Upscaling the Mustang

[Mechanic]

I saw this article that made me laugh complaining about how the Mustang is unrefined and now that they are going into Europe it "NEEDS" to go more upmarket for 2015. Since when was this a requirement to selling in Europe? It just reminded me of that top gear episode with clarkson ranting and crying about how the GT500 is unrefined, feels cheap, unsophisticated, poorly made, etc... then he compliments the European Focus.... so basically even Ford knows it's cars are shit in the US and need to be better when selling in Europe?

I find this funny because isn't the whole point of a muscle car lack of refinement? It's not meant to drive or feel like a BMW or Benz. Isn't that what the LincolnStang is for?

And I thought the whole point of selling in Europe was to expand its market... which to me means going for the low hanging fruit (meaning cheaper), not competing in a really crowded segment with the likes of Audi, BMW, etc that dominate over there.

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[GTsquid]

I feel like I've had this debate a million times with friends and acquaintances. Look... the fact that the Mustang can even be seen in the same light as BMWs and other much more expensive cars is a testament to Ford's ability to dial in and optimize some of its pretty inferior and outdated technology (like the iRS). It is its performance that has the attention of consumers who are shopping for cars in the 50k range, but in order to close the deal, they need the other component - the "look and feel" of the car.

You also have to understand that the Mustang in Europe is not going to be the same inexpensive bluecollar working man's best pound for pound fighter like it is in the states. In Europe, the combination of higher taxes, gas consumption and insurance makes a big V8 priced in the league of cars with much better fit and finish.... so it becomes a question of expectations for that price.

 

[fastback69]

I find this funny because isn't the whole point of a muscle car lack of refinement?

Huh? Is that why you bought one, lack of refinement?

 

[Melino]

Hah Ford's idea of going upmarket is putting in IRS and maybe a new touch panel! I've learned not to expect too much from them in terms of the finer touches. I wouldn't worry (if you are) that we're getting some overpriced exotic or anything.

 

[JackHoya]

It's not about selling in Europe. It's about selling, period. Take a look at the '13 Fusion that went significantly more upscale in the look and feel in just about every category.... the result = record sales.

Guaranteed if Ford takes the Mustang upmarket, it'll be a result of focus group studies and consumer research. They don't just do this stuff on a hunch, it's risky business. As quoted in this article, Ford conducted consumer clinics that convinced them taking the Fusion upscale would work. Whether or not it will also work for potential Mustang buyers is a different question of course.

Consumer clinics convinced skeptics inside Ford that Mays's risky strategy to take the frumpy Fusion upscale was working. Potential buyers compared it to a Maserati and a Jaguar.

"There was all sorts of tension up until that point," Mays said. "But once the clinics were over, everybody was happy."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130525/OEM03/305259999#axzz2UWMWUQFb

 

[MustangDizzle]

I saw this article that made me laugh complaining about how the Mustang is unrefined and now that they are going into Europe it "NEEDS" to go more upmarket for 2015. Since when was this a requirement to selling in Europe? It just reminded me of that top gear episode with clarkson ranting and crying about how the GT500 is unrefined, feels cheap, unsophisticated, poorly made, etc... then he compliments the European Focus.... so basically even Ford knows it's cars are shit in the US and need to be better when selling in Europe?

I find this funny because isn't the whole point of a muscle car lack of refinement? It's not meant to drive or feel like a BMW or Benz. Isn't that what the LincolnStang is for?

And I thought the whole point of selling in Europe was to expand its market... which to me means going for the low hanging fruit (meaning cheaper), not competing in a really crowded segment with the likes of Audi, BMW, etc that dominate over there.

Lack of refinement has been the car's problem for years. Unrefined is fine for a classic car, but not for modern vehicles. Going "upscale" and making the car more luxurious with better comforts and ride quality can all be enhanced without really increasing the car's cost, especially in the mustang.

By today's standards, and even the standard of 2005, my car's (2007) interior is seriously pathetic at how poorly the interior pieces fit together. That's not a question of having to spend more money. It's a question of diligence in designing to the highest standards of quality and ensuring a proper fit and finish given the materials you are using. I know the 2010+ was a great improvement, but they need to take it a step further.


