Moderna Vaccine

[HoosierDaddy]

Mine has changed several times as the evidence has changed.

So.... would it make more sense for someone to ignore your posts until you are gone from the forum, then just read your last ones?

Sponsored

 

[Burkey]

So.... would it make more sense for someone to ignore your posts until you are gone from the forum, then just read your last ones?

Cant win with some people. I recall you accusing me of never being willing to change my mind.
Well played. Decent troll effort.
I just assumed you’d already given up paying attention to my posts already. Clearly not.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Cant win with some people. I recall you accusing me of never being willing to change my mind.
Well played. Decent troll effort.
I just assumed you’d already given up paying attention to my posts already. Clearly not.

Sorry. I left out: asking for a friend.

 

[Gregs24]

For you and all the other anti-anti-vaxxers.

From the VAERS website, a site managed by both the CDC & FDA, perhaps you've heard of it. Or not.

https://vaersanalysis.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/VAERS-Summary-10222021.pdf

There's a reason the federal government (USA) established the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Yeah, turns out there's solid reasons for vaccine hesitancy, in general.

Anti-Vaxxer, once a benign term bearing legitimate concern, is now a political weapon meant to condemn, persecute, discriminate, and destroy the livelihoods of anyone demonstrating freedom of choice. Congratulations, your use is in accordance with the official narrative.

Try looking into and understanding the source before quoting it and stop spreading falsehoods. YOU may choose to politicise COVID vaccination, but in the rest of the world we don't play your silly political games. Both political 'sides' support vaccination in the UK.

Of course I suspect you will ignore the links below because they don't fit with your narrative - awkward for you that it ridicules what you say.

Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public | Science | AAAS

Unverified reports of vaccine side effects in VAERS aren't the smoking guns portrayed by right-wing media outlets – they can offer insight into vaccine hesitancy (theconversation.com)

Don’t Fall for the ‘VAERS Scare’ Tactic | Office for Science and Society - McGill University

Fact Check-VAERS data does not suggest COVID-19 vaccines killed 150,000 people, as analysis claims | Reuters

 

[Gregs24]

I understand but your post said all three vaccines are mRNA.

“Hello; Afraid the statement above is not correct. The more traditional types of vaccine were made in a very much different manner than the mRNA vaccines. The new covid vaccines are the mRNA type.”

Your last line in incorrect. The J&J does not use messenger RNA. That’s all I’m saying on it.

He lacks even basic understanding of what vaccines are available - just underlines why he is ignored by many on here now - he talks out of his fundament There are as you say many COVID vaccines that do not use mRNA technology.

 

[Gregs24]

So.... would it make more sense for someone to ignore your posts until you are gone from the forum, then just read your last ones?

That is how scientific understanding develops. The latest information is always used to update and refine understanding.

 

[Mitch03]

Try looking into and understanding the source before quoting it and stop spreading falsehoods. YOU may choose to politicise COVID vaccination, but in the rest of the world we don't play your silly political games. Both political 'sides' support vaccination in the UK.

Of course I suspect you will ignore the links below because they don't fit with your narrative - awkward for you that it ridicules what you say.

Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public | Science | AAAS

Unverified reports of vaccine side effects in VAERS aren't the smoking guns portrayed by right-wing media outlets – they can offer insight into vaccine hesitancy (theconversation.com)

Don’t Fall for the ‘VAERS Scare’ Tactic | Office for Science and Society - McGill University

Fact Check-VAERS data does not suggest COVID-19 vaccines killed 150,000 people, as analysis claims | Reuters

all typical BS links to try and push your narrative. Go somewhere else.......No one cares about your opinion.

 

[Atlas1]

Right now? I don’t know.
I’d like to see more literature on it before making that assessment.
I actually had a theoretical argument with my sister (a pharmacist) over this.

