My thoughts

[Livernois Motorsports]

How it feels is completely subjective and everyone will go around saying they have the best tunes. The only concrete way to see who's actually better in terms of power making would be to dyno each respective tune. Reliability can only be tested long term btw...

Also Ecoswag, no surprise you're defending OP. Gotta rep LMS bro

And NOBODY has a longer track record there. Thanks for backing our spotless record! :cheers:

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[Fasstang]

[MENTION=14905]stang77[/MENTION] if you still have the COBB and consider selling for a reasonable price, let me know by PM. Thanks and happy driving

 

[Tune+]

Thank you for the mention, however you never purchased an E-tune from me it looks and if you did and didn't send me a datalog you only have experience with a base tune which is intentionally 10% less boost than stock to see where your car is at before turning it up. Some cars depending on elevation, climate, and even build variants can have range of boost 1-5psi that is why I always make the first basemap 10% lower (20% lower if they have a downpipe) to get a baseline then I make changes from there.

 

[stang77]

Thank you for the mention, however you never purchased an E-tune from me it looks and if you did and didn't send me a datalog you only have experience with a base tune which is intentionally 10% less boost than stock to see where your car is at before turning it up. Some cars depending on elevation, climate, and even build variants can have range of boost 1-5psi that is why I always make the first basemap 10% lower (20% lower if they have a downpipe) to get a baseline then I make changes from there.

The base tune I had from you was when you were at MAP. I don't know what base tunes you are doing now. It would not have been fair or correct of me to comment on your tune since I have never logged anything.

 

[higdominator]

Edit: if you are talking track times, then I personally don't think that's the best gauge for a daily driver tune when reliability/drivability is so important

DD tune on the track is no less safe than on the street. It's a good way to weed out peak numbers vs proper tunes.

Without going into anything proprietary, we tackle power creation similarly to how your OEM calibrator or performance division would. We take the logic that your car was built with, and tweak it to work within the most efficient parameters possible. That is actually what we are doing. The happy result of these changes are more power and better MPG's! It is easy to turn the boost timing and fuel trims up to 11 and make power. BUT, we already know that this is not the best way to tune, however it is the best way to wipe a car from existence.

Sounds pretty intense.

 

[Busser48]

You are welcome Stang! It is awesome to see that after everything you still like your Livernois remote custom tuning best! I wish that I could take all of the credit for the "magic", but I cannot. We have an awesome tuning team! I just know the right questions to ask and how to interpret the data in front of me.

Full disclosure, Torrie is awesome. If there were no LMS, I would turn to him for tuning my personal cars. His tunes are good, and like you noted he is a stand-up guy. Don't get me wrong, we still addle: him with every vehicle we offer tuning for at strips all around the country lol.



Welcome to the posting half of the community lol!

We are so experienced and proficient in the entire EcoBoost platform that when we compare our remote custom tuning to a dyno tune that we do the delta is only about 3%. So we are talking about a far more expensive and time consuming process for let's call it 10hp.

We have made several investments in our future. For example, we do not rely upon any other company for our tuning. We developed our own proprietary tuning software that we do not license to anyone. This means that when we want to address a parameter we just do it. We do not have to ask permission or anything. We also purchase each vehicle that we offer tuning for. Our car collection is ever-changing and extensive. There are on average 2-3 new cars a year that join the stables. Some become favorites of the owners, and they stick around (perks of being the boss). Most however, get turned in to make room for the latest and greatest. We are also R&D partners with the OEM's, and that is something that nobody else can hang their hat on.



Without going into anything proprietary, we tackle power creation similarly to how your OEM calibrator or performance division would. We take the logic that your car was built with, and tweak it to work within the most efficient parameters possible. That is actually what we are doing. The happy result of these changes are more power and better MPG's! It is easy to turn the boost timing and fuel trims up to 11 and make power. BUT, we already know that this is not the best way to tune, however it is the best way to wipe a car from existence.

Ok so if that is the case,,how come these cars don't come that way? Or how come they don't use your expertise to tune the ecoboost platform? These are real questions and not me mocking you guys in any way, shape or form. I am truly trying to understand. Also aren't you one of the only tuners that do it this way? You did mention torrie, doesn't he adjust boost? Reason I ask again is because your saying doing this will blow the engine sooner or later? Thank you!

 

[higdominator]

There are 3 ingredients for power, air (boost), timing, and fuel. To make more power you have to adjust these items within the abilities of the motor, environment, and fuel type.

So yeah, you need more boost to make more power and you need more timing to make power. In order to feed/keep this in check you need more fuel. There's no way around it. How far you go is up to you.

They are essentially saying they do this, in a very convoluted way, just not to 11. Maybe a 6.5, 7 ish?

 

[Busser48]

There are 3 ingredients for power, air (boost), timing, and fuel. To make more power you have to adjust these items within the abilities of the motor, environment, and fuel type.