If you really think keeping the car unrefined in 2015 for the sake of musclecar "character" is a good idea, then I think you've completely missed the part where consumers these days don't put up with subpar products.

The 2013 fusion interior is nice. It still doesn't feel like a BMW or an Audi inside but that's because of price point.

Honestly, my Dad's 2010 Cts-v was was significantly inferior to my mom's BMW interior quality, fit and finish. Even Cadillac lacks behind european quality.


Nobody wants to buy a new car these days and instantly find and point out blaringly obvious missteps in attention to detail.

 

[Interceptor]

I agree with this post above.

Here is my 2c: I work for the German branch of an American company. We both develop products for our individual markets, and naturally, we also share products from time to time. Now, the majority of American products we are asked to introduce to the German market needed at least a major makeover, sometimes a complete rebuild. The reasons mostly are quality and useability issues.

The American products we get always look good on the outside, have nice surfaces and a good feature list, but when you take them in your hands and start to use them, you notice that there is little substance behind the surface. As a conclusion, it appears to me that a "quality product" to an American is something which has a lot of good features and looks good. In contrast, a "quality product" for a European (speaking for the Germans here) is something which is built well in every single detail and also down to the very core. It doesn't need to have an endless feature list, but when you use it, you must feel it was engineered from the ground up to be a quality product, and that a lot of thought has gone into even the tiniest detail.

That is what Clarkson is on about when he criticises American build quality. He criticises that things look good on the surface, but start to fall apart (figuratively) as soon as you lay a hand on them. That there is no substance behind the shiny surface. That of course does not expand to all branches of engineering, and also he does not say that Americans are not able to engineer quality products. However, I personally know two people who have had the current V8 Mustang as a car. Both said that it has a lot of power, which is nice. And then, both sold the car much sooner than they initially intended to, because they said it is so hard to control on a wet road even if you just want to drive normally that they were too scared to do so, which in turn meant that they didn't want to live with that car. So on the surface, you get a car with loads of power for little money, which seems very attractive to any car enthusiast. Nonetheless, if it turns out that you can not really use that power and that it is rather disturbing than helping in daily traffic, there is little point in having that car. That is not even getting into the build quality of the interior which I believe is the biggest issue of the current Mustang for global consumers. As a product for the European market, the Mustang has not been officially sold here simply because it is not refined enough for the European market. I believe that will change for the 2015 model as Ford Europe has had many successes there in recent years and Ford as a whole now understands what global consumers expectations are.

 

[Diesel]

I think you guys are the only ones worried about what Europe customers prefer better. This is an USA car and Ford knows it.

 

[MustangDizzle]

I think you guys are the only ones worried about what Europe customers prefer better. This is an USA car and Ford knows it.

Wrong, I made my statement not even thinking about european buyers. Honestly, I don't really care.

You think the American consumer these days just doesn't care about a well built car? Come on now.

I am American, and I'll straight up say it again, my 2007 GT's interior is of terrible quality. I'm not taking about material choice, or overall aesthetics. The big picture is fine for the $$. The seams where things come together are terrible. Misaligned gaps, huge gaps, the instrument cluster housing is literally peeling off, revealing white plastic underneath, sharp edges of plastics exposed, etc. Way too many bs things.

Again, the 2010 made great improvements, but they still have a ways to go.

That lack of detail is unacceptable to me now. When I first got the car, I didn't care. Now I'm older, have much more money, and I'd like to own a 2015, but if the overall build of the car isn't what I expect it to be, then I have no problem spending 20k more for a different car. I don't expect an ultra luxury interior, I just expect everything to fit together and align properly, using nice surface finishes. Misaligned black plastic covering the entire thing just won't cut it.

 

[Mechanic]

But is'nt that the problem? You're saying you have no problem spending 20K more for a different car with better finish if Ford can't get it done. Not all of us have that option. And Ford's already shown that they can't do it at that price. In fact, no one can. Can you name a car that performs like a Mustang that is really much more refined or sophisticated? It's like everyone wants the Boss 302 performance with a BMW interior at the price of a GT and it just isn't happening. You put that kind of quality interior with all its nice trim with the Boss performance and you're looking at a 70k car.

