ZL1 vs GT350 head to head next week!

[autobahnGT350]

Chevy Performance division is also pretty weak on the marketing level. Ford splits it up. NASCAR for instance was being partially sponsored by Ford Performance division last night for the 600. Chevy for instance throws the entire bowtie name at a marketing target.

Did you see the white C7 Corvette pacing the Indy 500 yesterday. Talk about marketing.

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[Zitrosounds]

For those who have not seen the video and would like to read the head to head. Randy Pobst even provided an explanation as to why the ZL1 was slower this time around. Either way, GT350R still wins.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...l1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/

 

[roygriffin2020]

Nobody says hey I have a 401a mustang.
All vehicles have standard and option codes. The point is GM's are dumb.

I really don't see how you can say letters and numbers are dumb. BMW has numbers and letters, Mercedes has numbers and letters, Audi has numbers and letters, Porsche has numbers and letters. All car manufacturers have letters and numbers.

Why are GM's numbers and letters dumb?

 

[nametoshowothers]

I really don't see how you can say letters and numbers are dumb. BMW has numbers and letters, Mercedes has numbers and letters, Audi has numbers and letters, Porsche has numbers and letters. All car manufacturers have letters and numbers.

Why are GM's numbers and letters dumb?

because they clearly have no rhyme or reason,

historically they caught on because of an order sheet coding, good for GM nerds to feel like they are cool because they know what they mean, but they are meaningless to the wider public.

A 3 series, a 911 is clearly understood by the civilized and uncivilized world.

if you have to ask, well lets just leave it there

 

[nametoshowothers]

The Camaro just give the lower models more options. You can get a base turbo 4 or V6, or a fully loaded one with leather. They don't limit what you can get or want in a model. I know many Mustang guys with v6 wish they could get more options. Options is usually a good thing, not a bad one.:shrug:

yup, no longer can get the V6:frusty::frusty::frusty: so really a strong point about wishing V6's came with more options

 

[roygriffin2020]

because they clearly have no rhyme or reason,

historically they caught on because of an order sheet coding, good for GM nerds to feel like they are cool because they know what they mean, but they are meaningless to the wider public.

A 3 series, a 911 is clearly understood by the civilized and uncivilized world.

if you have to ask, well lets just leave it there

Well, ok that's makes sense, I think. One more thing and I will leave it alone.

911 and ZL1 only differ by 2 letters

 

[lemers]

I really don't see how you can say letters and numbers are dumb. BMW has numbers and letters, Mercedes has numbers and letters, Audi has numbers and letters, Porsche has numbers and letters. All car manufacturers have letters and numbers.

Why are GM's numbers and letters dumb?

With BMW the numbers traditionally indicated different cars ( 2 Series, 3 Series, 5 Series, 7 Series) followed by the engine size ( 28, 30, 35), and finally a letter indicating other features (coupe, sedan, awd). Recently they changed it up and even numbered series for 2 doors and odd for 4 door, but I think BMW has broken that convention and its getting harder to follow lately. Which is becoming dumb.

It was progression that was easily explained to a non car enthusiast.


First both the Mustang and Camaro have too many "trims" in my opinion. They have turned things that should be "option packages" into trims with things that they seem to be advertising as trims are actually option packages. I'm looking at you 1LE and Performance package.

The whole 1LT, 2LT, 1SS, 2SS, ZR1, Z28 kinda makes it hard to follow. You have to really know the car and what comes with what you know which trim it is.


If I were king for the day the trims would be like this

Camaro Mustang
LT Ecoboost
SS GT
ZR1 GT350
Z28 GT500

Now the Camaro Zs and the Mustang Shelbys are only flopped from what they are built to perform against, but that's how the Z's were priced in the last generation.


Of course option packages would be premium package, sport package, electronic package, convenience package. Name them whatever you want but those are the basic packages most cars tend to have.

 

[roygriffin2020]

With BMW the numbers traditionally indicated different cars ( 2 Series, 3 Series, 5 Series, 7 Series) followed by the engine size ( 28, 30, 35), and finally a letter indicating other features (coupe, sedan, awd). Recently they changed it up and even numbered series for 2 doors and odd for 4 door, but I think BMW has broken that convention and its getting harder to follow lately. Which is becoming dumb.

It was progression that was easily explained to a non car enthusiast.


First both the Mustang and Camaro have too many "trims" in my opinion. They have turned things that should be "option packages" into trims with things that they seem to be advertising as trims are actually option packages. I'm looking at you 1LE and Performance package.

The whole 1LT, 2LT, 1SS, 2SS, ZR1, Z28 kinda makes it hard to follow. You have to really know the car and what comes with what you know which trim it is.


If I were king for the day the trims would be like this

Camaro Mustang
LT Ecoboost
SS GT
ZR1 GT350
Z28 GT500

Now the Camaro Zs and the Mustang Shelbys are only flopped from what they are built to perform against, but that's how the Z's were priced in the last generation.


Of course option packages would be premium package, sport package, electronic package, convenience package. Name them whatever you want but those are the basic packages most cars tend to have.

I know the term "LE" (Limited Edition) has been over used by so many manufacturers. It really means nothing now, as we know Camry LE and XLE are not limited editions, which are model designations.

 

[nastang87xx]

You have to remember the difference between a model, submodel, trim, and option too.

Model: Mustang
Submodel: Mustang GT
Trim: 401A Spec
Option: Car Cover

 

[Redline8250]

You have to remember the difference between a model, submodel, trim, and option too.

Model: Mustang
Submodel: Mustang GT
Trim: 401A Spec
Option: Car Cover

You seem to be the only one that's into the 401a, 901a etc. nobody else uses them but you.
Nobody with a gt350 says I have a 900a package. It's either base, tech, track or R. Or a GT performance pack etc.

 

[thePill]

You know what is really odd, Probst did Willow springs in the zl1 back in Dec. in 1:26.16. Look at the footage of both and can clearly see he wasn't pushing it as much as he did before. That's 1.74 sec slower. Very confusing.

It shouldn't confuse anyone...

The run at Willow was done in November @ 52 degrees, this run was done in 74 degree weather.

Even Randy can't explain WHY it lost that much time but thePill can.

MT would need to dyno EACH car before EACH test and after. You will see the obvious loss of power...


As for the corners? Told ya so...

As for the ZL1 Auto possibly falling victim to a GT350R? Told ya so...

The NA Mustang has eclipsed the NA Camaro and is now encroaching in HALO territory now.





The rest of the Camaro's future doesn't look good. The 2019 refresh was originally MORE than what you guys ended up with. The changes are minor.


Not much else to say, the Camaro continues to stack its MSRP against it. The style in general is exhausted and it still lacks the structural requirements needed to make use of the power.

Otherwise, it ended up exactly as I thought it would. 0.39 is 70 feet according to MT/Randy. The next question I have is what happens on Lap 2, 3? The Camaro falls back as any FI car would.

There's not much Chevy can do.

 

[lemers]

You seem to be the only one that's into the 401a, 901a etc. nobody else uses them but you.
Nobody with a gt350 says I have a 900a package. It's either base, tech, track or R. Or a GT performance pack etc.

And those are packages not trims levels.

 

[sublime1996525]

I feel we've gotten way off course here.

 

[Etchhead]

I feel we've gotten way off course here.

AGREE- now back to the head to head, another fantastic review by our #1 salesman Randy!

 

[Macfarland]

And those are packages not trims levels.

Correct. i think the corresponding naming is:

Model: Mustang
Submode: Mustang GT
Trim: Premium
Packages: 401A, Performance Package, security package
Options: car cover, premier interior, black roof, stripes, color

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