanwhile, Ford acts like the 10speed transmissions have zero issues and shift like butter refusing to acknowledge the situation…

 

[MikeR397]

This potentially impacts everyone with a ford esp and anyone who has also done an hpde event. In theory any issue you have the warranty can say it was from neglect/abuse because you took it to an hpde event. Imagine if you had to answer a question under penalty and purgery when you took your car in for repair if you ever did an hpde track day.

Agree, this is a major coverage issue that needs to be resolved properly, but as I said above, I’m pretty sure you will need an attorney. If you have time, go to trial and set a precedent for us all and make them stop doing this fraud.

fyi, my advisors knows I do a lot of de events. I don’t ever directly say I do or confirm this on record, but fyi purgery only applies if you lie after being sworn into court to testify. I’d never volunteer a confirmation to a service advisor you ever see a track, and just mention “spirited legal driving” and you being an “enthusiast.”

Tell the esp you never raced, never did time trials, tell them to put in writing proof of this or at a minimum request their denial reason to be in WRITING. A competent attorney will have a field day with that. A written BS denial is like gold and will go a lot longer in court when they can’t say they didn’t “say that.”

 

[WItoTX]

OP, I'd get with Mike R. Seems like a viable path forward.

Good luck, sorry you have to deal with this.

 

[MikeR397]

OP, I'd get with Mike R. Seems like a viable path forward.

Good luck, sorry you have to deal with this.

I wish I had more to advise besides make them put their explanation in writing. This request itself will send them a message if they are at all competent. They need to state their grounds for abuse or will look hilarious in court under oath admitting they had no grounds and just fraudulently denied the claim by fabricating an explanation. A roll cage is not proof of racing. You know how many garage queen roll cage cars there are?

read your esp and ask them to point to the language supporting their denial, and what proof they have of it. Make sure that’s in writing too.

Sadly you are just a consumer and they will most likely tell you to pound sand on a big claim like this. Their view is you are unlikely to sue and force them to pay, and worst case they just pay what they should have in the first place.

one last Thing, I typed all this while on the elliptical at the gym on my phone, it’s not legal advice, you need your own attorney. I suspect the esp has a binding arbitration clause so change my “sue” to “arbitrate” but that’s not a bad thing either. They will have to pay the $3k arbitration filing fee (even if you lose), and likely your attorney fees if you win, and arbitration can subject them to extra damages too im pretty sure. Regardless,I’m not a practicing attorney and you will need one. They need to realize a fraudulent denial isn’t a free pass to only pay what is minimally required only if legal action is taken. An attorney will find a lot of other claims, and perhaps the fraud or something else and escape the confines of arbitration too. Arbitration provisions also cannot prevent formation of a class suit, and im quite sure you are not the first case here…

 

[mikedahammer]

I had a 40 minute conversation with the lead inspector at Ford Lincoln ESP. He said that I do not have a warranty. I have an extended service contract. That a warranty may cover track use but the extended service contract does not. He informed me that clause 7d states that they can deny a claim for neglect and abuse.

He further lamented that if your car visits a track you will automatically be denied any and all claims due to abuse and neglect. This is regardless of what happened at the track and how the car was used. That basically if the car is put into that environment you have zero rights as to future claims. He also stated that any cosmetic items that shows the car may have been used in that environment you will be denied.

I also learned that supercar 3r's under this ESP are racing slicks. I also learned that a race seat constitutes you having a racecar, a rollbar also constitutes a racecar, a sticker or marking on a window means you were racing and have a racecar. I further learned that they do not need any proof that it was used beyond its specifications and they will deny all claims under neglect or abuse if you drive it out of the city limits. If you read all of that then you should also know that racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

 

[K4fxd]

I furthe rlearned that they do not need any proof that it was used beyond its specifications and they will deny all claims under neglect or abuse if you drive it out of the city limits.

What? You can't leave the city?

Or is this some sarcasm.

With a service contract you need to find a shop that will read between the lines, so to speak. A dealer is not that place.

In another thread people were saying they like to put track stickers on their cars. This is one reason I do not.

 

[mikedahammer]

What? You can't leave the city?

Or is this some sarcasm.

With a service contract you need to find a shop that will read between the lines, so to speak. A dealer is not that place.

sarcasm. And I don’t think I can have another place service the car with the ford esp. I think the work can only be performed by a dealer.

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