I played devils advocate, inventing numbers for the risk of death from covid for 7-12 year olds. Let’s call it 1:1,000,000. I then inserted a risk of 3:1,000,000 from the vaccine (entirely fictitious numbers used to illustrate the point). Her position was that even if the vaccine tripled a child’s risk of death, it was worthwhile for the benefit “society”.
Needless to say, a robust discussion was had. Not sure that she fully understood my point.

do you have children? i'm curious as to your answer and what effect it has on your opinion.
it is well understood that the virus poses essentially no risk to children, especially now as each variant gets weaker.
what kind of parent would sign their own children up for a shot that offers no upside, and which the long term effects are unknown? i would be praying every night that my children suffered no consequences as a result because otherwise, how could i live with myself? no disrespect towards your sister but her opinion is flawed scientifically and morally. using the numbers you provided (i realize they were for arguments sake) there is no benefit to the child, only risk. and society doesn't benefit one bit. natural immunity is far more robust than these shots. if anything, society would benefit from children getting the virus and contributing to herd immunity. my argument from very early on in the pandemic was that the quickest, best outcome for society was to protect the compromised if possible and for everyone else to allow the virus to run its course. what we have done and continue to do is madness. shutting down the economy, bankrupting individuals and businesses, and even now threatening people to get a shot that many of them do not need? i'm sorry to say but this is pure evil. the cost that we are all going to pay for this going forward almost cannot be measured.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

all typical BS links to try and push your narrative. Go somewhere else.......No one cares about your opinion.

This is why I only post links that dispute my beliefs.

 

[Gregs24]

do you have children? i'm curious as to your answer and what effect it has on your opinion.
it is well understood that the virus poses essentially no risk to children, especially now as each variant gets weaker.
what kind of parent would sign their own children up for a shot that offers no upside, and which the long term effects are unknown? i would be praying every night that my children suffered no consequences as a result because otherwise, how could i live with myself? no disrespect towards your sister but her opinion is flawed scientifically and morally. using the numbers you provided (i realize they were for arguments sake) there is no benefit to the child, only risk. and society doesn't benefit one bit. natural immunity is far more robust than these shots. if anything, society would benefit from children getting the virus and contributing to herd immunity. my argument from very early on in the pandemic was that the quickest, best outcome for society was to protect the compromised if possible and for everyone else to allow the virus to run its course. what we have done and continue to do is madness. shutting down the economy, bankrupting individuals and businesses, and even now threatening people to get a shot that many of them do not need? i'm sorry to say but this is pure evil. the cost that we are all going to pay for this going forward almost cannot be measured.

Quite a few errors in your post.

Herd immunity isn't and never was the intention with the vaccine - it is not a sterilising vaccine so will never be able to do this. Reinfection with new strains will continue forever. COVID is really nothing new immunologically, there have been coronaviruses around for centuries, there is one still circulating today that causes the common cold that originated 120 years ago!

'Long term effects,' time for data not guesswork, 8 billion doses given so far. What are these 'potential side effects then ? You cannot spread fear about something that literally doesn't exist when the benefits of vaccination are clear and proven

Natural immunity is NOT more robust, in fact around 30% of natural infections provide no or negligible immunity to subsequent infection. Multiple posts on this subject with clear data comparing natural v vaccine v multiple doses of vaccine v combined natural and vaccine. This is not guesswork there is clear data on this.

Do you vaccinate your children against polio, tetanus, mumps, rubella and the myriad other diseases now controlled by vaccines? Why is this one suddenly so evil and political - it isn't.

Long COVID still affects children and some do get sick and die. Regarding the pros and cons, why not post details from a respected source. No need for you to pray (or anybody for that matter), just use data to make informed decisions. My children are older and vaccinated. In the UK we are not vaccinating young children, and I suspect it will stay that way on the current evidence with 'omicron' virulence.

Should children be vaccinated against COVID-19? | Archives of Disease in Childhood (bmj.com)

Letting the pandemic 'run it's course' - easily said when you are not responsible for the outcome. Without the vaccines the death toll would be horrific. The pure evil is those belittling the virus and spreading gossip and falsehoods.

 

[lacanteen]

 

[sk47]

Natural immunity is NOT more robust, in fact around 30% of natural infections provide no or negligible immunity to subsequent infection. Multiple posts on this subject with clear data comparing natural v vaccine v multiple doses of vaccine v combined natural and vaccine. This is not guesswork there is clear data on this.

Harvard-Affiliated Study of Healthcare Workers Evidences Robust Natural Immunity — rupreparing
“zero infections in 74,557 person-days for those who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 as compared to 49 infections out of 830,084 person-days for fully vaccinated patients. This study provides strong evidence as to the robustness of natural immunity.”

