PP2 EPS, ABS Tuning on PP1 GT's

[valentinoamoro]

Hey guys,
Many of you have seen this good video comparing the PP2 to PP1.

Motortrend also gives a good breakdown for a more detailed comparison.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2018/2018-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-2-review/


Key differences are aero, wheels and tires, shock and spring tuning and unique EPS and ABS calibration. The latter helps with brake response and the former steering response. There should be no reason a GT PP1 with a wide square tire setup shouldn't benefit from this.
A few questions:
>I believe PP2 also runs different pads?
>Has anyone tried retrofitting the upgraded wheel bearings and relocated tie rod ends of the PP2 and mag ride cars in non mags? Wondering if this is a worthy upgrade for feel.
>Can we run the EPS and ABS calibrations for PP2 in PP1? The hardware should be the same if I'm not mistaken. The PP1 can easily be upgraded with awesome shocks, springs, wheels and tires, splitter etc, I have done all of that and much more- its the EPS and ABS I'm curious about!

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[w3rkn]

Yes,
The GTPP2 has a specifically "tuned" MR suspension by Ford Performance, & is set up in the same datacrunching way, the GT350 was. The MR can be "tuned", if that is what you are asking, but I am not sure using the PP2's calibration/map will/would be effective on a different suspension, or set up.

I know others are curious too.

 

[valentinoamoro]

I'm willing to try but not even sure how to begin - would we have to go to the dealer with the VIN for a PP2 car so they can find the calibrations of EPAS and ABS? Would they then have to use the OBD 2 to upload the software and overwrite or is it likely to be locked to the VIN?

 

[Mazman]

Are the springs on the PP2 the M-5300-W or is it the standard springs of the GT350 or something else?

I would say most of the time difference is coming from the tires.

 

[Mountain376]

If you want the PP2 dynamic controls tuning and MRC tuning, you may be able to get this via changing “As Built Data”. You need to compare a PP2’s and a PP1’s (with MRC) VIN. It’s been a while since I’ve messed with this stuff, so I can’t remember how “packaged” everything is. So, I’m not sure if you could just take, for example, the ABS tuning and put it on a PP1 w/out MRC or a base GT (a PP1 w/ MRC has the same hardware as a PP2).

The “upgraded wheel bearings “ should be the same as on the PP1 MRC cars.
I can’t comment on the relocated tie rods (I believe they are the same on MRC cars). But, for track use, it’s worth it.

 

[Eritas]

You can always just get the day tuner and do a better job than Ford could ;)

 

[Myshelby3425]

Anyone have pictures of the relocated tie rod ends? Has this been confirmed?

 

[sigintel]

Picks of wheel bearing, spindle and tie rods please!
Anyone have a PP2?

 

[Cobra Jet]

Curious about the wheel bearings too, because that’s the first time I’m hearing of it... why would the PP2 have different front wheel bearings as opposed to the other S550’s?

Also to note, I’ve posted previously in the Forscan thread asking folks to look at the PP2 As Built coding relating to the EPS and ABS differences in code... the only responses I received were folks asking “why”.... LMAO....

 

[Mountain376]

Curious about the wheel bearings too, because that’s the first time I’m hearing of it... why would the PP2 have different front wheel bearings as opposed to the other S550’s?

Also to note, I’ve posted previously in the Forscan thread asking folks to look at the PP2 As Built coding relating to the EPS and ABS differences in code... the only responses I received were folks asking “why”.... LMAO....

There are articles that talk about the tie rods on MRC car’s knuckles. The wheel bearings are upgraded on MRC cars in general.

 

[TicTocTach]

There are articles that talk about the tie rods on MRC car’s knuckles. The wheel bearings are upgraded on MRC cars in general.

Do the upgraded wheel bearings cross over to to the EBPP + MRC cars as well?

 

[Mountain376]

Do the upgraded wheel bearings cross over to to the EBPP + MRC cars as well?

I would think so...

 

[valentinoamoro]

If you want the PP2 dynamic controls tuning and MRC tuning, you may be able to get this via changing “As Built Data”. You need to compare a PP2’s and a PP1’s (with MRC) VIN. It’s been a while since I’ve messed with this stuff, so I can’t remember how “packaged” everything is. So, I’m not sure if you could just take, for example, the ABS tuning and put it on a PP1 w/out MRC or a base GT (a PP1 w/ MRC has the same hardware as a PP2).

The “upgraded wheel bearings “ should be the same as on the PP1 MRC cars.
I can’t comment on the relocated tie rods (I believe they are the same on MRC cars). But, for track use, it’s worth it.

Thanks for providing a useful response @Mountain376 . ABS tuning I get, how about EPS? The EPS should not have any difference in hardware between non MR 2015 PP1s and 2018+ PP2s as the rack is the same ? Do you think a tuning shop that specializes in Mustangs can do this? Assuming you get the VINS of PP2 cars from the web? (dealer websites etc?)

Surprised stuff like this is not more common in the forum.

Cheers,

 

[valentinoamoro]

Curious about the wheel bearings too, because that’s the first time I’m hearing of it... why would the PP2 have different front wheel bearings as opposed to the other S550’s?

Also to note, I’ve posted previously in the Forscan thread asking folks to look at the PP2 As Built coding relating to the EPS and ABS differences in code... the only responses I received were folks asking “why”.... LMAO....

