Whipple GT350 Final Draft Pulls

[Angrey]

Got the heavy lifting done this afternoon/tonight.

Car made 1082 and 863 on 19 lbs of boost and 21 degrees max timing (very very end). Shorting the redline at 8k.

Made 1045 and 857 on 19 degrees. (only 8k redline) So the car is still picking up good power/degree and loving what we throw at it, so we could run timing out more but sticking to my "overdesign and underutilize" philosophy, I asked to stop there and just start cleaning up some issues with the tip in/initial hit and cleaning up some of the curve.

IAT's were awesome with coolant at 170. Last run ended at 106F and the run prior was 99F (92 ambient). What's weird is the IAT's would spike and then drop back down (getting the flow across the intercooler).

The major item I wanted to fully test was the fuel system.

We're ironing out some whipple/PD blower related issues on the hit. I'm getting ready to finalize my fuel system thread where I walk through the entire setup. On initial throttle, the boost jumps to 16 psi in a traffic jam, then the motor rushes to catch up so boost dips slightly, then rises to 19 lbs and never catches the motor again (through 8k).

The problem we're seeing is that A/F drops to low 11s, then rises slightly to mid 12's between 3-4k then drops back to low 11's again. The sudden on rush of boost is spiking the regulator, the regulator is then allowing a rush of fuel in increased pressure, the return side sensor is seeing a spike so the pumps are momentarily pausing and then they quickly catch up and the A/F is smooth from there out. It's not a huge issue that low in the rpm range, but something we're working on smoothing out. Otherwise, the brushless DW's and Fuelab Electronic regulator are working as I'd hoped. They go to low speed on idle and they only spin up when the regulators senses a drop in return flow. Very efficient. When cruising I'm drawing approximately 16 amps between the two of them. I currently have no siphon system but am lifting fuel from the passenger side with a pair of DW low pressure lift pumps that each draw about 3.5 amps. So in total at idle and low load, the entire system is drawing about 23 amps. At 75 psi (55 base pressure + 20 lbs of boost index) the system is capable of supporting over 1200 to the wheels on E85.

For comparison, a single TI 285 draws about 18.5 amps at idle pressure (55 psi) and flows roughly the same as the DW440, but loses 40 lph or more to the syphon system.

All in all a very encouraging and sigh of relief test session for the entire setup, but also the fuel system and temps were great too. I'm pretty happy. Hopefully have final dial in and reports Monday or Tuesday.

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[Angrey]

Whipple Gen5 Shelby GT350....1100hp ??? - YouTube

 

[olaosunt]

Very nice
what pulley ?

 

[Angrey]

2.75 no over drive. 10 rib

 

[olaosunt]

2.75 no over drive. 10 rib

Thanks …and no slip ?
My grip tech slipped badly on the street with my 2.9 — also GT 350 .
I tried to make a drag strip pass and it would just break the belt … I run a 3.375 now and happy with it .

I am also assuming built engine ?

Link to your fuel thread ? Will be following .


Having some issues lately since I switched to the 295’s in a division X hat .
Not sure it’s related to the pumps as initial WOT logs looked good so maybe a coincidental .

 

[Angrey]

Thanks …and no slip ?
My grip tech slipped badly on the street with my 2.9 — also GT 350 .
I tried to make a drag strip pass and it would just break the belt … I run a 3.375 now and happy with it .

I am also assuming built engine ?

Link to your fuel thread ? Will be following .


Having some issues lately since I switched to the 295’s in a division X hat .
Not sure it’s related to the pumps as initial WOT logs looked good so maybe a coincidental .

We didn't see any signs of slip on the pulls, but again, once the motor was catching up, it stayed ahead of the blower through the pull. Once it plateaus at 19, it stays there through redline. Between the 10 rib and the high flow, I think we're okay. And we're shorting at 8k. Higher we might run into trouble but who knows.

I was really worried about the beta on this fuel setup but other than the initial hit hiccup, it handled nearly 1100 wheel with no props.

The good thing about the brushless, particularly the DW400 is that it can be intermittently boosted to 22v and constantly boosted at 18v. So there's plenty of room to grow with a booster and unlike the brush style, they're built for use and abuse.

I'm gonna try to do a very detailed write up and video. Ironically, when I spoke with fuelab, they made an in tank brushless setup for the s197 that could handle 1800 hp. But no one bought it. I begged them to do another for the S550 but they said they sunk the r/d and money into the previous setup and no one wanted it. I told them they were literally 10 years too early.

 

[olaosunt]

We didn't see any signs of slip on the pulls, but again, once the motor was catching up, it stayed ahead of the blower through the pull. Once it plateaus at 19, it stays there through redline. Between the 10 rib and the high flow, I think we're okay. And we're shorting at 8k. Higher we might run into trouble but who knows.

I was really worried about the beta on this fuel setup but other than the initial hit hiccup, it handled nearly 1100 wheel with no props.

The good thing about the brushless, particularly the DW400 is that it can be intermittently boosted to 22v and constantly boosted at 18v. So there's plenty of room to grow with a booster and unlike the brush style, they're built for use and abuse.

I'm gonna try to do a very detailed write up and video. Ironically, when I spoke with fuelab, they made an in tank brushless setup for the s197 that could handle 1800 hp. But no one bought it. I begged them to do another for the S550 but they said they sunk the r/d and money into the previous setup and no one wanted it. I told them they were literally 10 years too early.

Thanks again ?

Missed the 10 rib part … mine is a 6 rib .

So is this returnless ?

 

[Cory S]

The good thing about the brushless, particularly the DW400 is that it can be intermittently boosted to 22v and constantly boosted at 18v. So there's plenty of room to grow with a booster and unlike the brush style, they're built for use and abuse.