“healthcare workers that were infected previously appear to have greater immunity—the data suggests they aren’t a threat to transmit the pathogen.”

“The study hasn’t been peer-reviewed as of yet thus shouldn’t be used for evidence until the findings can be substantiated.”

“Importantly the study authors report that independently they found absolute no reinfection among those healthcare workers who had prior COVID-19 infections, contributing to 74,557 re-infection-free person days, “adding to the evidence base for the robustness of naturally acquired immunity.””
CONCLUSION
“The study authors write that to their knowledge this is “one of the fist in healthcare setings regarding continued vaccine effectiveness during delta variant predominance.” In addition to exposing robust natural immunity the study found vaccine effectiveness of 76% against the delta variant.”

Yale Study: Natural Immunity Protects Against COVID Three Times Longer Than Vaccine | CauseACTION Clarion
YALE STUDY: NATURAL IMMUNITY PROTECTS AGAINST COVID THREE TIMES LONGER THAN VACCINE

“To their dismay, the Yale School of Public Health just concluded that immunity acquired by COVID-19 infection lasts three times longer and is stronger than that provided by vaccination. Naturally, the Yale Daily News downplayed the info under the headline, “COVID-19 reinfection is likely among unvaccinated individuals, Yale study finds.””

“The Yale study concluded that the risk of COVID-19 reinfection stands at 5% at three months after recovery and decreases to 50% at 17 months. By contrast, COVID-19 vaccine protection against infection can wane to a mere 20% as early as five months after full vaccination.”

“The Yale study joins the ever-growing compendium of studies that attest to the superiority of natural immunity over vaccination for protection from COVID infection. It’s worth clicking over to the linked article, because you probably had no idea there was already so much Science! proving the point.”

 

[Atlas1]

Quite a few errors in your post.

Herd immunity isn't and never was the intention with the vaccine - it is not a sterilising vaccine so will never be able to do this. Reinfection with new strains will continue forever. COVID is really nothing new immunologically, there have been coronaviruses around for centuries, there is one still circulating today that causes the common cold that originated 120 years ago!

where did i say that was the intention of the vaccine? rather, herd immunity IS the goal of society. at least for those that want to move on from this. anyone profiting financially or through celebrity status may feel differently.......
yes coronaviruses have been around and will continue to be around. you wouldn't know that based on our reaction to this one however.

'Long term effects,' time for data not guesswork, 8 billion doses given so far. What are these 'potential side effects then ? You cannot spread fear about something that literally doesn't exist when the benefits of vaccination are clear and proven

this one i'll admit is tough to respond to. my instinct is to insult you but i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. communication by forum post is not always clear so i'll grant you that in my response.
8 billion doses given so far, ok. let us go with Jan '21 as the start date for this program. we are not yet 12 months into vaccine distribution. certainly you understood that by long term effects, I'm referring to something beyond a calendar year. this type of therapeutic treatment has never been tried before on this type of scale. you don't even raise an eyebrow that there could be even a chance at some kind of long term negative consequence to those involved in this experiment? how difficult do you think it would be to create a list of vaccines, medications, and therapies that we found out much after their introduction that there were side effects, sometimes particularly nasty ones? but this vaccine is different you say. any reason to believe that?
I'm sorry but it is not my responsibility to provide a list of the potential side effects. that is on the shoulders of those creating it, and now those mandating it. if a list cannot be given due to lack of long term understanding, perhaps mandates should be reevaluated don't you think?
I am not spreading fear. And you don't get to say because long term effects are not yet known, they don't exist. If I point a gun at your head and start to pull the trigger, should you feel comfortable as I haven't proven to you that it is loaded? no, i think some skepticism is perfectly healthy there as well.

Natural immunity is NOT more robust, in fact around 30% of natural infections provide no or negligible immunity to subsequent infection. Multiple posts on this subject with clear data comparing natural v vaccine v multiple doses of vaccine v combined natural and vaccine. This is not guesswork there is clear data on this.

so, is it safe to assume you think Israel's study on both vaccine and infection related immunity is bad data? because their conclusion found that previous infection was not just more robust, but vaccine immunity was 13x more likely to result in "breakthough" infection. not only did the study show that natural immunity was stronger, but that vaccine efficacy drops off far quicker as well. it would be worth checking on both moderna and phizer's similar studies. unfortunately that will be difficult now that the placebo group has largely been tainted by the subjects choosing to get vaccinated.

