Will the regular GT ever again have 460 or more HP without electric assist?

[young at heart]

I’m going out on a limb here and saying no, we’ve been to the mountaintop and we’re never going back. I believe 2021 was as good as it is ever going to get.

Now I’m not saying there won’t be GTs that are quicker and faster than a ‘21; I’m just saying that they’ll be ICEs with integrated electric motors and of course they’ll be heavier and more complex. Just like the Mach-E, you can have ‘em. I don’t care if they’re 10 grand cheaper and do 0-60 in 2 seconds. No matter to me.

I guess I’m an absolutist. I don’t like silicone enhanced body parts or blow-up mannequins either. No doubt this attitude is a by product of old-fartism but at least I know what I do and don’t like. I expect many will feel otherwise.

Edited to add: part of my reasoning for thinking 2021 was as good as it’s gonna get is the 10 HP slash for 2022. Who backs up, however seemingly minor the amount, then later surges forward again?

And by the way, I hope I’m wrong. I just don’t think I am.

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[LSchicago]

Well if the Gen 4 comes out maybe. I heard it was in development last year.

 

[Stangomydreams]

I know I peaked with my 21 gt cs vert. More = m1 or gt 500 and neither are the right package for me.

 

[KingKona]

With the new EPA regs, I doubt there will be a V8 S650.

We'll see what happens.

 

[Skye]

I can't see any increases in HP using ICE only or a combination of ICE and energy store, not with EPA and state regs tightening. If we hold at current levels I'd consider that a win.

I'm afraid we're going to see a gradual decline in HP over time, possibly the removal of a V8 in a coupe all-together (And I want to be found wrong on this).

As when the 60s were over and there was a long pause, we are ending another era now.

There are some great mechanical and technological ideas what could happen powertrain-wise. If those don't work out, I take comfort knowing there are millions of existing muscle cars with a healthy aftermarket to support.

 

[LSchicago]

With the new EPA regs, I doubt there will be a V8 S650.

We'll see what happens.

It's already been confirmed that the 5.0 will be around for the S650.

 

[ice445]

I choose to look at it differently, 460HP is already too much for the street as it is. It's an exciting power level with an acceptable overall MPG if you drive the car often. Not that I don't love overly fast cars, but man is it hard to justify running 600+ on a regular basis, lol.

 

[Firsttexan]

I remember the days when 450hp was readily available. Then 2 yrs later a V8 was lucky to have 200hp.

This is not those days. One thing for sure, we will have plenty of HP. Right now, in all forms and combinations.

In the future, who knows for sure?

But they will be quick an fast.

I agree with another poster. HP isn't the issue. Making a better car is.

 

[WildHorse]

Any Mustang hybrid is going to add a stupid amount of weight.
Lets say GT premium @ 4000 lbs + 15% for hybrid option 4600lbs.

 

[KeyLime]

I remember the days when 450hp was readily available. Then 2 yrs later a V8 was lucky to have 200hp.

If you're talking about hp off the show room floor, It was readily available pre the 1971 change from gross hp to net for auto specifications. For example, the 1971, 426 hemi was one of the few motors to quote both. It was rated at 425 gross but only 350 net. The lowly 307 in today's Mustang puts out 460 net. Yes, the EPA rules eventually ended up reducing compression ratios and hp. However, a lot of the actual loss was due to the way Detroit touted gross hp and got caught up in the ASE switch to net. Blaming the EPA was convenient, marketing friendly, and became folklore.

Granted the big bores had more torque. However, if Ford could make a N.A. motor in the +400 cubic inch range using today's technology it would probably crush an old school big block.

 

[Firsttexan]

If you're talking about hp off the show room floor, It was readily available pre the 1971 change from gross hp to net for auto specifications. For example, the 1971, 426 hemi was one of the few motors to quote both. It was rated at 425 gross but only 350 net. The lowly 307 in today's Mustang puts out 460 net. Yes, the EPA rules eventually ended up reducing compression ratios and hp. However, a lot of the actual loss was due to the way Detroit touted gross hp and got caught up in the ASE switch to net. Blaming the EPA was convenient, marketing friendly, and became folklore.

Granted the big bores had more torque. However, if Ford could make a N.A. motor in the +400 cubic inch range using today's technology it would probably crush an old school big block.

All kinds of voodoo number were being used back then to skirt insurance rates on HP cars and then they changed formulations. All in an effort confuse the buyer IMO.

Bottom line. US cars lost huge amounts of HP during that period.

That will not happen today.

Tell me how a 1976 210hp 7.5 to 1 compression 455 Pontiac would compare to a 10.75 to 1 455 HO in 1970. Using the 1970 formulations?

The Trans Am trick back in the late 70s was to use the Ram Air IV closed chamber heads and it raised the compression to 11 to 1. Ad cam and intake and exhaust and hello 455!

 

[KeyLime]

All kinds of voodoo number were being used back then to skirt insurance rates on HP cars and then they changed formulations. All in an effort confuse the buyer IMO.

Bottom line. US cars lost huge amounts of HP during that period.

That will not happen today.

Tell me how a 1976 210hp 7.5 to 1 compression 455 Pontiac would compare to a 10.75 to 1 455 HO in 1970. Using the 1970 formulations?

The Trans Am trick back in the late 70s was to use the Ram Air IV closed chamber heads and it raised the compression to 11 to 1. Ad cam and intake and exhaust and hello 455!

The stock 1970 455 was rated at 370 hp. Not close to "readily available" 450 hp. I'm not saying that there wasn't a lot of EPA induced hp loss. Just that the hp numbers were way overblown back in the day. You can't compare today's numbers to those back then. And the whole insurance thing was an excuse by the manufacturers to explain away bumping up against hp limits given the tech at the time. Seriously, the magic 425 max hp coverup in the 60's ad 70's was necessary but today State Farm and GEICO are totally cool with 750 horse Hellcats and GT500's? I think the schools are still pumping out lawyers.

I think we can both agree that there was a lot of marketing hype in the 60's and 70's. 450 net hp was not common.

 

[Firsttexan]

I think we can both agree that there was a lot of marketing hype in the 60's and 70's. 450 net hp was not common.

True.

I didn't say it was common. I said it was "readily available". It was. By special order from those that offered.

 

[silverbullet85]

I don't get all the worry of being down 10hp. I guarantee you couldn't feel the difference from 450 to 460. As far as future mustangs not sure, I have my 19 and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon.

 

[Kennysum1]

Not at the price range it lives at. Hell I think the platform is a steal for the amount you can buy a base GT at. She might not be a looker with any options but you still have a great platform to build from. The Coyote engine is amazing even in its stock form (minus those god damn oil pump gears).

I do not think there is another platform that can put out the power you can from the Coyote engine for 20k. Slap a twin turbo kit on it, upgrade the fuel system and change out the oil pump gears and you are legit making 800-1000 HP on E85. Do not get me wrong the power is going to be almost useless you until you upgrade a multitude of other items... but it is there and that block/rods/pistons can handle it.

Ford built and put in an awesome engine into a good looking car at an affordable price. Hopefully they continue that with the S650 and we can keep on building from there. I do not care what they rate it at from the factory as long as the internals are good.

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