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Jimboy2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2015
- Threads
- 65
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- 2,765
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- Location
- Denmead, Waterlooville
- Vehicle(s)
- Mazda Mx5 :(
GT350 header install looks a ball ache too
McDoodle
Well-Known Member
[MENTION=13598]Gibbo205[/MENTION]. Hi buddy. I've seen an M3 trackday car I'm thinking about going to take a look at, hence I have a few M3 related questions, if that's OK?Drive careful they say!
I left the SMG in auto which killed the fun initially as it up-changed to 2nd. Also found a country road on the way to work, abandoned and slushed, so I had great enjoyment drifting from side to side on my way up the hill at some speed. Gotta love winter, though I did not love it first thing, could not get out my street this morning due to the thick snow.
How is general reliability and particularly reliability/robustness of the SMG?
Is the engine stock (internally) except for the tune?
You have KW coilovers on yours, right? I assume that makes a big difference over standard, or did you never have a standard set up anyway?
Brakes are CSL on yours? ..... what pads/fluid is that running? Do you have any kind of bias system?
Cheers ....
OP
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Gibbo205
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #173
M3 wise some stuff to look out for:
01-52: Earlier revision, none LED rear lights, MK20 DSC. (Some late 52 plate had LED rears and MK60 DSC).
53-06: Apart from rare examples all had MK60 DSC, LED rears etc.
05-06: CSL headers as standard, worth around 5-7HP.
Power wise: I have CSL air box, map sensor setup (same as CSL), CSL Map plus remap and de-cats. Car went from 336BHP upto around 365BHP on a good day, on the NC500 it was quicker in a straight line than all the Mustang's, 666mac even played dirty by ejecting body parts at me to prevent an overtake by the wasp. ;)
So MK20 vs MK60, standard DSC is a little less intrusive on MK20. However with MK60 module you can flash all the CSL DSC settings to the car with a laptop, essentially free coding so then you will have M track mode, which makes the DSC far less intrusive allowing wheel spin and some slip angle, great if your not a driving god but want some fun.
The other one is LED lights, nice to have as look good, but earlier models can be retrofitted and coded.
MK20 however cannot be upgraded to MK60, well you could be you'd have to re-route all brake lines etc. so would cost a small fortune.
Only engine issues are:
- ROD Bearing, at 100k miles you should change the shells out, lots of specialist do this now, highly recommended for track car, keeps your bottom end safe.
- Head gasket failure: Extremely rare but can help on cars not serviced or had regular oil changes, easy to check for though with simple compression test across all six cylinders which if memory serves me right should be 185-195psi pressure across all cylinders, the gasket has really small gaps so it can break between cylinders which will register as low PSI over effect cylinders. Of course driving car, listening for pinging or if it feels slow etc. too
- SMG: I personally love it and never had an issue, though at 99k miles my clutch/flywheel exploded after a track day, but it had endured 99k miles and 30+ track days. I replaced everything with BMW original at a cost of around ÂŁ600 plus ÂŁ400 fitting, so 1k total.
Reliability that is it, they are really very bullit proof, but SMG you need to try it, some love it, some hate it and some have no issues and some have lots of issues. I love it personally hence why I got it again after owning my CSL. Plus you can flash all M3 SMG to the CSL software on gearbox.
Suspension wise:
Stock / CSL stock: Stock is soft and nice on road car, way too soft for track but still very capable. CSL is a touch firmer and lower, great on road, much better on track.
Cheapo BC, HDC coilovers: Great for track work, but noisy and not so great ride quality for road work, but at under 1k for coilovers what to expect.
KW / Intrax: Clubsport level kits, top of range, incredible on track, superb ride quality on road, really transforms car, particular in wet when correctly setup.
Brake wise:
Stock / CSL stock: OK for the road, shit on track!
AP 6 pot front (can do 4 pot rear): Awesome brakes, but very firm aggressive pedal, like the Mustang.
Alcon 6 pot front (can do 4 pot rear): I have Alcon CSL limited setup, but current Alcon is same just no CSL branding. 6 pot front, 4 pot rear, bias is spot on, no need to adjust or mess with anything and long pedal so very progressive.
I love mine, in the wet it will hassle a Golf R, EVO etc on the public road its that bloody good, on track its bonkers, hassles GTR's with ease.