Do you vaccinate your children against polio, tetanus, mumps, rubella and the myriad other diseases now controlled by vaccines? Why is this one suddenly so evil and political - it isn't.

i am very much pro vaccine and it is a weak argument made by simple minded people to accuse someone of being anti-vax or anti-science if they are hesitant about these specific vaccines (not accusing you of this, just making a point). the vaccines you listed were not released this year. i was given all of those vaccines as a child and am grateful for it. thankfully, there were decades of research and administration of them before it was my turn. you know, long term study my first child is on the way and will absolutely be vaccinated. he will not be getting this shot however. i will not sign up my son for a vaccine trial and i won't apologize for it either. you mentioned the needs of society earlier and while i am onboard with sacrifice for the greater good, my young child will not be taking risks so to advance scientific understanding. you or anyone else is free to however. God help you if there are consequences to that decision.
we can and should stop playing games about why this is political. it became political the day it appeared. i'm old enough to remember when one side of the political environment said that even referencing where it came from made that person a racist. they even went as far as to suggest that people go to chinatown because it was nothing to fear. quickly it was understood that like everything else, it can be used politically to advance a number of causes and off we went. find me one subject in our country that is not made political and i'll prove you a liar lol.

Long COVID still affects children and some do get sick and die. Regarding the pros and cons, why not post details from a respected source. No need for you to pray (or anybody for that matter), just use data to make informed decisions. My children are older and vaccinated. In the UK we are not vaccinating young children, and I suspect it will stay that way on the current evidence with 'omicron' virulence.

i fully admit i have not done a deep enough dive into the concept of long covid but i will say that i have many suspicions about it. the number 1 most common symptom i've read about is depression. sorry, that doesn't count. that very well could be from the shutdowns and devastation we have forced onto our society. it could be from the panic porn shown on the news 24/7. it could just be a large number of people are, forgive the term, pussies, and need something to cry about or identify themselves as victims. wouldn't be the first we've seen of that.
i am using data to make my decisions. the risk to children from covid is essentially zero. the risk from the vaccine is at least present. using your numbers from the discussion with your sister, the vaccine absolutely presents a bigger risk and that doesn't even include potential long term risks. not getting the shot based on that is using data my friend. i am 37 and i have not taken the shots. i do not want covid to kill me obviously but instead of reacting emotionally about it, i did some reading. at my age, with a healthy weight and no health issues, there was no reason to rush out and get the vaccine. I've also tested 2x this year for antibodies and both were positive. thats enough of a source of info for me. yes i will grant that we can find stories of someone that was young and fit and dropped dead of covid. but it is extraordinarily rare. this is a virus that is while still mostly survivable, poses risks to those that are of an advanced age, overweight, or suffering from heart/lung/diabetic complications. everyone in that group should probably get vaxxed without hesitation. everyone else has little to worry about, according to the data.

Letting the pandemic 'run it's course' - easily said when you are not responsible for the outcome. Without the vaccines the death toll would be horrific. The pure evil is those belittling the virus and spreading gossip and falsehoods.

