Why doesn't Ford just produce more GT350's? - Some light reading for the Newbs

[Belobog]

Coincidentally, the Ford GT500 didn't have anything that limited its production. It was simply a "limited car". Slapping more super chargers on, was easy, because there were plenty of them, to slap on. Subsequently, you do not slap on .2 liters to a 5.0, to make a 5.2 liter FPC engine. The process of building them is entirely different. It is a rare engine, with a patented process. You just have to accept that.

Nothing special about the production of the GT350 engine vs. the GT500.

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[fordpod]

Nothing special about the production of the GT350 engine vs. the GT500.

Correct but not what some guys wanna hear.

 

[cjgt350]

I sure haven't seen sticker around here at all. He was also quick to chime in at every opportunity with providing no substance to his speculations. Just arguments.....hmmm sounds oddly just like a new forum member here. Coincidence?:dnftt:

 

[Cruzinaround]

^Well it is a better breathing and higher revving FPC variant of the TiVCT Coyote. The Intake, Heads and Exhaust manifolds are pretty similar. Polished and ported and mated to a FPC. Its a very different Power+Torque band. The Bore is larger and the Plasma-Arc coating instead of sleeves allowed for a larger 5.2L displacement ala the Trinity at 5.8L Vs the traditional 5.4L.

It's been hinted at by Jamal Hameedi already. That the VooDoo will just bolt right into an existing Coyote based GT. And that there are a lot of similarities to the Coyote although the engine was redesigned. Being a TiVCT.... the similarities are a given.

Again...don't say that too much. Because people will just get on you about how the FPC is unique and different. Instead of thinking about it a little more and saying hmmm.. I can possibly fit a CPC in there change the firing order and pop on a Coyote exhaust. and BoOm. Less HP and More torque at a lower rev band. Oh Joy.

 

[EXP Jawa]

Nothing special about the production of the GT350 engine vs. the GT500.

Correct but not what some guys wanna hear.

You guys are right to that point - both were unique, lower volume engines that had a supplier base geared around a low- volume production run. Both would've been subject to the same sort of limitations in increasing the supply. So, you're still making the same circular argument, and this doesn't change anything. It doesn't bolster whatever argument you're making.

Pod, you still seem to forget that there's also a car's worth of other unique parts that distinguish these cars from the plain GT. Not merely a unique engine. Even if Ford did suddenly have the supply to build 50K SVT engines, they still would have supply limitations in all of the unique bodywork, the unique wheels, the unique driveline, the unique trim, any unique interior, etc. If the supply is short on any one part that is present in 100% of Shelby models (ie not an option), the volume of the whole can't be increased. This a primary point that others have been trying to get across. I don't know why you either don't get or are ignoring this. A car is a complex system, with complex logistics behind it. A high performance niche model is exponentially more so.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Nothing special about the production of the GT350 engine vs. the GT500.

Except that both the GT500 engines used had been used in Ford vehicles before, the F150, and a supercharger slapped on for the GT500 (of course other minor differences to strengthen the engine overall but still a F150 engine at heart). Neither the 5.4 nor 5.8 were new to the Ford lineup from scratch with 99% unique parts (except i believe the alternator and 1 or 2 other parts/pumps) like the 5.2 is.


In general I'm not sure why people are having such a time getting it. COULD Ford have started 2 years ago and had the parts to build 10k 350s this year? Sure. Will they? Absolutely no. They're not building this car to sit on the lots.

Yes, the GT500 happened ONE year out of the past 8 years (in 2007 building over 10k); we get the only one example people keep raising. 1 model year in 8 for all of the special editions (Boss, GT500, Bullet, etc) doesn't mean much overall. We have no clue if it took 2-2.5 year to sell all of those 2007s they built too. Ford already admitted that making that many 2007s was a mistake, hence why it never went over 5,200 any other model year since the 2007.

