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[OH5GT 2 S550]

It isn't market value at all. Nor is it supply and demand. Two things are occurring. Dealers are cartels (because they hold the power of selling cars) and Collusion. The dealers are colluding with one another in artificially inflating prices.

It is supply and demand, the supply is low, as in 1964 made. The demand is high. If the demand wasnt high then you wouldnt see the 10-50K ADM. Plus I doubt that dealers in Indiana are calling dealers in Cali and saying hey lets ask for a rediculous mark up!

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[OH5GT 2 S550]

Damn right I'm upset!! That's not the story though.. Whomever believes that what evil, greedy, corrupt car dealers are doing is capitalism, then people are in denial. It IS collusion by textbook definition. If one can't discern that, then no wonder why people are so easily fooled.

Get over it already man!!! Car dealers arent all corrupt like you make them out to be. Many on here have built a good relationship with their dealer and received very good deals, myself included! If things went down the way you say they did, I feel for ya, but at some point you need to put on your big boy pants and move on!

 

[Brent302]

 

[PsyopGoat]

Get over it already man!!! Car dealers arent all corrupt like you make them out to be. Many on here have built a good relationship with their dealer and received very good deals, myself included! If things went down the way you say they did, I feel for ya, but at some point you need to put on your big boy pants and move on!

Are you kidding? There are a LOT of corrupt, dishonest or otherwise misleading dealers. I'm not going to broad brush every single one of them, but let's be real here.

How many of them give you a very professional looking "recommended service" manual, when in fact it includes all kinds of costly services that are not included in the user manual, i.e. they're completely unnecessary? How about rolled back odometers on used vehicles? That's more common than you might think. These are just a couple examples.

I wouldn't call dealer markup corruption but it certainly puts them on my never deal with, ever list. There are plenty of dealers who have a policy against dealer markup and they somehow stay in business. I want to reward those dealers and punish those financially who markup vehicles whenever they get the chance.

 

[PsyopGoat]

If dealers were really colluding with one another, do you really think that they would just do it on 1 very limited run vehicle? If dealers were out there artificially increasing prices why would they not just do that on every vehicle. If every dealer got together and said "no discounts on any car" that would drive their profits and screw us as consumers. Instead you have dealers that advertise and sell vehicles for a loss just to earn market share. What happens is dealers end up cutting their own throats trying to compete with each other...far from colluding genius!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/17/us-usa-antitrust-truecar-insight-idUSBRE9BG06G20131217

The Federal Trade Commission is investigating whether car dealers across the United States ganged up against TrueCar, agreeing among themselves not to do business with the California-based Internet company because it was driving down prices, said people who have received letters from the FTC including TrueCar Inc chief executive Scott Painter.


TrueCar and dealers are now on good terms, but the FTC is investigating whether potentially higher prices from the company's changes were the result of fair market pressure or illegal collusion. The probe was disclosed in the auto trade press in September.

 

[OH5GT 2 S550]

Are you kidding? There are a LOT of corrupt, dishonest or otherwise misleading dealers. I'm not going to broad brush every single one of them, but let's be real here.

How many of them give you a very professional looking "recommended service" manual, when in fact it includes all kinds of costly services that are not included in the user manual, i.e. they're completely unnecessary? How about rolled back odometers on used vehicles? That's more common than you might think. These are just a couple examples.

I wouldn't call dealer markup corruption but it certainly puts them on my never deal with, ever list. There are plenty of dealers who have a policy against dealer markup and they somehow stay in business. I want to reward those dealers and punish those financially who markup vehicles whenever they get the chance.

I never said there wasnt a lot of shady dealers, but there are a lot of good ones also!

 

[PsyopGoat]

I never said there wasnt a lot of shady dealers, but there are a lot of good ones also!

I think you'll be hard pressed to find any dealer who doesn't at some point in the buying process mislead unsavvy buyers in some way. I'm sure the truly great dealers exist, but they're exception and not the rule.

Maybe I'm just cynical.

 

[OH5GT 2 S550]

I think you'll be hard pressed to find any dealer who doesn't at some point in the buying process mislead unsavvy buyers in some way. I'm sure the truly great dealers exist, but they're exception and not the rule.

Maybe I'm just cynical.

All good...

 

[xTexasfightx]

I bought my 15 and my 12 from Leif Johnson ford. Made it simple and easy for me.

 

[JoeC1982]

I have a couple examples of cars that are being sold over MSRP that are used, look at the BMW 135i M that is selling over MSRP used and the Ford GT prices just keep going up. Should dealers or individuals be forced to sell them under MSRP because it's used? Of course not.

I have been working in dealerships for 11 years, always in the parts department and i have only seen a few cars that we added a "market adjustment" to and like everything else that is negotiable. The stuff i have problems with are the Vin Etch programs, "protection packages", etc that are added on at some dealers that provide no value at all to the customer.

