Nuke the Taurus

[S550Boss]

And Chrysler is having it's best overall sales since 2007. 100k is pretty good for such a dated and large product, one they are years away from replacing with an all-new product (that story is an Italian soap opera in itself).

Big question is how big this particular market actually is, and how many sales could Ford take out of it? And where is it going, in terms of size and volume? The Taurus and Impala are considered part of this same market, and where in the future is this market is going? Note that both offer AWD, as does Chrysler, so an AWD option is a requirement that would have to be met by the theoretical RWD-based Ford product (and that's far cheaper to engineer with a FWD-based platform).

But one part of this conversation was Australia, where the large car market died. And it's died in nearly every other market too (excepting Middle East, where large cars have been selling). It's long dead in Europe, except for ultra-rich niches. So going forward, given the 54.4 CAFE and further CO2 standards, will the North American market see such large cars as mass market (high production numbers), or niche (upmarket, limited, expensive, low production numbers).

And, complicating it, how much does an SRT really help sell the rest of the line? I can see the value of SRT there, where the SRT Charger (offered for niche enthusiasts) helps sell pedestrian Chargers (and makes for a nice margin). I can't see that in the case of the SHO, where enthusiasts see it as morbidly obese, and what little sells just sells as an optioned-up Taurus. And in the case of the Chevy SS, there is only a single model so there is no analogy here.

Certainly Ford and GM have done market research here... and just as certainly we'll never see the numbers generated by that.

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[Dirk McGurck]

The SS is getting stick shift? Shame it weighs as much as a truck.

 

[S550Boss]

Holden did a mild refresh on the existing old chassis that we saw here as the G8. Not much weight came out of it, but a lot of options went into it.

But it's only 3975 pounds, which is very good for it's size. Compare that to the sumo wrestler SHO at 4368 (base).

And it still wasn't updated to the LT1 either.

 

[redbeard331]

So what it all comes down to is excuses, excuses as to why Ford can't build a RWD sedan, they also have a luxury brand that could use a RWD chassis, I mean damn, if Hyundai can do it...

They seriously should just axe Lincoln if they aren't even willing to invest in the brand, to think they sold off PAG and instead of trying to compete with Lincoln, they have just turned it intro the new Mercury. Makes you wonder just what world Ford Exec's live in.:frusty:

 

[Falc'man]

and pay Australia's huge import tax

There is no huge import tax. The SRT8 sells cheaper than the equivalent FPV GT which is built in Australia.

The former also has a fair bit more features; Falcon was made on a shoestring budget and misses out on a fair bit of gizmos.

 

[DHG1078]

So what it all comes down to is excuses, excuses as to why Ford can't build a RWD sedan, they also have a luxury brand that could use a RWD chassis, I mean damn, if Hyundai can do it...

It's not excuses, its just good business. Why would they spend huge amounts of money on a large rwd/awd sedan that has a unique platform with not much cost sharing, and need to sell tons of them to make it worth it, when they have a decent large sedan that shares a platform with multiple vehicles and has lots of cost sharing and only need to sell a few?

Sure the taurus is big, heavy, and boring compared to other cars from ford lately. Yes it would be cool to have a high hp rwd sedan and bring back the torino name plate or something along those lines. Ford wouldn't be in business today if they only did what was cool to a few performance enthusiasts. It just isn't a good business model.

 

[redbeard331]

It's not excuses, its just good business. Why would they spend huge amounts of money on a large rwd/awd sedan that has a unique platform with not much cost sharing, and need to sell tons of them to make it worth it, when they have a decent large sedan that shares a platform with multiple vehicles and has lots of cost sharing and only need to sell a few?

The point is exactly to share the chassis as much as possible, why would you think I'd want them to make a unique chassis and not share the benefits of it as much as possible? Lincoln desperately needs an array of RWD vehicles or it's going to continue to be a joke and wither away, and Ford will eventually be forced to kill it. The Taurus has an identity problem, it's too big and heavy, yet has a cramped interior, and just doesn't have the dynamics of a sedan it's price should. Virtually every other brand I can think of has figured out how to build good profitable RWD sedans, and use the same chassis for their luxury brand, or vice versa. Yes Ford will have to invest billions to make it happen, as every other company has had to do, if Ford isn't willing to make that investment, isn't willing to compete, they might as well axe Lincoln now and Focus solely on Ford.

Sure the taurus is big, heavy, and boring compared to other cars from ford lately. Yes it would be cool to have a high hp rwd sedan and bring back the torino name plate or something along those lines. Ford wouldn't be in business today if they only did what was cool to a few performance enthusiasts. It just isn't a good business model.

It is a good business model when you share that chassis with your luxury brand to resurrect it, but apparently they are happy where they are, as long as Ford is bringing in the cash. They don't have the heart or desire to make Lincoln competitive, which is pretty sad.

This RWD sedan could be sold worldwide, we could send a bunch to the Middle East and Australia, it doesn't just have to be to a few enthusiasts here. Just think about it, even Hyundai sells a RWD V8 sedan, HYUNDAI!! If they can do it so can Ford. Until then Ford executives are just making excuses, period.

 

[Falc'man]

Totally agree with redbeard331.

Next gen Taurus is said to be a lot better but it still shouldn't keep Ford from a proper rwd range.

 

[C00KIE M0NSTER]

The point is exactly to share the chassis as much as possible, why would you think I'd want them to make a unique chassis and not share the benefits of it as much as possible? Lincoln desperately needs an array of RWD vehicles or it's going to continue to be a joke and wither away, and Ford will eventually be forced to kill it. The Taurus has an identity problem, it's too big and heavy, yet has a cramped interior, and just doesn't have the dynamics of a sedan it's price should...

I agree with you, but unfortunately we know the next Taurus and MKS are stretched versions of the Fusion/Mondeo platform which is FWD.

We can only hope that when Mark Fields takes over he actually cares about Lincoln and wants it to succeed rather than Mulally who doesn't give two fuks about Lincoln.

 

[L8APEX]

I agree with you, but unfortunately we know the next Taurus and MKS are stretched versions of the Fusion/Mondeo platform which is FWD.

We can only hope that when Mark Fields takes over he actually cares about Lincoln and wants it to succeed rather than Mulally who doesn't give two fuks about Lincoln.

I feel sorry for the Lincoln only dealers. They have been f'd ever since Mercury is gone. Lincoln has such a boring lineup

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