Clearly if they wanted to make 10k 2008 or 2009s too which were a very slight refresh they could have since they did the year or 2 earlier; and they didn't for a reason. The GT500 never went back to over 5,200 since that first year by production numbers published. So trying to use 1 model year to represent the last 10 years and going forward and saying it over and over is like a 4 year old asking if we're there yet. We got it the first time and it doesn't mean anything now nor going forward.

 

[Cruzinaround]

^TiVCT is not new to Ford. The VooDoo is a FPC-TiVCT. It's roots are in the CPC-TiVCT Coyote/Roadrunner platforms.

 

[fordpod]

Except that both the GT500 engines used had been used in Ford vehicles before, the F150, and a supercharger slapped on for the GT500 (of course other minor differences to strengthen the engine overall but still a F150 engine at heart). Neither the 5.4 nor 5.8 were new to the Ford lineup from scratch with 99% unique parts (except i believe the alternator and 1 or 2 other parts/pumps) like the 5.2 is.


In general I'm not sure why people are having such a time getting it. COULD Ford have started 2 years ago and had the parts to build 10k 350s this year? Sure. Will they? Absolutely no. They're not building this car to sit on the lots.

Yes, the GT500 happened ONE year out of the past 8 years (in 2007 building over 10k); we get the only one example people keep raising. 1 model year in 8 for all of the special editions (Boss, GT500, Bullet, etc) doesn't mean much overall. We have no clue if it took 2-2.5 year to sell all of those 2007s they built too. Ford already admitted that making that many 2007s was a mistake, hence why it never went over 5,200 any other model year since the 2007.

Clearly if they wanted to make 10k 2008 or 2009s too which were a very slight refresh they could have since they did the year or 2 earlier; and they didn't for a reason. The GT500 never went back to over 5,200 since that first year by production numbers published. So trying to use 1 model year to represent the last 10 years and going forward and saying it over and over is like a 4 year old asking if we're there yet. We got it the first time and it doesn't mean anything now nor going forward.

These 350s are going to average around $60,000 a throw. That is HUGE money for a Mustang regardless of what it can do, what it can compete with etc. It is still a Ford Mustang and there are certain realities at play that anyone who has been involved with this interest and hobby well know. Ford knows that they will not sell 10,000 units at these prices this time around. 5,000 likely a reasonable estimate of what they can sell in a year without incentives. They will build a few more if they need too.

It is no more complicated than that my friend. Why does this seem to be so perplexing and complicated for some of the obvious rookies here. Just let play out. There will be enough for anyone who is willing and financially capable of purchasing . Not difficult, no big deal.

 

[w3rkn]

Nothing special about the production of the GT350 engine vs. the GT500.

Yes there is... and it has already been explained here.

There was NOTHING special about the GT500 engine, you could part it out from a catalog. Lets not forget the manufacturing process is much different too. I hate people who talk out their asses. BTW, the GT500 was hand assembled, not hand built.

 

[w3rkn]

These 350s are going to average around $60,000 a throw. That is HUGE money for a Mustang regardless of what it can do, what it can compete with etc. It is still a Ford Mustang and there are certain realities at play that anyone who has been involved with this interest and hobby well know. Ford knows that they will not sell 10,000 units at these prices this time around. 5,000 likely a reasonable estimate of what they can sell in a year without incentives. They will build a few more if they need too.

It is no more complicated than that my friend. Why does this seem to be so perplexing and complicated for some of the obvious rookies here. Just let play out. There will be enough for anyone who is willing and financially capable of purchasing . Not difficult, no big deal.

GT350 start under $50k.

The rare first years are all high dollar, because there are only 137 of them in 2015 (& the 2016 are not even made yet). Ford is not selling them for that astronomical price, the dealer is. You keep mixing the two up..

You are clearly trolling this community, as nobody can be this dense and obtuse and not understand supply and demand. And dealers capitalizing on the uber interest of this car, using the supply & demand to maximize their profits.