I'm also talking about more than the interior. When I hear refined and sophisticated I immediately think less fun to drive. Part of Clarkson's complaint was that his body felt like mush after that long drive in the GT500. Seriously? If you want a fast but smooth and comfortable/quiet ride, go with a BMW or Mercedes. I WANT it to be raw and unrefined when I drive it. I want to feel the road and the car rumble when I give it gas and a lot of the more refined European cars simply dont drive like that.

 

[MustangDizzle]

But is'nt that the problem? You're saying you have no problem spending 20K more for a different car with better finish if Ford can't get it done. Not all of us have that option. And Ford's already shown that they can't do it at that price. In fact, no one can. Can you name a car that performs like a Mustang that is really much more refined or sophisticated? It's like everyone wants the Boss 302 performance with a BMW interior at the price of a GT and it just isn't happening. You put that kind of quality interior with all its nice trim with the Boss performance and you're looking at a 70k car.

I'm also talking about more than the interior. When I hear refined and sophisticated I immediately think less fun to drive. Part of Clarkson's complaint was that his body felt like mush after that long drive in the GT500. Seriously? If you want a fast but smooth and comfortable/quiet ride, go with a BMW or Mercedes. I WANT it to be raw and unrefined when I drive it. I want to feel the road and the car rumble when I give it gas and a lot of the more refined European cars simply dont drive like that.

My sister's 2006 Mazda 6 has a much better fit and finish than my mustang, and mine was nearly twice the price.

It's not about the money, as I've already said. It's about attention to detail given the materials they used and the geometries used in the design.

I don't mind the way my car feels on the road one bit. IRS will be a nice touch though because powering through a turn on uneven pavement makes my car hop around and get squirly out back. With IRS it won't do that. Other than that, it's totally fine.

The refinement I'm talking about has nothing to do with the smoothness of the way it drives. I'm talking about the quality of the finish of the car as a whole having tight tolerances, fitting together firmly, lining up gaps, not rattling, etc. That's what needs refinement to be fixed.

 

[K.Lysius]

I'm also talking about more than the interior. When I hear refined and sophisticated I immediately think less fun to drive. Part of Clarkson's complaint was that his body felt like mush after that long drive in the GT500. Seriously? If you want a fast but smooth and comfortable/quiet ride, go with a BMW or Mercedes. I WANT it to be raw and unrefined when I drive it. I want to feel the road and the car rumble when I give it gas and a lot of the more refined European cars simply dont drive like that.

You can just stick with the s197 then The next model will for sure be getting upgraded and better interior. You can still have better quality and more upscale interior and still feel the car plenty good under you.

 

[GTsquid]

It's not about catering to European consumers per se. The problem is that Ford and other car manufacturers need global platforms in order to compete on a global scale vs the likes of Chinese and Korean companies that can produce for much cheaper. And in order to compete globally, even America's most iconic brand, the Mustang needs to take some things into consideration that perhaps it never has.... like the fact that in certain countries the cars that dominate all have much nicer finishes and consumers are used to a certain level of refinement at a certain price point, even at the expense of raw power.

That said, I would nto be surprised to see Ford offering a much nicer premium fit and finish in its stock GT and raise the price $3K or so, then for those who either don't care or want the power without the nicer finish, offer a GTS model, basically a GT powertrain into a plain Mustang shell, like they did in the 90's.

 

[StangFX]

That's the prob Ford has right now. You make a more premium product for a more premium cost and who can afford it other than the more affluent baby boomers? I read the average age of the Mustang buyer today is 51 years old!

They want to reach out to Gen Y with a less retro look but Gen Y is broke and can't find a job in this crap economy. Not to mention young kids just don't want to drive anymore. You have to wonder if Ford just created a car at the right place/time that really resonated with a single generation of buyers and has just been riding out for the last 50 years.

 

[MustangDizzle]

Kids don't want to drive?

Ummm, not true.

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