Except the DW400 is a brushed motor pump.

 

[Angrey]

Except the DW400 is a brushed motor pump.

Sorry 440

 

[Cory S]

Sorry 440

Badass pump right there.

 

[Angrey]

Thanks again ?

Missed the 10 rib part … mine is a 6 rib .

So is this returnless ?

return style, but with Fuelab's patented electronic regulator. The regulator sends PWM signal to the DW440 controller. It has a pressure diaphragm on the return fitting of the regulator and it recognizes when return line pressure drops and tells the pumps to pick up the pace. When return line pressure rises, it knows the rails are drinking less so it tells the pumps to chill out.

It's working exactly as it should except the regulator is also indexed for boost.

We're seeing boost jump from vacuum to 16 lbs almost instantly (less than 3k) so the sudden increase in pressure is causing a jump in the return sensor, which is in turn, telling the pumps to relax momentarily, then as the motor starts to pick up steam, the return flow drops and then the pumps jump back into action.

I'm fairly certain it's the boost index and sudden slam of boost that's causing our issues. Again, the lambda isn't catastrophic, we're moving from low .70's to low .80's and then back to low/mid .70's.

The good news is on this setup, the return bleed is minimal and also maintained to be a low level so the vast majority of the pump effort goes to creating adequate pressure and flow to the rails. I simply repurposed the 6AN OEM feed line to be my return.

 

[olaosunt]

return style, but with Fuelab's patented electronic regulator. The regulator sends PWM signal to the DW440 controller. It has a pressure diaphragm on the return fitting of the regulator and it recognizes when return line pressure drops and tells the pumps to pick up the pace. When return line pressure rises, it knows the rails are drinking less so it tells the pumps to chill out.

It's working exactly as it should except the regulator is also indexed for boost.

We're seeing boost jump from vacuum to 16 lbs almost instantly (less than 3k) so the sudden increase in pressure is causing a jump in the return sensor, which is in turn, telling the pumps to relax momentarily, then as the motor starts to pick up steam, the return flow drops and then the pumps jump back into action.

I'm fairly certain it's the boost index and sudden slam of boost that's causing our issues. Again, the lambda isn't catastrophic, we're moving from low .70's to low .80's and then back to low/mid .70's.

The good news is on this setup, the return bleed is minimal and also maintained to be a low level so the vast majority of the pump effort goes to creating adequate pressure and flow to the rails. I simply repurposed the 6AN OEM feed line to be my return.

So are you going to be selling the set up ?

If so please make one to fit a Fox /coyote swap

 

[Angrey]

So are you going to be selling the set up ?

If so please make one to fit a Fox /coyote swap

Haha, no, but I'll help develop a detailed bill of materials. I'm not looking to make money, I have a good paying day job. I just wanted a fuel system that would support a ton of horsepower that doesn't require 1/2 tank of fuel and doesn't boil the fuel with 40 to 60 amps on long trips. The durability of the brushless is just a bonus.

Basically I wanted a fuel system for a high hp car that doesn't have the typical limitations of a trailer queen or limited street car.

I didn't want to have to choose between fearing a WOT (at less than 1/2 tank) or heating the fuel when it gets down to 1/8 tank or having to fill up a zillion times on a long trip, etc. Essentially a high hp return system that behaves like OEM.

Radium now offers an in tank hat that will accommodate the BKS 1000 (veyron pump) and I think that pump boosted will support over 1200 rear as well (all by itself).

Fuelab has refined their offerings to more brushless in tanks now. Like cordless power tools, if combustion engines survive long enough, brush style motors for pumps will be inferior going forward with a lot of the fuel players starting to come into the market with more options and offerings. Deatschwerks is now offering a big in line brushless.

I was just sick of hearing "that's just the way it is."

 

[Angrey]

Haha, no, but I'll help develop a detailed bill of materials. I'm not looking to make money, I have a good paying day job. I just wanted a fuel system that would support a ton of horsepower that doesn't require 1/2 tank of fuel and doesn't boil the fuel with 40 to 60 amps on long trips. The durability of the brushless is just a bonus.

Basically I wanted a fuel system for a high hp car that doesn't have the typical limitations of a trailer queen or limited street car.

I didn't want to have to choose between fearing a WOT (at less than 1/2 tank) or heating the fuel when it gets down to 1/8 tank or having to fill up a zillion times on a long trip, etc. Essentially a high hp return system that behaves like OEM.

Radium now offers an in tank hat that will accommodate the BKS 1000 (veyron pump) and I think that pump boosted will support over 1200 rear as well (all by itself).

Fuelab has refined their offerings to more brushless in tanks now. Like cordless power tools, if combustion engines survive long enough, brush style motors for pumps will be inferior going forward with a lot of the fuel players starting to come into the market with more options and offerings. Deatschwerks is now offering a big in line brushless.

I was just sick of hearing "that's just the way it is."

By the way, the fox or anything with a non-saddle tank is easy. It's the saddles that complicate matters and essentially having to deal with two tanks (connected by a hump in between). Having a rear sump to run an inline or having the room of a solid axle style tank hat makes things much much easier.

 

[Angrey]

Cam clean up. Still at 21 degrees, low .70's Lambda. Street logs and cleanup (hopefully today, it's been raining its proverbial ass off here in South Florida, so if tuner can get a dry spell, try to finalize a bunch of drivability stuff, rev hang, A/C torque tables, clean up the initial hit, smooth out some of the boost reverb, etc). Torque is honestly mind blowing. It's pulling 600 ft-lbs before 3k rpms.

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