Livernois Tuning Solution

[Mpower22]

Forgive the question new to the forum. Can someone explain to me to functionality difference between the Livernois tuning solution and cob AP?

1. I assume you can switch maps back to stock and take the car in for service.

2. Is the Livernois solution tied to one particular car/ecu? I'm leasing my EB and would love to "unmarry" this at the end of the lease and sell it to someone else ala accessport.


Thanks for your help

Matt

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[EcoSwag1990]

You can return to stock with both devices and both will be married to the car and can be unmarried when you sell the car.

The livernois tuner just doesnt have on the fly map switching

 

[wireless]

You cannot datalog with the Livernois tuner.
You cannot view a lot of active parameters with the Livernois tuner.

 

[Juben]

Here's something else to consider since you mentioned selling it to someone else. With the AP, once it's unmarried someone else can directly use it on another EBM without cost whereas Livernois charges something like $250 to re-license their tuner. The reason I mention that is because you'd have to sell it cheap enough for someone to still pay the $250 and come out with a good deal. People won't pay $400 for it and then have to pay another $250 to have it re-licensed (for $650 total) when they can buy new for $600.

That's something to consider. Although I completely understand their business reasons for doing it, it hurts the resell value on the units.

 

[Debbie@WMS]

We could help you with an SCT X4 tuner which can easily be unmarried and resold for a good fair market price. Or you can also search classified for a used x3 and us that as well.

Either route you choose we would be glad to assist you.

I'm here all day, everyday.

Debbie
410-552-1074
www.woodbinemotorsports.com

 

[MAPerformance]

Here's something else to consider since you mentioned selling it to someone else. With the AP, once it's unmarried someone else can directly use it on another EBM without cost whereas Livernois charges something like $250 to re-license their tuner. The reason I mention that is because you'd have to sell it cheap enough for someone to still pay the $250 and come out with a good deal. People won't pay $400 for it and then have to pay another $250 to have it re-licensed (for $650 total) when they can buy new for $600.

That's something to consider. Although I completely understand their business reasons for doing it, it hurts the resell value on the units.

Good info, I had no idea.

 

[Mpower22]

Here's something else to consider since you mentioned selling it to someone else. With the AP, once it's unmarried someone else can directly use it on another EBM without cost whereas Livernois charges something like $250 to re-license their tuner. The reason I mention that is because you'd have to sell it cheap enough for someone to still pay the $250 and come out with a good deal. People won't pay $400 for it and then have to pay another $250 to have it re-licensed (for $650 total) when they can buy new for $600.

That's something to consider. Although I completely understand their business reasons for doing it, it hurts the resell value on the units.

Exactly the considerations I was looking for.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Forgive the question new to the forum. Can someone explain to me to functionality difference between the Livernois tuning solution and cob AP?

1. I assume you can switch maps back to stock and take the car in for service.

2. Is the Livernois solution tied to one particular car/ecu? I'm leasing my EB and would love to "unmarry" this at the end of the lease and sell it to someone else ala accessport.


Thanks for your help

Matt

Hey Matt,

Firstly, NOBODY does or has done as more EcoBoost custom tuning than we do. We have even gone as far as to invest into engineering our own tuning software and hardware in house. We by far have more access to the more than 17k tables that exist in the EcoBoost ECU. We are actually using our own tuning software, without the aid of a 3rd party company. We FULLY understand the logic of the platform as a whole, and that is why we are ALWAYS the first to market with tuning.


Cobb is a hardware company, that is a huge difference. We built our own exclusive tuning software. Function over form. It is no secret that datalogging on the EcoBoost platform because it is a torque management based turbo system is not accurate. Simply put, the signal that is sent from the ECU to the motor is NOT read at the same PID (or interval).

For arguments sake, let's just say that the ECU sends a signal to the engine every 20ms. The engine is doing what it is told on schedule, but the OBDii port is only able to sample what the motor is doing once every 120ms. There are 6 separate commands that are not logged by your device. So if you were looking to tune from that info there is not enough accurate info to base your tune off of. Again, that is just an example, for illustration purposes.

The biggest need of a tuner for a client to log is because they do not own the car that they are tuning. We do not require our clients to log because we own the cars that we tune. We do not need a log to use as a reference point.

 

[BigCatDan]

Hey Matt,

Firstly, NOBODY does or has done as more EcoBoost custom tuning than we do. We have even gone as far as to invest into engineering our own tuning software and hardware in house. We by far have more access to the more than 17k tables that exist in the EcoBoost ECU. We are actually using our own tuning software, without the aid of a 3rd party company. We FULLY understand the logic of the platform as a whole, and that is why we are ALWAYS the first to market with tuning.


Cobb is a hardware company, that is a huge difference. We built our own exclusive tuning software. Function over form. It is no secret that datalogging on the EcoBoost platform because it is a torque management based turbo system is not accurate. Simply put, the signal that is sent from the ECU to the motor is NOT read at the same PID (or interval).

