Need some opinions on water/meth injection

[dcrypter]

I am thinking about getting a water/meth injection kit to go along with my supercharger when my '15 gets here. I was wondering what the general consensus was on it? Is it worth the price? Does it consistently allow the 10-20% gains it says? From what I've been reading it's not too bad to use it in a DD as long as I'm not heavy footed so unless someone has experiences otherwise that doesn't seem like an issue. Any other thoughts or opinions?

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[TiE2000]

I am thinking about getting a water/meth injection kit to go along with my supercharger when my '15 gets here. I was wondering what the general consensus was on it? Is it worth the price? Does it consistently allow the 10-20% gains it says? From what I've been reading it's not too bad to use it in a DD as long as I'm not heavy footed so unless someone has experiences otherwise that doesn't seem like an issue. Any other thoughts or opinions?

1st - Meth injection does not increase the HP of your car. It frees up lost HP from heat soak. This is why it is used on SC applications.

2nd - I say don't do it for a DD car. I had a Devils own kit installed on my 06 Cobalt SS/SC. I had some major and minor issues with the kit, though you may not see them... but I would like to relay my experience. My first issue was having to drill holes in my trunk for the mounting and needing to remove my spare to do so. (got a flat tire one day and immediately regretted it). 2nd I had to drill a hole in my CAI for the nozzle. It was only supposed to spray when I went full WOT. Unfortunately I found this was not the case and it was spraying every time I pressed the gas, I did eventually work this out, but at the cost of 2 throttle bodies. It also cut the life of my SC in half.

For the gains you see with Meth, they are not worth the risk. But if you are dragging and striping your car your may need it to get that little extra.

 

[e30og]

sounds abusive enough to me for a DD!

I have no experience with it though

 

[dcrypter]

1st - Meth injection does not increase the HP of your car. It frees up lost HP from heat soak. This is why it is used on SC applications.

2nd - I say don't do it for a DD car. I had a Devils own kit installed on my 06 Cobalt SS/SC. I had some major and minor issues with the kit, though you may not see them... but I would like to relay my experience. My first issue was having to drill holes in my trunk for the mounting and needing to remove my spare to do so. (got a flat tire one day and immediately regretted it). 2nd I had to drill a hole in my CAI for the nozzle. It was only supposed to spray when I went full WOT. Unfortunately I found this was not the case and it was spraying every time I pressed the gas, I did eventually work this out, but at the cost of 2 throttle bodies. It also cut the life of my SC in half.

For the gains you see with Meth, they are not worth the risk. But if you are dragging and striping your car your may need it to get that little extra.

Yes, my understanding is it effectively increases the octane rating of your fuel and decreases intake temperatures to allow you to use a more aggressive tune safely.

My understanding of the snow performance kit is that it will be able to scale itself based on throttle or a couple other conditions not just WOT so I would hope it would be a bit more efficient. Also the recommended install location is after the intercooler so that should eliminate the problem of making a hole in the CAI.

I appreciate the input though I've seen a few horror stories as it were it's nice to hear the problems people have

 

[FreddyG]

Yes, my understanding is it effectively increases the octane rating of your fuel and decreases intake temperatures to allow you to use a more aggressive tune safely.

My understanding of the snow performance kit is that it will be able to scale itself based on throttle or a couple other conditions not just WOT so I would hope it would be a bit more efficient. Also the recommended install location is after the intercooler so that should eliminate the problem of making a hole in the CAI.

I appreciate the input though I've seen a few horror stories as it were it's nice to hear the problems people have

This is correct about the meth adding octane and also the cooling effect that it has on the A/F mixture.

I had an Alky Control kit on my old C5 Vette that worked off of a MAP sensor. It was set to only run when going WOT. The extra octane of the meth (I used VP Racing stuff, which worked well) lets you add timing and/or a bit more boost on a blown engine.