The E46 though old has a magical chassis setup, puts the Mustang to shame it was that good, or its a case of the Mustang is that shit, LOL, you decide. ;)
McDoodle
Well-Known Member
Cheers for the information buddy .... very useful. The one I'm looking at is December 2002 car but it has been upgraded to CSL ECU, SMG2 and CSL software (as well as CSL intake etc) - so I'm guessing that would be the MK60 DSC? I assume there is some way to disable any nanny systems completely? It also has coilovers but I'm not sure what make. Not sure what the brakes are either, but now I've got your info I know what I'm looking for! 
What would be reasonable money for such a car do you think? ÂŁ11k - 12k sound about right? .... :shrug:
What would be reasonable money for such a car do you think? ÂŁ11k - 12k sound about right? .... :shrug:
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OP
Gibbo205
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #175
Cheers for the information buddy .... very useful. The one I'm looking at is December 2002 car but it has been upgraded to CSL ECU, SMG2 and CSL software (as well as CSL intake etc) - so I'm guessing that would be the MK60 DSC? I assume there is some way to disable any nanny systems completely? It also has coilovers but I'm not sure what make. Not sure what the brakes are either, but now I've got your info I know what I'm looking for!
What would be reasonable money for such a car do you think? ÂŁ11k - 12k sound about right? .... :shrug:
Show me a link.
M3's sell based on quality and 3rd party stuff, I've being offered 18k for mine and its a Feb 2002 car with 120k miles.
My car has all CSL software, but of course no M track mode on DSC.
My car is just on or off!
MK60 car can be on, m track or off.
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McDoodle
Well-Known Member
OK, cool. Sounds like this is about the right money to me then, given that buying anything like this has an element of risk attached to it as you don't really know how much abuse the car may have been subjected to - but it seems like it's been fairly well looked after. Only a first hand inspection will reveal the truth I guess.Show me a link.
M3's sell based on quality and 3rd party stuff, I've being offered 18k for mine and its a Feb 2002 car with 120k miles.
My car has all CSL software, but of course no M track mode on DSC.
My car is just on or off!
MK60 car can be on, m track or off.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/bmw-m3-3-2-2dr/6316508
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Gibbo205
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #177
Mmmmm its nice but also looks a bit rough. :(
Its steel grey which is rare and gorgeous colour!
Bad points though:
- BC coilovers, Chinese cheap tat, not to bad on track bit harsh on road
- Brakes are BMW performance, OK but AP/Alcons in another league
- 2002 car and 140k miles.
I'd offer 10k, see what they say!
Check rear subframe was properly plated and welded too, they mention repair but no detail. Also check it has map sensor.
Drive it, because it should be 360BHP area and around 1300kg, in which case particular in 2nd and 3rd gear it should pull silly fast and feel quicker than Mustang, higher gears not so much and remember to rev it out all way to 8000rpm, it should pull there with no issue as peak power is 7900rpm on a CSL mapped car, mine accelerates silly quick to 160mph and keeps pulling pretty fast to around 185mph indicated, absolutely rock stable at such speeds too.
If you can get for 10-11k, I'd then budget for:
- KW Clubsport at 2-3k, sell BC shit or like ÂŁ500
- AP 6/4 brakes at 3-4k front and rear
- Tidy it up, some fake carpets, rear cage etc. to make harnesses safe at correct angle so you don't snap your back in an accident.
Always plenty of decent coilover and brake setups for sale second hand, get joined up on M3cutters and in the meantime check my build thread here:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67470&highlight=track+car
I love mine and its a lovely thing to drive even as a daily now I've got it setup proper, at NC500 it was a bit meh as a road car, but now its totally transformed, huge amount more grip, lot more comfier etc. due to geo change, coilover settings and addition of the cage.
McDoodle
Well-Known Member
Cheers buddy .... great info. Yes, I've checked out the coilovers online and rapidly reached the conclusion that they'd need replacing! I was going to ask you about a cage - do you have just a rear cage then, or full? With a cage I take it there will be a cross member in the rear to attach the belts to?- BC coilovers, Chinese cheap tat, not to bad on track bit harsh on road
- Brakes are BMW performance, OK but AP/Alcons in another league
- 2002 car and 140k miles.
I'd offer 10k, see what they say!