So yeah, you need more boost to make more power and you need more timing to make power. In order to feed/keep this in check you need more fuel. There's no way around it. How far you go is up to you.

They are essentially saying they do this, in a very convoluted way, just not to 11. Maybe a 6.5, 7 ish?

Thank you, and what would you say is an unsafe level? You think Adam is just more blunt and clear in terms of communication? Thanks

 

[ronv95]

Reason I ask again is because your saying doing this will blow the engine sooner or later? Thank you!

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. LMS is not doing anything any other big name tuner can't do if you ask. If asked Torrie could have easily adjusted the OPs tune to his liking so that the boost didn't feel like it was just hitting all at once...he has done it for me ....Adam can do the same shit and has done it for hundreds as well....they also don't pretend to be the say all be all of the forum.

 

[ypena02]

They are essentially saying they do this, in a very convoluted way, just not to 11. Maybe a 6.5, 7 ish?

Are you referring to timing?

 

[EcoSwag1990]

How it feels is completely subjective and everyone will go around saying they have the best tunes. The only concrete way to see who's actually better in terms of power making would be to dyno each respective tune. Reliability can only be tested long term btw...

Also Ecoswag, no surprise you're defending OP. Gotta rep LMS bro

As has been said, it's not hard for tuners to make power. How the tuning is set up is more important so qualitative reviews are still valuable. To say ppls opinions aren't valuable without dyno charts is pointless

DD tune on the track is no less safe than on the street. It's a good way to weed out peak numbers vs proper tunes.



Sounds pretty intense.

That's true

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Ok so if that is the case,,how come these cars don't come that way? Or how come they don't use your expertise to tune the ecoboost platform? These are real questions and not me mocking you guys in any way, shape or form. I am truly trying to understand. Also aren't you one of the only tuners that do it this way? You did mention torrie, doesn't he adjust boost? Reason I ask again is because your saying doing this will blow the engine sooner or later? Thank you!

Cars do not come this way because of emissions and cafe regulations, that simple. We do quite a bit of testing and calibration writing for them. There is only so much that they can do and still adhere to the standards that the government mandates them to.

We are the only ones that tune this way because we do not license our proprietary tuning software or hardware to anyone. With our tuning technology we have access to more parameters of the ECM. That access combined with our experience make all of the difference.

I mention Torrie because he is a capable tuner with a solid product and good safety record. We still have more experience, a longer unblemished record and routinely have remotely non-logged tunes go out and eat up his tunes by tenths while being completely safe and driveable.

I actually did not say that. What I said is that blindly turning up the boost, timing and fuel trims to 11 to make power will fail an engine. That is why we do NOT go about tuning that way.

 

[jtmat]

I have been asked by a few on here to do a review on the tunes that I have had. Have I had all three major tuners on this forum? Yes and No. The first tune I had on my car was the OTS Stage 1 tune from Cobb. I was not very impressed with that tune. I have no clue how the newer versions are now. Afterwards I decided on taking a look at Torrie with Unleashed. That was a pretty powerful tune. Based on my butt dyno it certainly was nice. Normal driving around town was slightly more aggressive but when you dropped the hammer, she would plant you in your seat. The tq was addicting LOL. After numerous datalogs back and forth Torrie had me running great. His customer service is second to none. While I was running his tune, I noticed the work that Adam was doing at MAP and the great reviews he was getting. I figured what the hell. I contacted Adam while he was still with MAP and got an E-Tune from him. Here is why I say No. I NEVER dataloged his base tune so I cannot comment. Adam is a great guy and knows his stuff. No question about that. On to LMS now. I decided to do this basically in the name of science LOL. I was really curious about the V7. I contacted Jamie and here I am now. The LMS tune is MUCH different than my Unleashed tune. The power comes on smooth and steady. The one for Unleashed just hits you like a ton of bricks. Both pull all the way to redline. But what really amazes me with LMS is how powerful the tune is but boost levels are not far off from stock. I would love to know how Jamie and the rest of the LMS team do their magic lol. This is not intended to bash another tuner. I am simply giving my thoughts on the two tunes that I have the most experience with. This spring I will be getting my car on a dyno and going to the track. I will post my numbers from that. In closing my hat goes off to Torre and LMS. . Thank you Jaime for the revision on my V7 too.

My goodness what a disaster... not sure why some would blast you for this.... I say THANK YOU.

It is cool to hear opinions about different tunes from someone who has done it. Additional info you can provide will be great.

Thanks for taking time to post... keep it up... some of us appreciate it.

 

[stang77]

My goodness what a disaster... not sure why some would blast you for this.... I say THANK YOU.

It is cool to hear opinions about different tunes from someone who has done it. Additional info you can provide will be great.

Thanks for taking time to post... keep it up... some of us appreciate it.

Thanks. As I said before I was not trying to bash any particular tuner at all. I just felt that me giving my real world driving impressions may help someone. As soon As I hit the track/dyno I will certainly post my results.

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