For arguments sake, let's just say that the ECU sends a signal to the engine every 20ms. The engine is doing what it is told on schedule, but the OBDii port is only able to sample what the motor is doing once every 120ms. There are 6 separate commands that are not logged by your device. So if you were looking to tune from that info there is not enough accurate info to base your tune off of. Again, that is just an example, for illustration purposes.

The biggest need of a tuner for a client to log is because they do not own the car that they are tuning. We do not require our clients to log because we own the cars that we tune. We do not need a log to use as a reference point.

Jaimie, Matt. It is my opinion that for the best tune overall, Livernois and Jamie are correct. Imho from what I have seen and heard, Livernois custom tunes have shown to be the best (in terms of HP/TQ), in many of my readings. However to get the best tune, you would want to bring it to them in Michigan. If I lived near there I def would! Their ots tune seems good also.

On the other hand MAP is using the Cobb AP for their test Ecoboost and the numbers they are showing are very good if you use their CAI/DP/Catback and their map for Cobb. Imho the quality of the MAP hardware is excellent. Doing so would give you the added advantage of the COBB AP features. Now is what MAP is doing as good as what you could get with Livernois? Well I can't say for sure, but It seem fairly close. Maybe someone else can chime in with even more expertise.

 

[Mpower22]

Hey Matt,

Firstly, NOBODY does or has done as more EcoBoost custom tuning than we do. We have even gone as far as to invest into engineering our own tuning software and hardware in house. We by far have more access to the more than 17k tables that exist in the EcoBoost ECU. We are actually using our own tuning software, without the aid of a 3rd party company. We FULLY understand the logic of the platform as a whole, and that is why we are ALWAYS the first to market with tuning.


Cobb is a hardware company, that is a huge difference. We built our own exclusive tuning software. Function over form. It is no secret that datalogging on the EcoBoost platform because it is a torque management based turbo system is not accurate. Simply put, the signal that is sent from the ECU to the motor is NOT read at the same PID (or interval).

For arguments sake, let's just say that the ECU sends a signal to the engine every 20ms. The engine is doing what it is told on schedule, but the OBDii port is only able to sample what the motor is doing once every 120ms. There are 6 separate commands that are not logged by your device. So if you were looking to tune from that info there is not enough accurate info to base your tune off of. Again, that is just an example, for illustration purposes.

The biggest need of a tuner for a client to log is because they do not own the car that they are tuning. We do not require our clients to log because we own the cars that we tune. We do not need a log to use as a reference point.

Can you post some STOCK CAR TUNE ONLY Dyno's on 93? Or PM me if needed. Thanks!

 

[EcoSwag1990]

They are on their website where you buy the tuner

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/2015%2b-Mustang-2.3-Ecoboost-Tuner.html

 

[Mpower22]

They are on their website where you buy the tuner

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/2015%2b-Mustang-2.3-Ecoboost-Tuner.html

Got it, one example would like to see a few....

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I would like to see one with their exhaust and CAI actually.

A. because it'd be a good indicator of what I would see
B. because it'd be a fair comparison to the MAP package

 

[Ylow281]

Livernois, when will your stage 2 tune be available? Any details on HP/TQ and what the price will be?

thanks

 

[LeonBorden]

Hey Matt,

Firstly, NOBODY does or has done as more EcoBoost custom tuning than we do. We have even gone as far as to invest into engineering our own tuning software and hardware in house. We by far have more access to the more than 17k tables that exist in the EcoBoost ECU. We are actually using our own tuning software, without the aid of a 3rd party company. We FULLY understand the logic of the platform as a whole, and that is why we are ALWAYS the first to market with tuning.


Cobb is a hardware company, that is a huge difference. We built our own exclusive tuning software. Function over form. It is no secret that datalogging on the EcoBoost platform because it is a torque management based turbo system is not accurate. Simply put, the signal that is sent from the ECU to the motor is NOT read at the same PID (or interval).

For arguments sake, let's just say that the ECU sends a signal to the engine every 20ms. The engine is doing what it is told on schedule, but the OBDii port is only able to sample what the motor is doing once every 120ms. There are 6 separate commands that are not logged by your device. So if you were looking to tune from that info there is not enough accurate info to base your tune off of. Again, that is just an example, for illustration purposes.

The biggest need of a tuner for a client to log is because they do not own the car that they are tuning. We do not require our clients to log because we own the cars that we tune. We do not need a log to use as a reference point.

Or because they don't have the same mods as the client. What happens when people start throwing bigger turbos on these cars? What about customers with mix matched products on their car that can slightly affect the tune? Sure maybe not by much, but I think it's hard to argue that data logging is useless, when even the slightest bit of fine tuning is better than nothing.

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