i am responsible for the outcome, as much as you are anyway. we are all going to foot the bill for the enormous costs we have incurred by way of debt and economic destruction. i cant even add up the other costs and its too upsetting to even attempt. how many AA meetings were shut down for over a year.? how many lives will be destroyed because of addiction relapse, or new addictions forming during all of this? how many regular checkups or cancer screenings were postponed that will result in death? how do children recover 1-2 years of lost progress in school during some of the most important years of their lives? all of this cost, to prolong the lives of the most vulnerable? some trade off. i can promise you that were i much older or fat, i would rather take the risk of dying than burden those i care about with these costs.
your comment about the death toll is easily disproven and reeks of a pharmaceutical sales rep i'm sorry to say. how else can you explain that more people have died since the vaccines were introduced? we were told the vaccines were our way out of the pandemic. since their introduction, we have seen an even weaker variant of the virus (which seems to be effecting vaxxed more than unvaxxed interestingly enough) yet higher numbers of dead.
with all due respect we're going to have to toughen up a little if we want to beat, or shall i say live with, the virus. "belittling the virus" is a term that doesn't mean anything and doesn't get us anywhere. the only thing that matters is telling the truth. the truth is the virus is almost entirely survivable and we have destroyed far more lives than have been lost in combating the pandemic. speaking of falsehoods, what should we make of our CDC and other associated government agencies that have been wrong time and time again on this subject? i know, trust the science and all that. but they were not for masks. then for masks. not just for them but if you didn't wear even a cloth rag over your face people were going to die all around you. however just yesterday our epidemiology experts at CNN announced that masks really have been found to not do anything. i can only assume this is new guidance being handed down by the scientists? and our quarantine period dropped from 10 days to 5. Nevermind the timing of Delta's ceo calling for a 5 day change.......seems at least a little strange that all of a sudden upon his request, the science changed dont you think? and we still haven't heard a single word from anyone of importance mentioning the real risk factors such as obesity which we have a major problem with already. after 2 years you would think they would have gotten around to that, or at least settled some of the science right? strange how that all keeps changing. I'm sorry but when the "experts" are only caught being consistent when it comes to changing their stories and demonstrating in their personal lives that they don't in fact fear the virus, I won't be compelled to take a new type of therapeutic that has not been tested to my satisfaction. others may feel its the right decision for them and more power to them. but accusing the rest of us of ignoring science, not recognizing the virus, or anything else.......all of your work is still ahead of you to prove those charges.

 

[Gregs24]

where did i say that was the intention of the vaccine? rather, herd immunity IS the goal of society. at least for those that want to move on from this. anyone profiting financially or through celebrity status may feel differently.......
yes coronaviruses have been around and will continue to be around. you wouldn't know that based on our reaction to this one however.


this one i'll admit is tough to respond to. my instinct is to insult you but i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. communication by forum post is not always clear so i'll grant you that in my response.
8 billion doses given so far, ok. let us go with Jan '21 as the start date for this program. we are not yet 12 months into vaccine distribution. certainly you understood that by long term effects, I'm referring to something beyond a calendar year. this type of therapeutic treatment has never been tried before on this type of scale. you don't even raise an eyebrow that there could be even a chance at some kind of long term negative consequence to those involved in this experiment? how difficult do you think it would be to create a list of vaccines, medications, and therapies that we found out much after their introduction that there were side effects, sometimes particularly nasty ones? but this vaccine is different you say. any reason to believe that?
I'm sorry but it is not my responsibility to provide a list of the potential side effects. that is on the shoulders of those creating it, and now those mandating it. if a list cannot be given due to lack of long term understanding, perhaps mandates should be reevaluated don't you think?
I am not spreading fear. And you don't get to say because long term effects are not yet known, they don't exist. If I point a gun at your head and start to pull the trigger, should you feel comfortable as I haven't proven to you that it is loaded? no, i think some skepticism is perfectly healthy there as well.


so, is it safe to assume you think Israel's study on both vaccine and infection related immunity is bad data? because their conclusion found that previous infection was not just more robust, but vaccine immunity was 13x more likely to result in "breakthough" infection. not only did the study show that natural immunity was stronger, but that vaccine efficacy drops off far quicker as well. it would be worth checking on both moderna and phizer's similar studies. unfortunately that will be difficult now that the placebo group has largely been tainted by the subjects choosing to get vaccinated.


i am very much pro vaccine and it is a weak argument made by simple minded people to accuse someone of being anti-vax or anti-science if they are hesitant about these specific vaccines (not accusing you of this, just making a point). the vaccines you listed were not released this year. i was given all of those vaccines as a child and am grateful for it. thankfully, there were decades of research and administration of them before it was my turn. you know, long term study my first child is on the way and will absolutely be vaccinated. he will not be getting this shot however. i will not sign up my son for a vaccine trial and i won't apologize for it either. you mentioned the needs of society earlier and while i am onboard with sacrifice for the greater good, my young child will not be taking risks so to advance scientific understanding. you or anyone else is free to however. God help you if there are consequences to that decision.
we can and should stop playing games about why this is political. it became political the day it appeared. i'm old enough to remember when one side of the political environment said that even referencing where it came from made that person a racist. they even went as far as to suggest that people go to chinatown because it was nothing to fear. quickly it was understood that like everything else, it can be used politically to advance a number of causes and off we went. find me one subject in our country that is not made political and i'll prove you a liar lol.