Yes, 140k is a bit high, but I was assuming that most of the original road car bits have been replaced with trackday stuff - but as always, a first hand inspection will be required to be sure of anything. It's way down in Hampshire so ultimately I guess I just wanted to know whether it was potentially a semi-decent car before I went all the way down to look at it ..... so from the limited info of the ad would you say it's worth going to take a look at? It seems like it could be a half-decent starting point, rather than buying a road car and converting that?
McDoodle
Well-Known Member
Ah! .... yes - I've now seen the cage on your build thread. That's exactly what I was thinking of. Cool. I'll let this get back to being a video thread now!
Cheers ....
stevec
Well-Known Member
You dont know anything about ride on lawnmowers do you?M3 wise some stuff to look out for:
01-52: Earlier revision, none LED rear lights, MK20 DSC. (Some late 52 plate had LED rears and MK60 DSC).
53-06: Apart from rare examples all had MK60 DSC, LED rears etc.
05-06: CSL headers as standard, worth around 5-7HP.
Power wise: I have CSL air box, map sensor setup (same as CSL), CSL Map plus remap and de-cats. Car went from 336BHP upto around 365BHP on a good day, on the NC500 it was quicker in a straight line than all the Mustang's, 666mac even played dirty by ejecting body parts at me to prevent an overtake by the wasp. ;)
So MK20 vs MK60, standard DSC is a little less intrusive on MK20. However with MK60 module you can flash all the CSL DSC settings to the car with a laptop, essentially free coding so then you will have M track mode, which makes the DSC far less intrusive allowing wheel spin and some slip angle, great if your not a driving god but want some fun.
The other one is LED lights, nice to have as look good, but earlier models can be retrofitted and coded.
MK20 however cannot be upgraded to MK60, well you could be you'd have to re-route all brake lines etc. so would cost a small fortune.
Only engine issues are:
- ROD Bearing, at 100k miles you should change the shells out, lots of specialist do this now, highly recommended for track car, keeps your bottom end safe.
- Head gasket failure: Extremely rare but can help on cars not serviced or had regular oil changes, easy to check for though with simple compression test across all six cylinders which if memory serves me right should be 185-195psi pressure across all cylinders, the gasket has really small gaps so it can break between cylinders which will register as low PSI over effect cylinders. Of course driving car, listening for pinging or if it feels slow etc. too
- SMG: I personally love it and never had an issue, though at 99k miles my clutch/flywheel exploded after a track day, but it had endured 99k miles and 30+ track days. I replaced everything with BMW original at a cost of around ÂŁ600 plus ÂŁ400 fitting, so 1k total.
Reliability that is it, they are really very bullit proof, but SMG you need to try it, some love it, some hate it and some have no issues and some have lots of issues. I love it personally hence why I got it again after owning my CSL. Plus you can flash all M3 SMG to the CSL software on gearbox.
Suspension wise:
Stock / CSL stock: Stock is soft and nice on road car, way too soft for track but still very capable. CSL is a touch firmer and lower, great on road, much better on track.
Cheapo BC, HDC coilovers: Great for track work, but noisy and not so great ride quality for road work, but at under 1k for coilovers what to expect.
KW / Intrax: Clubsport level kits, top of range, incredible on track, superb ride quality on road, really transforms car, particular in wet when correctly setup.
Brake wise:
Stock / CSL stock: OK for the road, shit on track!
AP 6 pot front (can do 4 pot rear): Awesome brakes, but very firm aggressive pedal, like the Mustang.
Alcon 6 pot front (can do 4 pot rear): I have Alcon CSL limited setup, but current Alcon is same just no CSL branding. 6 pot front, 4 pot rear, bias is spot on, no need to adjust or mess with anything and long pedal so very progressive.
I love mine, in the wet it will hassle a Golf R, EVO etc on the public road its that bloody good, on track its bonkers, hassles GTR's with ease.
The E46 though old has a magical chassis setup, puts the Mustang to shame it was that good, or its a case of the Mustang is that shit, LOL, you decide. ;)
My Murray wont start after the winter hibernation. Tried the battery, hit the starter with a hammer and jiggled some wires, checked seat and 'blades engaged' switches but nothing....just a click.
So I went indoors and watched tele.
Oh, and its got a flat tyre (only at the bottom).
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