I tuned it with a safety built in where if something went wrong with the meth system, and the IAT's (Intake Air Temps) went up, it would pull timing and keep the motor safe. Fortunately, it never had any problems, so i didn't have to see if the safety worked, but it helped me to make over 600 rwhp on a stock bottom end LS1.

Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[Trackaholic]

Freddy alluded to it in his post, but I am also closely following the C7 on the corvetteforum, and most of the tuners there seem to strongly recommend a meth kit. They typically set it up as Freddy mentioned, with a fail-safe so if the meth fails the engine can still safely run. With the meth working, the car runs cooler and even more safely (in theory), allowing a bit more power and tuning headroom.

I personally don't have any experience with either a S/C or meth kit.

-T

 

[wproctor411]

Some people use a NOS kit setup for cooling. More common for drag racing and performance diesel but it's another option, and it will add power, how much depends on jetting. Buyer beware. http://www.nitrousdirect.com/turbo-nitrous.html

 

[FreddyG]

I used Julio at Alky Control. His setup worked well and he's a Genius when it comes to meth injection! There is some good tuning info on there too.

Here's his site if you'd like to take a look:

http://www.alkycontrol.com/

 

[Phlyguy]

Yes, my understanding is it effectively increases the octane rating of your fuel and decreases intake temperatures to allow you to use a more aggressive tune safely.

My understanding of the snow performance kit is that it will be able to scale itself based on throttle or a couple other conditions not just WOT so I would hope it would be a bit more efficient. Also the recommended install location is after the intercooler so that should eliminate the problem of making a hole in the CAI.

I appreciate the input though I've seen a few horror stories as it were it's nice to hear the problems people have

Water and Alcohol/Methanol injection is a popular way to decrease detonation by "Cooling" the atomized fuel/air charge before it is ignited in the combustion chamber. This feature was used (and still is used to some degree) on high performance radial engined aircraft most notably in World War II when higher fuel octane blends were inconsistent, especially for the axis forces. Add to this the effects of high altitudes flown even with supercharging and one could find oneself in hot water when the throttle was pushed to the gate and the engine would start knocking.

For your typical street applications, ADI (Anti Detonation Injection) as it is called in aviation applications is probably in my opinion not worth the risk as I do not believe any manufacturer will warranty the engine or drive components if an aftermarket ADI kit is installed. Conversely, ADI might be good for certain applications like requiring high performance due to higher than normal regional temperatures and density altitudes coupled with a lack of availability of 93 octane fuel. It all comes down to risk versus reward with ADI or any system (like Nitrous Oxide Injection) that helps to enhance combustion and reduce detonation.

 

[jaja6009]

OP, if you dont want the added complexity and chance of failure of the meth system, just make sure your heat exchanger/intercooler system is the best it can be.
Some parts you cannot control too much like the intercooler design in the supercharger/manifold housing. But you can get the biggest heat exchanger you can fit under the bumper. Also get one with Spal fans for when sitting in traffic and at low speeds. Also make sure your water pump is perfect for your system. I went up in GPM 2 times with my Saleen supercharger and each time cooling got better. Some pumps work great in low pressure systems but fall on their face in higher pressure ones. Make sure your lines dont have tight 90* bends and box in your heat exchanger under the bumper so no air goes around it, but rather is forced through it. Run 50/50 in the winter, but in the summer run 85 water/ 15 coolant minimum in the summer or even better water with surfactant (Redline, Purple Ice) in the summer. A larger capacity reservoir will also help hold off total heat soak of the fluid but eventually even that will become heat soaked, especially after turning the car off. (As in going to the store for 10 minutes)

All these little things add up when trying to tame IATs on positive Displacment blowers that just sit in a hot engine bay in the V of your engine.

We still have not seen the new supercharger systems in their entirety. And you would think that the manufacturers would have all of this accounted for and figured out. But if these systems are like the past systems there is room for improvement. Especially when you really start to add more boost than whatever the "stock", sold as kit is rated for.

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