i fully admit i have not done a deep enough dive into the concept of long covid but i will say that i have many suspicions about it. the number 1 most common symptom i've read about is depression. sorry, that doesn't count. that very well could be from the shutdowns and devastation we have forced onto our society. it could be from the panic porn shown on the news 24/7. it could just be a large number of people are, forgive the term, pussies, and need something to cry about or identify themselves as victims. wouldn't be the first we've seen of that.
i am using data to make my decisions. the risk to children from covid is essentially zero. the risk from the vaccine is at least present. using your numbers from the discussion with your sister, the vaccine absolutely presents a bigger risk and that doesn't even include potential long term risks. not getting the shot based on that is using data my friend. i am 37 and i have not taken the shots. i do not want covid to kill me obviously but instead of reacting emotionally about it, i did some reading. at my age, with a healthy weight and no health issues, there was no reason to rush out and get the vaccine. I've also tested 2x this year for antibodies and both were positive. thats enough of a source of info for me. yes i will grant that we can find stories of someone that was young and fit and dropped dead of covid. but it is extraordinarily rare. this is a virus that is while still mostly survivable, poses risks to those that are of an advanced age, overweight, or suffering from heart/lung/diabetic complications. everyone in that group should probably get vaxxed without hesitation. everyone else has little to worry about, according to the data.


i am responsible for the outcome, as much as you are anyway. we are all going to foot the bill for the enormous costs we have incurred by way of debt and economic destruction. i cant even add up the other costs and its too upsetting to even attempt. how many AA meetings were shut down for over a year.? how many lives will be destroyed because of addiction relapse, or new addictions forming during all of this? how many regular checkups or cancer screenings were postponed that will result in death? how do children recover 1-2 years of lost progress in school during some of the most important years of their lives? all of this cost, to prolong the lives of the most vulnerable? some trade off. i can promise you that were i much older or fat, i would rather take the risk of dying than burden those i care about with these costs.
your comment about the death toll is easily disproven and reeks of a pharmaceutical sales rep i'm sorry to say. how else can you explain that more people have died since the vaccines were introduced? we were told the vaccines were our way out of the pandemic. since their introduction, we have seen an even weaker variant of the virus (which seems to be effecting vaxxed more than unvaxxed interestingly enough) yet higher numbers of dead.
with all due respect we're going to have to toughen up a little if we want to beat, or shall i say live with, the virus. "belittling the virus" is a term that doesn't mean anything and doesn't get us anywhere. the only thing that matters is telling the truth. the truth is the virus is almost entirely survivable and we have destroyed far more lives than have been lost in combating the pandemic. speaking of falsehoods, what should we make of our CDC and other associated government agencies that have been wrong time and time again on this subject? i know, trust the science and all that. but they were not for masks. then for masks. not just for them but if you didn't wear even a cloth rag over your face people were going to die all around you. however just yesterday our epidemiology experts at CNN announced that masks really have been found to not do anything. i can only assume this is new guidance being handed down by the scientists? and our quarantine period dropped from 10 days to 5. Nevermind the timing of Delta's ceo calling for a 5 day change.......seems at least a little strange that all of a sudden upon his request, the science changed dont you think? and we still haven't heard a single word from anyone of importance mentioning the real risk factors such as obesity which we have a major problem with already. after 2 years you would think they would have gotten around to that, or at least settled some of the science right? strange how that all keeps changing. I'm sorry but when the "experts" are only caught being consistent when it comes to changing their stories and demonstrating in their personal lives that they don't in fact fear the virus, I won't be compelled to take a new type of therapeutic that has not been tested to my satisfaction. others may feel its the right decision for them and more power to them. but accusing the rest of us of ignoring science, not recognizing the virus, or anything else.......all of your work is still ahead of you to prove those charges.

You would think me mentioning a coronavirus that had been around for 120 years that was still going strong would be enough to be clear that herd immunity will never happen.