Ford knows they will sell their cars at their prices... the dealers will loose their incentive to ADM as the demand drops. Somehow, You truly believe Ford is selling GT350s for $80k is laughable. The Dealers are. Ford doesn't see that money the dealer does. Dealers are not owned by ford.

Face it, you have not been able to rebuttal one of my posts and just keep trolling. And now you are starting to regurgitate the things we have been telling you from the beginning... to let the market demand play out and in a year there will be enough to go around.




edit:
BTW... who is ADM drum beating..?
Once again it is only you who doesn't understand ADM. We are only defending that fact you do not understand manufacturing and why Ford can't snap to attention and make more because You demand it.

 

[fordpod]

GT350 start under $50k.

The rare first years are all high dollar, because there are only 137 of them in 2015 (& the 2016 are not even made yet). Ford is not selling them for that astronomical price, the dealer is. You keep mixing the two up..

You are clearly trolling this community, as nobody can be this dense and obtuse and not understand supply and demand. And dealers capitalizing on the uber interest of this car, using the supply & demand to maximize their profits.



Ford knows they will sell their cars at their prices... the dealers will loose their incentive to ADM as the demand drops. Somehow, You truly believe Ford is selling GT350s for $80k is laughable. The Dealers are. Ford doesn't see that money the dealer does. Dealers are not owned by ford.

Face it, you have not been able to rebuttal one of my posts and just keep trolling. And now you are starting to regurgitate the things we have been telling you from the beginning... to let the market demand play out and in a year there will be enough to go around.




edit:
BTW... who is ADM drum beating..?
Once again it is only you who doesn't understand ADM. We are only defending that fact you do not understand manufacturing and why Ford can't snap to attention and make more because You demand it.

I could care less about ADMs. All of us here who have been through this stuff multiple times over the past decades are saying is that there will ultimately be enough GT350s to go around. We are not rewriting the Constitution or changing the Earth"s axis of rotation. It is simply amazing to observe the hostility that such a simple concept can evoke. You don't agree then fine. We still share a common interest in these cars and that will always be a good thing. You may want to take a second look at the perception that you clearly have a death grip on. I am not the only one here telling you the same thing.

None of this should be cause for personal attacks. I agree to disagree with you sir. Have a nice day and enjoy your GT350 if you get one!

 

[cjgt350]

What is amazing is we state the same you do essentially then you disagree with us. All we have said is if you want a 2016 now then ADM most likely comes into play. Will 2017 be a repeat of 2016MY?... who knows. Will the GT350 be a two year model run?...who knows

FACT:There is not enough GT350's to meet the current demand.
FACT: No dealer allocations=no customer placed orders.

ADM is a personal choice where an individual has to weigh that decision based on the best information at hand to include availability, production speculation, etc.

There will be enough to go around, there too expensive to remain that high in demand....all YOUR speculation. All you state is well that is the way it has always been refusing to consider other new factors or points of view. You have that right to YOUR opinion. But you just can't stop there....you have to insult, badger, etc every post that doesn't see it YOUR way....it is just ridiculous and I for one am surprised the admins haven't given you a time out yet.

 

[EXP Jawa]

What is amazing is we state the same you do essentially then you disagree with us.

That's why I said before that he as basically arguing in circles, and it wasn't clear what his argument was anymore. Going back to what I posted yesterday, "I'd like to have an argument please..."

 

[Belobog]

FACT:There is not enough GT350's to meet the current demand.
.

This is not confirmed. Customers have been placing orders for multiple cars without the intent to purchase, and many dealerships have unsold allocations.

 

[blondie]

This is not confirmed. Customers have been placing orders for multiple cars without the intent to purchase, and many dealerships have unsold allocations.

yeah there is no way to tell if that is true because dealers marked up right away without even selling any. I had one dealer tell me to call back becuase they had not decided how much over sticker they were going to charge. that means i was the first to call and ask and then they decided this shelby should cost what the last one did. who knows what the demand is. my experience has been just that, people at dealerships, even the "managers" don't know a thing about what they actually sell there.

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