People seem to forget that a car dealership is a business and it takes money to stay in open. If everybody got their cars and parts at cost it would be hard to pay employees, insurance, rent, and utilities. The "stealership" term bothers me because we work hard to help people out and be fair with our customers and keep them coming back.

I know there are some shady one's out there but if you come in with a good attitude you are more likely to get a discount than if you come in threatening to bash us on social media or on the manufacturer surveys.

 

[PsyopGoat]

I have a couple examples of cars that are being sold over MSRP that are used, look at the BMW 135i M that is selling over MSRP used and the Ford GT prices just keep going up. Should dealers or individuals be forced to sell them under MSRP because it's used? Of course not.

I have been working in dealerships for 11 years, always in the parts department and i have only seen a few cars that we added a "market adjustment" to and like everything else that is negotiable. The stuff i have problems with are the Vin Etch programs, "protection packages", etc that are added on at some dealers that provide no value at all to the customer.

People seem to forget that a car dealership is a business and it takes money to stay in open. If everybody got their cars and parts at cost it would be hard to pay employees, insurance, rent, and utilities. The "stealership" term bothers me because we work hard to help people out and be fair with our customers and keep them coming back.

I know there are some shady one's out there but if you come in with a good attitude you are more likely to get a discount than if you come in threatening to bash us on social media or on the manufacturer surveys.

There are plenty of dealerships who have a policy of not adding a "market adjustment" to their cars, and somehow they manage to stay open.

Nobody, including myself, have said dealerships should not be allowed to sell cars for a profit (setting aside the fact that most dealerships make more profit from residual business that comes from selling cars, services, etc.). Where I draw the line is dealerships adding dealer markup to hot cars.

What you said about coming in with a "good attitude" making it more likely I will get a discount may be true. But the thing is there is a 0% chance I will get a discount at your dealership. Knowing they mark up their vehicles when they can, I absolutely refuse to spend a dime there. There's no threats involved trying to get a discount. If I see a vehicle marked up, if I know you've marked up vehicles in the past or are willing to in the future, for me that's it. On to the countless other dealerships I could be dealing with.

 

[JoeC1982]

There are plenty of dealerships who have a policy of not adding a "market adjustment" to their cars, and somehow they manage to stay open.

Nobody, including myself, have said dealerships should not be allowed to sell cars for a profit (setting aside the fact that most dealerships make more profit from residual business that comes from selling cars, services, etc.). Where I draw the line is dealerships adding dealer markup to hot cars.

What you said about coming in with a "good attitude" making it more likely I will get a discount may be true. But the thing is there is a 0% chance I will get a discount at your dealership. Knowing they mark up their vehicles when they can, I absolutely refuse to spend a dime there. There's no threats involved trying to get a discount. If I see a vehicle marked up, if I know you've marked up vehicles in the past or are willing to in the future, for me that's it. On to the countless other dealerships I could be dealing with.

You are certainly quick to judge, the dealership i currently work for doesn't mark up any cars above MSRP. I just said i had seen it in the past and rarely at that. We are one of the few GTR certified dealers in our area and they are never marked up for market adjustment nor are any Nismo models.

I guess i don't see a problem with the market adjustment on a car that's actually numbered and limited production. I would have a problem with a dealer putting it on a car like a Hellcat or something that's just popular and not a numbered car. Again everything is negotiable, if a dealership had the car you wanted and it had a "market adjustment" that would stop you from making an offer? I have told many salespeople right off the bat i wasn't paying for the added stuff on the sticker and they understood and still got the deal done.

I just don't see how you can blacklist an entire dealership because their current sales manager wants to try and make some extra money. General and Sales Managers come and go and ownership is always pushing for higher profits so they are using an opportunity that is available to try and get it done. Its just part of doing their job no matter if they agree with it or not.

 

[Brent302]

 

[phil1336]

As a Consumer, one has a choice, Purchase or Pass. No one has a God given Right to be able to purchase a 1 of 1964 Limited Edition 2015 Mustangs at either MSRP or at a Discount. I got 2 Pair of Tickets for the 2015 NCAA Mens Basketball Final Four to be played in early April in Indianapolis, IN. Since I won them in the NCAA Lottery, if I choose to sell them at a Premium if I decide not to go, whats the problem? Next issue.....?

 

[Todd15Fastback]

As a Consumer, one has a choice, Purchase or Pass. No one has a God given Right to be able to purchase a 1 of 1964 Limited Edition 2015 Mustangs at either MSRP or at a Discount. I got 2 Pair of Tickets for the 2015 NCAA Mens Basketball Final Four to be played in early April in Indianapolis, IN. Since I won them in the NCAA Lottery, if I choose to sell them at a Premium if I decide not to go, whats the problem? Next issue.....?

Those will sell for pretty penny!

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