The Saga Continues...Mantic 9000 Clutch Install Issues

[TheLion70x77]

I posted about 4 weeks ago that my stock clutch let got at 30k. I don't drag race the car (not sure if the previous owner did as it had 5,600 miles on it when I bought it, but it was stock other than a Corsa exhaust and window tint).

I've since made quite a few changes to the car myself. Power Pack 2, VelossaTeck Ram Air Duct, TrobTEX DLC coating, PUP 5W-30, JLT3.0 oil catch can, lowering springs, full roll center and bump steer, IRS lockout, front bar, lightweight tires and wheels etc. So the car performs very well and is making great power.

I do mostly road race type driving on the plethora of empty back roads. Heel and toe with rev matching etc., not riding the pedal. My last car from college was a 2007 Focus ST with 175k miles on the ORIGINAL clutch...so obviously I'm not a "clutch killer" type of driver.

I've had issues off and on with the pedal getting stuck at high RPM's like many even when it was bone stock, but had never found a definitive solution other than "replace the clutch with an after market unit". So knowing the issues with the OE clutch I had experienced and taking into account it's early demise I decided to go all out and spend on a Mantic 9000 white box with heavy duty organic disks and steel fly wheel. Lightweight unit at 36 lbs for clutch pack, bolts and flywheel vs. OE at 46 lbs...btw the Alpha based SS's clutch pack and fly wheel is a whopping 66 lbs! Probably to handle the 2.66 first gear (super tall).

Overall quality of the clutch is outstanding from a machining and workmanship perspective, there is no doubt about that. But the actual fitment and function within my 2016 PP GT is absolutely horrid. I originally had the car towed to the local Ford dealer I use for warranty related issues, hoping it was a slave or master cylinder that might be covered under warranty. But it was the classic de-laminated OE organic pad failure mustang owners have experienced since 2011.

Given the car was stuck at the dealer and the local performance shop I use for alignments is booked, I decided to have the dealership do the install. I'm sick of working on cars right now and don't have the time to mess with it. They put their master tech on it and I've had work done by him before, he is very meticulous. I also obviously do my own work (I've dropped two IRS's, one on an Ecoboost for a 3.31 to 3.73 Torsen diff swap, another on my GT when the diff bolt sheared off), so I can verify with confidence the quality of work the tech is doing.

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[TheLion70x77]

Install is pretty simple, 8 bolt billet flywheel with 8 ARP hex bolts, 8 drive studs / bolts / nuts / lock washers, two sprung hub clutch disks, one intermediate sprung billet steel pressure ring, one front ridged pressure ring and one billet aluminum cover with a diaphragm style spring.

Fist issue, one of the disks was NOT marked at all as to which side faces the flywheel. But the other was marked properly. Not a big deal as the install video shows the physical orientation and the spring hubs are asymmetrical, so it is easy to note their physical orientation by appearance.

Tech installed the flywheel and clutch pack and then the second issue arose while torquing the cover nuts / bolts down. Every time they would start torqing down the cover nuts the clutch alignment tool would get stuck. So something was causing them to want to rotate during the torquing process. They followed the suggested method of rotating them one turn at a time in a star pattern, similar to torquing lug nuts. They tried the supplied plastic alignment tool and some OE Ford steel ones in the shop. Same issue with all of the tools, so the clutch disks for some reason were moving during the tightening process. Eventually they got it torqued down and were able to pull the alignment tool out. Yes, the output shaft spline to the trans was also lightly greased with OE grease.

Trans went back on, drive shaft re-bolted etc. Then they bled the slave / master cylinders. Also note I had them install the Steeda braided steel clutch line which I now believe to be the primary cause of the pedal sticking to the floor. It seems the plastic OE line does not tolerate heat very well and can do one of two things: choke off fluid flow when it flexes or expand / rupture if the fluid gets hot enough. It's also somewhat close to one of the headers which will exacerbate the issue.

I noted that out of 100+ reviews I looked up on the all the various braided steel clutch lines, nearly 50% of them mentioned that it fixed the stuck pedal issue at high RPMs. That is probably also why Ford Performance makes one which I thought was an odd thing to make...but now I know why. I believe my stock line is responsible for the OE clutches early demise. I suspect as it got hot it would expand or bulge, my pedal would get very spungy and travel would be far less because the volume of the line is expanding, thus absorbing the hydraulic pressure. So the clutch was likely not disengaging fully and slipping every time I would shift. Doing road race type driving frequently, it's going to get a lot of excessive heat buildup that eventually over heated the organic pads causing them to fail. Way to go Ford...sell a 36k car but put in a cheap a** plastic hydraulic line right next to a header that shares fluid with performance brakes that also transfer heat. Really intelligent...and they've known about this since the S197's...

Anyway, back to this horrid install experience. Once the trans was finally bolted back up, they bled the master / slave. Started the car up and noted immediately the scraping or metallic grating sound when ever the pedal was pressed (clutch disengaged). The sound would go away as you would let out the pedal, but its as if the disks are constantly dragging across the rings / flywheel. There is no pedal travel adjustment on the OE master cylinder or slave. You just fill it and bleed it / purge it of air. It's a fixed travel system.

