Long start issue after Paxton install

[Process]

I had ID1000 and JMS Plug and Play bap, no cranking issues.

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[jvandy50]

I had ID1000 and JMS Plug and Play bap, no cranking issues.

what tune?

 

[Chevpwr]

I had ID 1000's KB BAP with two different tuners and had the long start problem.
The car is currently in the shop at TSS getting ID1300's and a Fore fuel system, hopefully something with the new parts will "fix" it.

 

[Process]

what tune?

ID data is plug and play. They provide what is needed for tuners to use. Most Ford tuners are completely lazy and spend very little time being innovative on their own and all use the same injector data.

 

[sigintel]

Damn, some body help this guy. lol.

Vapor at injector from vapor or liquid leak out into IM?

Is there a check valve after the pump?

If you flash to stock tune and then do a cold start (dont drive around on FI on stock tune please- heck dont even rev engine). Will if start correct?

On stock tune, does ECM cycle injectors to void/eliminate any vapor or cooked fuel before cranking? Does your tuner address this?

The injector might not seal perfectly while static and allow vapor out.

Vapor pressure of fuel is the single most important property for cold-start. If the injector leaks vapor then the fuel charge immediately in the injector on start has crappy vapor pressure profile (distillation profile). The fuel can be heated and allowed to off gas and reduce its vapor pressure sitting in a vapor leaky warm injector.

If you rapidly cool the IM, fuel rails, etc before letting the car sit overnight, you might decrease the selective cook off of fuel. If the injectors are vapor leaking, then time is the enemy.

You could check this. Drive car easy on way home. As soon as you shut car down to sit overnight, open hood and run garden hose over injector rails and IM and get them cool. Dont spray, just use low pressure, going for cooling not ruining electronics.

Try to restart immediately.

Turn off immediately after restart attempt whether good or bad.

Let car sit overnight and then note start in morning.

If the injectors are just vapor leaky, this might be exasperated by higher temp heat soak: lighter distillates (needed for cold start) off gas. You are then basically trying to cold start with diesel until fresh fuel from rail gets to injector.

 

[beefcake]

you can't run a different injector for a s/c setup, on a stock tune for an n/a car

 

[sigintel]

Good point

you can't run a different injector for a s/c setup, on a stock tune for an n/a car

Oh hell, brain fart. Posting while on a work call..

If you stay near idle you just need tune for that size injector yea?

That extra crank on cold start prolly? doesn't hurt a thing... But for those that like to master the hardware they play with it might be interesting if not freakn annoying. I'd say drink a beer and ignore it but...

Whats your thoughts on this?

 

[Process]

you can't run a different injector for a s/c setup, on a stock tune for an n/a car

The car will most certainly start and even find an idle.

 

[beefcake]

The car will most certainly start and even find an idle.

i should clarify, yes, it may start and idle ok, it may not start and idle ok,

but it is not recommended to run injectors not set up in a tune

 

[Jeff_oddo]

Jeff,

I know it's intermittent but have you tried starting the car with the pedal to the floor when it's hot? This is typically a "flood clear" it'll keep the injectors from firing during cranking.

If this works, it'll give you more info on the car is fat on hot starts, if it doesn't fire you know it's a delivery issue when hot. You could very well have an injector dripping, does the car puff smoke when it finally fires? Any smells?

I'll try that... I don't see smoke when it does fire up.

 

[Jeff_oddo]

i have seen this intermittently on all types of s/c and turbos over the last 6 years on these cars.

it's not a "paxton" issue. it's not an injector issue, and i do not believe it to be a tune issue.

I believe more than likely, an issue with the way the bap is wired in, perhaps the trigger wire, or which wire is being used, the type of relay setup, the bap settings, etc..

we mostly saw it on the 11-15 with the programmable boost a pumps where you could set voltage and time in, which those aren't really used any more.

i do not believe it to be a tune issue, or a "specific" kit issue, as we've seen this on all brands with mulitple tuners over the years.

and, not very common

again, i wouldn't let it sway anyone on any brand whether it's the paxton / vortech or not.

we have self installed at the shop probably 50 of these kits and "NEVER" ran into this issue on a kit we have personally installed. whether lund tuned it or tuned by someone else

we have probably 400+ more on the road, just us, without an issue

I have completely disconnected the JMS FuelMax from the car and it still did it..

 

[15gtRob]

I have a NOVI2200 with ID1000s Remote Tuned by Lund. I don't have a long start issue but I have noticed maybe an additional 1-2 seconds are needed for it to fire.

 

[Jeff_oddo]

I have a NOVI2200 with ID1000s Remote Tuned by Lund. I don't have a long start issue but I have noticed maybe an additional 1-2 seconds are needed for it to fire.

That's what I'm referring to.... Watch my video I posted at the beginning of this thread.

 

[15gtRob]

That's what I'm referring to.... Watch my video I posted at the beginning of this thread.

Sorry I was at work had to watch it on my phone. Mine does not take that long. That's 2-3 times longer than any start up I've had cold or hot.

 

[sigintel]

Ill side with Beef; Yea. I was just going for the start and idle. Yes, it could be really bad if he inadvertently revved it on wrong tune or put it in gear and floored it. The ECM willll prolly compensate -especially just to idle. But, it will be ragged edge and way off if he then twiddles with throttle after the start or puts it in gear. I should not suggest this to someone I do not know. Stock tune on ID1XXX may be way rich.

Worse test would be current tune with stock injectors cause hed be way lean...

Other thoughts? Leak in fuel rail allowing drain back to tank? Cracked pump housing fitting or cracked or foreign object in pump check valve?

Wait, from your video its hard to tell are any cylinders firing during crank or all dead?
How is this not vapor in fuel system?

Is it possible ANY of the teflon tape you used on fuel rails was wrapped on threads in a way it could get into rails or injector?

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