As I pointed out - US petty politics do not interest me - the rest of the world doesn't engage in those silly games and politics play no part in this. Again in the UK all political spheres agree on the benefits of vaccination so politics has no real impact on policy.

A question for you - how long do we wait for these potential side effects? 5 years, 10 years, 50 years ? What do we do in the meantime? Vaccinate people as we are or what do you suggest ?

Describing sufferers of long COVID as 'pussies' - that says all you need to about who and what you are. I suggest you read this and educate yourself.

Characterizing long COVID in an international cohort: 7 months of symptoms and their impact - EClinicalMedicine (thelancet.com)

Much of the other stuff you posted is just US centric political stuff that has no interest to me. I don't live in the US and COVID is apolitical and global. If you get confused by some of the stuff in the US look elsewhere for your information where we don't play silly games.

 

[Atlas1]

You would think me mentioning a coronavirus that had been around for 120 years that was still going strong would be enough to be clear that herd immunity will never happen.

if its been around for 120 years, and herd immunity will never happen, why are we going to all this trouble? the world's population has exploded in the last 120 years so can we agree to just live with this and get back to normal?

As I pointed out - US petty politics do not interest me - the rest of the world doesn't engage in those silly games and politics play no part in this. Again in the UK all political spheres agree on the benefits of vaccination so politics has no real impact on policy.

ah, the rest of the world doesn't engage in this type of behavior! that's good to know. for a second i was under the impression there were politicians all around the world. i didn't realize only the US has them, and only the US has self serving ones at that....that will exploit any situation in front of them for personal gain. silly me.
back in the real world, we understand that just because all political spheres in a given region agree on something, doesn't make it true. furthermore, just because you claim benefits of vaccination doesn't make it so. we were specifically talking about children no? you couldn't promise there wouldn't be adverse long term reactions and your only suggestion is it possibly could help society. thats quite a burden to place on the backs of other peoples children.

A question for you - how long do we wait for these potential side effects? 5 years, 10 years, 50 years ? What do we do in the meantime? Vaccinate people as we are or what do you suggest ?

call me old fashioned but i've never wanted to be the first in line for any type of medical procedure. wouldn't you like to give at least some time before those that essentially have no risk from the virus are forced into getting these shots? i fail to see the downside for them.
in the meantime we can do what we should have done all along. get back to living. there is inherent risk on this planet nonstop. everytime you get in your car you face the reality that a drunk driver could hit you. this is a more likely cause of death for a young, healthy person than covid. everytime you go to sleep you could have a heart attack and not wake up. don't worry, i wont make a vaccine/myocarditis joke here.
at some point the adults have to stop sacrificing the future to save the unhealthiest of our population. its selfish and disgusting how cowardly we have behaved since this all started. there are therapeutics of all kinds now. you are free to take as many of them as you would like. others can decide not to. if you have the luxury of hiding at home for the rest of your life and care to do so, fine. but you nor anyone else get to mandate what i do with my body or what kind of life i get to lead if i don't agree to your medical procedures. asking questions and being skeptical is supposed to be a foundational tenet of scientific discovery, but look how anyone that goes against the narrative is treated. it creates only more skepticism so congratulations, i guess?

Describing sufferers of long COVID as 'pussies' - that says all you need to about who and what you are. I suggest you read this and educate yourself.

i clearly did not call sufferers of long covid pussies. i pointed out that SOME people could be pussies and don't actually have anything wrong with them. please do not try and twist things i say into something they are not. maybe you should reread what i wrote if you still don't understand what i said because i'm pretty confident my words were clear.

Much of the other stuff you posted is just US centric political stuff that has no interest to me. I don't live in the US and COVID is apolitical and global. If you get confused by some of the stuff in the US look elsewhere for your information where we don't play silly games.

again, covid has been political since the day it left china. it will always be political. i do have a crystal ball and looking into it i can tell you with absolute certainty the next pandemic, and there will be one, will also be political. welcome to earth, where a bunch of human beings that do human stuff live.
as far as looking elsewhere, you may have been busy misconstruing what i said about long covid and missed where i pointed to data from Israel that supports natural immunity over vaccine immunity. maybe you think Israel also plays silly games, should i find a different country you approve of? speaking of Israel, there seems to be some strong debate there regarding another round of booster shots. you wouldn't happen to know why would you?

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