Pedal itself was quiet, not squeaking or any indication of trapped air. Just to double check, they purged it again, but no change. Pedal feel is very odd, it's quite a bit lighter than the OE clutch for 80% of the travel, then it gets extremely stiff right at the end. When you get to the last 20% there is substantial resistance and a very intense whining sound occurs as well as intensifying of the scraping sound, the shifter starts to vibrate quite a bit....not good. It's as if something is reaching it's limits of travel. This isn't floater plate rattle either which I was willing to tolerate (that supposedly the 9000's DON'T do). Techs put the car back up on the lift, dropped the trans and noted the clutch pack was too hot to even touch.

Makes sense, metal grating sound is likely the friction disks dragging across the plates / flywheel even when it's disengaged, building up some heat (not enough to fry anything or cause damage, but enough to get things hot enough to burn fingers). Pedal effort is supposed to be 10~15% MORE than OE, not spongy / half the pressure. Something isn't right with the way the slave is engaging the diaphragm spring or the way the diaphragm spring is releasing pressure. So they inspected the clutch pack assembly and verified everything is in the correct orientation. No signs of anything scraping the bell housing, no signs of any bolts sticking out and contacting anything etc. Looks just like it was when it was first put in. No fluid leaks from either the main bearing on the 5.0 or the output shaft on the trans. Also we verified it's not the trans that's scraping or whining. Shaft turns smoothly and I didn't notice any abnormal noise just prior to the OE clutch failing.

That's when we decided to give it another go and replace the slave with a factory new OE slave. This clutch is designed to work with Ford OE slave cylinders with the integrated throw-out bearing. So they installed the new slave (same as what was in there, just new), bolted everything back up and....same thing. No change in pedal feel / engagement point and excessive resistance at the end of travel, no change in the grating sound when the pedal is pressed either. We also bled the hydraulic system twice AGAIN. Pedal itself is quiet and smooth, but the feel is extremely odd.

 

[TheLion70x77]

I'm not one week 5...still not Mustang...still no working clutch. I'm NOT happy with the 9000 I purchased for $1,500 from Lethalperformance. I'm not suggesting it's their fault as they didn't design the clutch, Mantic did. I tried calling Mantic USA several times over the last couple of days as a last resort. Voice mailbox is full so I can't even leave a message. No e-mail response. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So now I've paid $1,500 for a clutch that won't work in my car, $850 for labor + new OE slave and I still don't have a working car.

I'm going to have to shell out another $750 in labor again (because this is NOT the dealer's fault) and another $500 for a new OE clutch and flywheel. I'll leave the braided stainless steel clutch line in from steeda and hope that resolves the hydraulics issue so the new OE clutch doesn't get fried by 20~30k like the first one. Talk about pissed off...I really hope Lethalperformance will help make this right because they are the vendor that sells this clutch as a drop in replacement, when indeed there seems to be some major comparability issue with my 2016 PP GT. Perhaps something changed in the design between 2015 - 2016. They are not exactly the same and there are times when revisions occur under the radar, sometimes to improve upon design issues, other times for reducing manufacturing costs. Perhaps this is one such instance. Either that or Mantic gave me the wrong flywheel or diaphragm / cover? Perhaps I got an out of tolerance flywheel that's the cause? Perhaps it was machined to incorrect dimensions? I don't know, all I know is the install was done by the books, verified twice and still no dice.

When I ordered the clutch, I had to wait two weeks for them to make flywheels because they were out of stock. What ever the case, this has turned into one big disaster and I'm not the only one who has had issues with the install. A few guys with 2018's couldn't get their 9000's to work right at all, one guy dropped his trans four times to no avail! Obviously there is some compatibility issues with certain years, but I was NOT expecting a 2016 PP GT to have such issues as it typically falls in the comparability range for 2015-2017's. We'll see if Lethalperformance can help make this right, because right now I'm extremely unhappy with Mantic, especially since I can't even get a old of any support staff for their US office...period. It's a shame because the workmanship of the 9000's are stellar, but the design obviously is not working as intended in my car no matter what we do and my bet is on the flywheel being incorrectly machined or something being out spec with the clutch pack. 2011-2019's all use 8 bolt mains so they will all physically bolt up, but the spacing won't be correct in certain years without specific design of flywheel.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears...

 

[TheLion70x77]

Something that stuck out to me as very odd is that the alignment tool would get stuck as the cover bolts were torqued. I mentioned that to Geoff and he said that's a first, but suggested there's a good probability one of the disks is warped / manufactured incorrectly or possibly the flywheel. That would explain why its dragging constantly and also why the tool gets stuck. As you tightening the cover down and diaphragm spring applies pressure, the misaligned disk is wanting to rotate off-axis (think a wobbling wheel). This makes it apply pressure to the alignment tool and hence why it gets stuck. I think that's the cause right there for the scraping sound.

However Geoff at Mantic said if they get it back and do find manufacturing defects, I'll get a full refund and they will reimburse me for the labor costs. I'd really like to make this work, but I"m not sure if I can wait for them to get new fly wheels in again for another kit if the disks aren't the cause and it's the flywheel machining. Weather the flywheel is warped / machined incorrectly or the spring hub / friction disk is warped, it's an issue that I / Ford didn't cause and it's caused a huge headache for me....

 

[FoMoCoMoFo16]

How did this work out?

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