Thanks @Cobra Jet . I'm always surprised by this as well - the why is pretty obvious to me. The Mustang since the S197 Boss 302 has been a car with a solid handling from the factory and with mods a car that can be great (ok, the GT350R is GREAT stock). There are a ton of people on the forums who havent come around to realizing there is a fast growing and substantial base of folks like me who enjoy mountain roads, autocross etc and spend big money on handling mods - many of which dont do anything for grip but increase feedback and controllability at the limit.

Please keep trying and report back if you get the answers. I will do the same. I think if the PP2 EPS software in particular is a simple update on PP1 builds (pre or post refresh), that could be a great update. ABS I'm less interested in as honestly I have never had any issue with the strong brakes of this car.

 

[Mountain376]

Thanks for providing a useful response @Mountain376 . ABS tuning I get, how about EPS? The EPS should not have any difference in hardware between non MR 2015 PP1s and 2018+ PP2s as the rack is the same ? Do you think a tuning shop that specializes in Mustangs can do this? Assuming you get the VINS of PP2 cars from the web? (dealer websites etc?)

Surprised stuff like this is not more common in the forum.

Cheers,

The EPS should be physically different internally. The reason I say this is that the PP2 has a constant (single) ratio steering rack, where the other Mustangs have a variable ratio rack. The ratio of the rack is a mechanical thing; the "E" in "EPS" (Electronic Power Steering) is just the power assist being electronic. The rack is still very mechanical otherwise.

I am not sure this part is one work worrying about for two reasons: 1. The steering ratio is going to mostly affect a driver's steering feel and of where the car is pointing on a road course; in autocross, it can help with making tight turns, depending on the ratio difference; on the street, it's not really much of a big deal. Unless you know the steering ratios, it's hard to judge if the change in the part is worthwhile. 2. The MotorTrend review of the PP2 had this to say: "Somewhat counterintuitively, the fixed-ratio steering also earned a demerit here, with "very little on-center or mid-corner feel." Almost every staffer complained about the need to exercise vigilance. Said one driver, "I'm constantly adjusting the steering angle, trying to find the line and the set."

As far as the tuning, you should be able to do that on your own, actually. It used to be that you would have to have access to Ford's IDS service tool to do it, but now days, you can do it other ways:
https://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4393

Thanks @Cobra Jet . I'm always surprised by this as well - the why is pretty obvious to me. The Mustang since the S197 Boss 302 has been a car with a solid handling from the factory and with mods a car that can be great (ok, the GT350R is GREAT stock). There are a ton of people on the forums who havent come around to realizing there is a fast growing and substantial base of folks like me who enjoy mountain roads, autocross etc and spend big money on handling mods - many of which dont do anything for grip but increase feedback and controllability at the limit.

Please keep trying and report back if you get the answers. I will do the same. I think if the PP2 EPS software in particular is a simple update on PP1 builds (pre or post refresh), that could be a great update. ABS I'm less interested in as honestly I have never had any issue with the strong brakes of this car.

You say you are not concerned about the ABS, but out of all the things on the PP2 that I would be drooling over would be the ABS, MRC calibration and the wheels. In that order. Why? Although you may not be feeling that you car's current ABS is holding you back it might be or it might in the future. The PP2's ABS is tuned around a tire that is both very wide and as similar as you are going to get to a competition compound. Furthermore, the tuning is done in a "track-inspired" manner - So, it is tuned for performance and less compromised for the street and street tires. The ABS that is out on cars now is very seamless and hard to detect by human feel. Not that it can't be, but most times than not, you will NOT know ABS is doing anything. When you throw wide, sticky tires and aggressive brakes on a street car and begin to brake like a race car driver (proper performance braking), a street car's ABS will trip up a lot and hold you back - less optimal stopping going into a corner will translate into lower corner speeds and/or less driver confidence; What I am saying is that 1. You can throw your car's system into an "ice mode" (the car perceives the situation as being on ice - the rate of deceleration, when monitoring wheel speed and vehicle speed, is so quick, it thinks you are on ice) or 2. You can too easily lock up the brakes and the ABS won't be able to properly modulate and understand how to deal with the situation. Of course, you could always pull the ABS fuse or disconnect a wheel speed sensor and disable ABS, then rely on threshold braking...

"With the PP2's stickier-than-PP1 tires and increased overall tire footprint, stopping from 60 mph required 10 fewer feet. From my notes that day in Track mode, "Firm, firm, firm pedal, great bite, flat attitude, and excellent fade resistance. Tremendous brakes. " That's from MotorTrend.

" Clearly, the PP2 is a more extreme track package and it does well when thrown into a corner, but the PP2 is a completely different animal than the PP1. In Track mode, this Mustang is a beast with heightened limits and so much more available grip. You can brake way later and get on the gas way earlier in the PP2, so much so that the car is unflappable compared with the PP1. It's an intense Mustang with composure that lets you focus on going faster, a lot faster. "

"Measured stopping distances from 60 mph and seat-of-the-pants braking feel give the advantage to the PP2 in a big way. And here's the kicker: The brakes are physically the same between the cars. The only difference between the two are the wider wheels and tires, and unique antilock brake logic, which went a long way to making the car a more potent stopper. "

"The PP2's brakes are easier to manage at their limits with smoother pedal modulation near antilock braking system intervention. "

"The brakes on both Mustangs are strong, fade-free and have an excellent feel, but it's fascinating to see what the engineers can do to retune how they stop given some extra tire grip."
Those are from Cars.com review of the PP1 vs PP2.

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